Totally Wicked USA - off on the wrong foot?

[Kate]

Any idea of what makes some eliquid go green Pillbox?

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...on/5076-generic-juice-also-turning-green.html

 

[pillbox38]

Hi Kate...No i hadnt seen that thread till you highlighted it.. Looks pretty grim though.

I cant imagine its anything to do with glass bottles, i would expect less reaction from glass than any other type of container.

 

[Kate]

Yeah, I was under the impression that glass was safer than plastic.

We've had all sorts of speculation around here about the new hulk liquid that's turning up. Yours is nothing compared with the number of green and sludgy Johnson Creek cases.

 

[pillbox38]

Kate did i misread the thread??

Is that green from a bottle of wicked????

 

[Kate]

Betty called it generic from Jason.

I didn't want to ask specific questions about Wicked in case the association stuck.

 

[pillbox38]

I think she is then talking about the Electronic Cig companies fluid. This comes in plastic bottles with orange caps. I will contact her to find out...From a different source might i add...

 

[Ripley]

Patti - I'm sorry. I didn't really mean to be rash in my statement. I suppose it is hard to know the situation between you and the customer, Ripley.

I did found this on the TW site however and hopefully this was followed:

Where the Goods ordered by the Buyer are not available from stock the Buyer shall be notified and given the option to either wait until the Goods are available from stock or cancel the order and receive a full refund within 30 days.


I believe if Ripley was given this option, they really have no right to complain...it just didn't seem that the above occured.


Foxy

Foxy, it didn't. I made the purchase from the USA site with the expectation that it would be shipped from the USA. Nowhere on the website (at the time I ordered), nor in any confirmation email, or dispatch notification was I given the option to cancel my order, or informed that it was being shipped from UK.

I feel like a broken record. If I'd wanted to wait a month for my order to arrive from the UK, I would have ordered from the UK site. My main complaint is that I was not given the choice. It's my money, it should be my decision about how long I'll wait for my goods to be delivered.

IMO, in-stock in the USA is not the same as in-stock in the UK, especially when the difference is in delivery days versus weeks.

 

[usehername]

I take onboard some of the concerns raised here and agree the situation isn’t ideal, however what I feel some customers are forgetting is that we have just had two weeks of broken shipping and deliveries over the xmas and new year period.


I>E A USA customer places an order on 19th this cannot be packed and shipped till Monday 22nd, royal mail collect. But nothing is then actioned till the 29th. It arrives in the states on the 31st, then another break and the postal services there same as here have a backlog. Still not delivered on the 7th.

This does not mean it wasn’t shipped ASAP from here, it was.

Regarding stock in America, Patti holds virtually all the 30ml bottles listed, but only super kits, a customer might buy two 30ml fluids she has in stock and an atomiser she hasn’t, so I ship from here.

As from next week she will have all kits, cartridges, atomisers, chargers, cases etc in Florida. I will then remove all the 20mls and the 30mls she doesn’t have and she can action every order within 24 hours.

One last point, the reason I gave the green light to open the USA site was in fact not solely for USA customers, but it was because i had been instructed to remove fluids from my UK site.

I opened the DOT COM site as a fully stocked site so British and European customers could still get their supplies.

Suggestions that I am taking money but have no stock to ship are a nonsense. I never list anything I don’t hold in stock and remove goods as stock runs out and i am awaiting orders.

I was also in China over the Xmas break making sure the fluids were produced in correct and safe packaging, are other sellers doing this??

I have no idea?

Do I charge too much??

I believe not...

At least I know my fluid is clean and have seen where it is produced...

The only other seller I know that can claim this is Johnston’s creek who for what its worth I believe has a great product and serves the e.cig community with integrity.

WOW!!
That is not even close to the way I thought you would handle this. I honestly thought that when you responded you would graciously just make this go away. Your company is doing so well that you can afford to make a trip to China and you cant fix a 60 dollar disgrunted customer? Did you actually state that you opened the US site prematurely to service your UK customers? That is not the way to start service here.

 

[Zach]

12 year old Oban comes from the same place as 3 year old Crown Royal. I haven't tried TW, so I'm not saying is IS good enough to be worth the difference, but saying it comes from the same place is a pretty shallow reason to reject the idea.

Leaford, i disagree with you. The e-liquid market is a lot different than the whiskey market.
I am sure you will agree with me when i say that most liquid that comes out of china is quite similar. I've tried several varieties from different us distrbutors and mostly, the apple tastes like fake apple, the cherry tastes like fake cherry, and the tobacco doesn't taste like a real cigarette.

The only juices that seems substantially different are johnsons creek, and (i would assume, i haven't tried it) freesmoke. I don't necessarily think johnsons creek is superior, but it's different than chinese e-liquid.

Now, given that most liquid that comes out of china (imo) tastes pretty much similar to other liquid that comes out of china, and jasons liquid comes from china, how can you justify spending $10 more for what amounts to the same product?

I will agree with kate that the testing is valuable but i am still not convinced wicked/pillbox liquid is significantly different enough from the liquid i use (either janty or puresmoker, you must admit these are high quality liquids with great flavors) to justify a 33% increase in price on the same volume, no ability to buy a 10ml or sampler, and no ability to buy a larger amount of juice (like a 50ml).

I appreciate what Jason has done with the lab testing, but imo that is something any supplier of Jasons size can look at as an investment in his business. It shouldn't be used as leverage to jack prices up and remove valuable freedoms from consumers, the ability to try 10ml liquid and not have to buy another 10ml of a liquid you might not like, and at great expense, for instance.

Basically i understand why you see it this way, but i think your comparison is a real stretch until we see some significant differences in the liquids from china.

edit: also i would like to say any shipping problems, i don't see a problem with. It's the holidays and there are customs backups on these things. I have problems with other business practices of totally wicked. You can't blame them for shipping problems.

 

[GabbyD]

The shipping issues aren't a problem IF a customer in the U.S. knows it might be weeks. Imagine running out of cigarettes and heading for the corner store and they take your money and they'll call you when they come in, maybe a few weeks from now. That just doesn't work for a lot of us. I know I operate on a tight budget and my e-cig expenditures far outweigh my real cig savings thus far. I just don't have $60 to put on juice for a few weeks from now and I'm sure I'm not alone in that.

That said, I'm still interested in trying the TW juice and I'm sure I will someday when some of these kinks are worked out and maybe I have some tax refund money to lay out in advance of when I need some liquid. I just want to know that's the case before I order. That's all. I've considered buying some things from China but it's the same deal. I need spare atomizers now, not in a few weeks, so I've stuck with local suppliers. No big deal, just a choice to make.

 

[Sachiko]

you are the first i'm reading not beeing happy with pillbox juice...
is it really the juice or all the other things that made you unhappy?

It's the eliquid, I dont/didnt mind that it was shipped from the UK or waiting for it to arrive.

Flavor just wasn't as strong as Cash's or Jane's. Its still vapable, I would just want the stronger flavor.

I wouldn't mind paying the higher price if I liked the flavors. I probably wouldn't pay the price to try all their different flavors unless it was cheaper, or sample bottles.

 

[deewal]

WOW!!
That is not even close to the way I thought you would handle this. I honestly thought that when you responded you would graciously just make this go away. Your company is doing so well that you can afford to make a trip to China and you cant fix a 60 dollar disgrunted customer? Did you actually state that you opened the US site prematurely to service your UK customers? That is not the way to start service here.

I for one am quite happy that my supplier has put his hand in his pocket and been to see and examine the Source of the Liquid for himself so that he is sure that it's not being made in a bathtub and is fit for human consumption. I'm also very happy that he has spent a hell of a lot of money having the liquid analysed and has all the ingredients and amounts written on Labels that comply with the demands of the Trading Standards in this country. He has bent over backwards to Comply with their demands as if he had not he would have been forced to have stopped trading and would then have been the first Domino to fall in the UK with rest falling shortly after.
He has not only been protecting his own business but trying to fight on behalf of all UK sellers (who have stood by and let him) and us his customers.
He has been under a hell of a lot of Pressure and Stress this last six weeks or so although he himself would not use that as any excuse.
I do not like to see an honest man being defamed because of one customer's grievances. So cut him some slack.

If you don't like it then nobody is forcing you to buy it.

Also can you make me up a list of all the US Supplier's who have actually taken the time, effort and expense to actually have been to China to See what they are selling you and also has all the ingredients and amounts actually written on their bottles with with Childproof Lids and who correctly name it Liquid and not Juice ?

 

[usehername]

He has been under a hell of a lot of Pressure and Stress this last six weeks or so although he himself would not use that as any excuse.
I do not like to see an honest man being defamed because of one customer's grievances. So cut him some slack.

If you don't like it then nobody is forcing you to buy it.

Also can you make me up a list of all the US Supplier's who have actually taken the time, effort and expense to actually have been to China to See what they are selling you and also has all the ingredients and amounts actually written on their bottles with with Childproof Lids and who correctly name it Liquid and not Juice ?

If you had read the beginning of this thread you would notice that I was not defaming anyone. I was "cutting him some slack" I was simply very surprised to hear a public response so brazen. I have been a self employed contractor for 27 years. And I got some news for you. The U.S. economy aint so good right now. I have gotten two new customers in the last 6 months. If it were not for my repeat past customer's I would be smoking corn silk instead of E-liquid. Some of those customers were not easy to deal with. Pleasing them sometimes cost me some money. But they call me back and they tell other's how they were treated. Especially when things go a bit wrong. It is how you handle the problems that make you a hero. Even when you believe they are not your problem. Sorry that is not how I would have handled this.....

 

[Ripley]

If you had read the beginning of this thread you would notice that I was not defaming anyone. I was "cutting him some slack" I was simply very surprised to hear a public response so brazen. I have been a self employed contractor for 27 years. And I got some news for you. The U.S. economy aint so good right now. I have gotten two new customers in the last 6 months. If it were not for my repeat past customer's I would be smoking corn silk instead of E-liquid. Some of those customers were not easy to deal with. Pleasing them sometimes cost me some money. But they call me back and they tell other's how they were treated. Especially when things go a bit wrong. It is how you handle the problems that make you a hero. Even when you believe they are not your problem. Sorry that is not how I would have handled this.....

Usehername, I completely agree. In fact, all of the other USA suppliers I've dealt with have been a complete pleasure. I've read the excuses, and there's been much dancing around the issue. Not once has there been an attempt to resolve it, or see if there is some way to make it right. If TW has enough customers that he can do with one less, then oh well. I'll spend my hard earned dollars elsewhere, as I have many other options and would rather spend it where it's appreciated.

 

[slianfoxob]

A quick note on the unresolved situation with Ripley.

From Allbusiness.com:

First, remember Customer Service Rule 1: “The customer
is always right.” Second, remember Customer Service Rule 2: “When the customer is wrong, refer to Rule 1.”

Most people are not out to take advantage of retailers. If the customer believes he or she has a legitimate complaint, it is a legitimate complaint. Perception is reality.

Never say anything that might make an upset customer feel defensive, such as “That’s not the way you bought this piece,” “It’s obvious that you’re very rough on jewelry,” or “That isn’t covered by the manufacturer’s warranty.”

First, remember Customer Service Rule 1: “The customer
is always right.” Second, remember Customer Service Rule 2: “When the customer is wrong, refer to Rule 1.”

Most people are not out to take advantage of retailers. If the customer believes he or she has a legitimate complaint, it is a legitimate complaint. Perception is reality.

Never say anything that might make an upset customer feel defensive, such as “That’s not the way you bought this piece,” “It’s obvious that you’re very rough on jewelry,” or “That isn’t covered by the manufacturer’s warranty.”

Instead, let the customer know you want to take care of the situation. Do that by asking this key question: “What can we do to make this right for you?”

From me: I've always been taught in business that happy customers are your best advertising and upset customers are your worst nightmare. Your upset customers will cost you some time and money to bring them to that happy place but if you don't take care of them they may cost you your business. My best example from my own industry: Hair. If someone has a great experience in my chair, they may tell a few friends (maybe) but if they get a bad haircut with rude service, I just lost at least 10-20 new customers.

I will try to gracefully remove myself from this thread now. Hopefully this all gets resolved soon.


Foxy

 

[Ab]

I think the problem with this thread is that a couple of the arguments that were not part of the original post have been brought in, with the original post being that American orders were not arriving quick enough. I think the price of the liquid along with flavours probably belong in a different thread.

With regards the plastic bottles and screw off lids, I think in a few months time people will be looking back and saying 'how did we get away with selling nicotine fluid like this and for so long?'. The totally wicked liquid is sold as a premium liquid, in glass bottles that are clearly labelled and soon to have child proof caps that conform to UK/European laws. I believe also that Jason sells other liquids through his sister site that are priced a lot cheaper.

There are a few threads on the wicked forum about why there are no sample bottles for the wicked fluid. Probably 1 in 3 requests from customers are for a sample pack and I know this is something that Jason is looking in to but with the wicked fluids it isn't as simple as decanting 20 flavours in to 5ml bottles. Well, it could be as simple as that but that method doesn't really fit in with the Wicked ethos. The Wicked model might not be for every one, but I think pretty soon a lot of the standards that Jason works to will be common place for liquid sellers, well those that want to operate above the law.

 

[Ab]

Above the law? Sounds like judge dread. I did mean inside the law (couldn't find the edit button).

 

[Zach]

I'll probably still buy a bottle of totally wicked, just to see how it is. If it's worth the money i would continue buying it.

 

[leaford]

Leaford, i disagree with you. Now, given that most liquid that comes out of china (imo) tastes pretty much similar to other liquid that comes out of china, and jasons liquid comes from china, how can you justify spending $10 more for what amounts to the same product?

Simple, because most of us already are. Look, you can get the botom line e-liquid from E-cig.com for about $12 for 30ml, or you can get 30ml of Jane's Kick Juice for about $18. Puresmoker is $20 for 30ml of the Pure Juice, or $30 for the Cash juice, and Janty is about $33 for 30ml. So right there you have a variety of different qualities and prices. And we all make our choices between them.

I don't see how TW is overpriced at $30, but Janty and Puresmoker aren't, and I disagree that they are all the same product any more than Coke and Pepsi are. Or Oban and Crown Royal. Or a Crown7 and a Sedansa.

 

[slianfoxob]

I think the price can best be equated to what Kate had said - you are paying for the testing and safety of TW liquid.

I haven't dealt with either Janty or Puresmoker but from what I can tell Steve only charges 20 bucks for 30 ml.. I'm not sure about Janty, they only 10.95 for 10 ml. listed so $30 dollars may be right for them as well.

Like you said Leaford, I think everyone will pick and choose and find the best liquid and price for them.


Foxy