Trolls...?

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patkin

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After hanging around here for the better part of a year, in my opinion we don't have much to worry about in terms of planted trolls. The vast majority of ECF'ers are adamant about people not getting addicted to nicotine through vaping, so that seems to be taken care of.

Having said that, here we are extolling everything about the vaping experience for ex-smokers with for the most part no thought to vape reduction, nic reduction or quitting. People vape 10 ml a day and we think that's cool. Mailman stalking and buying every new toy as soon as it hits the market is accepted as normal to us. Seems to me that for someone looking in from the outside, we have already given them enough. Not trying to stir the pot, just saying ...

Ever watch Steeljan videos? Not everyone who vapes 10mls is vaping nicotine and I've seen a greater number of posts by those stepping down than I have from those who started and stayed at the same nic levels. In fact, there are whole threads sharing stepdown tips. Just sayin... not everyone here is vaping nic. I will continue vaping for reasons other than nic. I'm diabetic and I have to pass on desert but I can vape it is just one reason. And what's the difference between buying too many pairs of shoes or purses and a new setup? Ever been to any of the hobby forums? Yeh, just sayin.....
 

Ryedan

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What I disagree with is this:

"... here we are extolling everything about the vaping experience for ex-smokers with for the most part no thought to vape reduction, nic reduction or quitting. People vape 10 ml a day and we think that's cool. Mailman stalking and buying every new toy as soon as it hits the market is accepted as normal to us. Seems to me that for someone looking in from the outside, we have already given them enough. Not trying to stir the pot, just saying ... "

Vaping is Not a Nicotine Cessation Tool. Vaping is a Tobacco Harm Reduction/ Smoking Alternative.

There is no information on ECF that is not available elsewhere, I would imagine if Trolls were to look for Ammo they could just as easily Troll other Forums too, some of those forums don't have Rules and lots of expletives that would in many cases help a Trolls Cause rather than here where at least we have some minor semblance of rational thought.

I hear ya meli. and I agree with you for the most part. I started vaping in April and have been off cigs since. Could not have done that any other way. I know that because I tried and failed. I shout the benefits of vaping for smokers to anyone I think might benefit. I have one convert so far. OTOH, I'm sorry, but no-one can define what vaping is for me. That is up to me to decide and I think it's that way for everyone. The FDA, Health Canada, BP, BT and other people might disagree with me here, but for me they don't count on this one.

My post was to the OP. I could have written it better I think now, but that's hindsight. My words you put in bold above were not meant to attack vapers, vaping or ECF'ers, or to tell anyone what they should think or do . I wrote what I thought and though I knew it would probably be controversial, I never thought it would be as negatively received as it was. Live and learn! It would be sad to think there are topics that we can not discuss on ECF, just because we don't/won't go 'there'.

Vape happy!
 
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meli.

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Oh my gosh, Bigsmke! I didn't mean to come off as Negative at all. I apologise if I made you feel that way.
I think whilst we have an issue with the FDA, ANTZ and Vape Bashers who come along with the "Quit or Die" Rhetoric it concerns me when We sometimes blur the lines and Define vaping as a Nicotine Cessation Tool. That will throw us straight into the hands of BP and they worry me more than any other group out there.
 

Ryedan

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Ever watch Steeljan videos? Not everyone who vapes 10mls is vaping nicotine and I've seen a greater number of posts by those stepping down than I have from those who started and stayed at the same nic levels. In fact, there are whole threads sharing stepdown tips. Just sayin... not everyone here is vaping nic. I will continue vaping for reasons other than nic. I'm diabetic and I have to pass on desert but I can vape it is just one reason. And what's the difference between buying too many pairs of shoes or purses and a new setup? Ever been to any of the hobby forums? Yeh, just sayin.....

I hear ya patkin. I'm not bashing vaping ... I was just talking about what outsiders might be taking away from the conversations we have between us on ECF vs the risk of danger from planted trolls here. Good to hear vaping is working out for you!
 

EddardinWinter

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Somebody's been watching too much Final Destination!x

First of all, there is no way to watch too much of any movie that stars Ali Larter.

ali-larter.jpg

Second, that is an OCD thing. If anyone is sympathetic to that, it is me. Good luck getting that thought out of your head....
 

zapped

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Like there isn't enough complaining about the 5 post rule.:p

Lol true enough but then again who really listens to them anyway or those complaining about having to get verified? I just wish there was something we could do. Its starting to interfere with helping new people out.

I dont visit the new members forums nearly as much as I used to.
 

Ryedan

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Oh my gosh, Bigsmke! I didn't mean to come off as Negative at all. I apologise if I made you feel that way.
I think whilst we have an issue with the FDA, ANTZ and Vape Bashers who come along with the "Quit or Die" Rhetoric it concerns me when We sometimes blur the lines and Define vaping as a Nicotine Cessation Tool. That will throw us straight into the hands of BP and they worry me more than any other group out there.

meli., please do not in any way feel apologetic! Your response to my post was the first that I saw as willing to discuss without 'shooting the messenger' or making me out to be some kind of antichrist to vapers :toast: and thank you very much! And I'm sorry I made you feel bad about it.

Yes, the quit or die rhetoric leaves me totally bummed out! I Smoked for over 35 years and I'm convinced I would be dead today, or very sick, if I didn't quit last year. But things are what they are and I will try to help where I can. Thanks for listening to my words and not putting words into my mouth.
 

EddardinWinter

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meli., please do not in any way feel apologetic! Your response to my post was the first that I saw as willing to discuss without 'shooting the messenger' or making me out to be some kind of antichrist to vapers :toast: and thank you very much! And I'm sorry I made you feel bad about it.

Yes, the quit or die rhetoric leaves me totally bummed out! I Smoked for over 35 years and I'm convinced I would be dead today, or very sick, if I didn't quit last year. But things are what they are and I will try to help where I can. Thanks for listening to my words and not putting words into my mouth.

Here's the thing. What makes me crazy about the "quit or die" rhetoric (and I love that description, its perfect!) is that it is unbelievably irrational. I think it has to be born of the philosophy that FUN=DEATH. If that is the case, I would rather die happy than live miserable. I try (and frequently fail) to just brush past that nonsense. But sometimes you have to refute the hogwash so that the newbys hear another perspective. When people like Zapped stop greeting newcomers, it is tragic. Stay strong and remember...

A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep.
 

Berylanna

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My post was to the OP. I could have written it better I think now, but that's hindsight. My words you put in bold above were not meant to attack vapers, vaping or ECF'ers, or to tell anyone what they should think or do . I wrote what I thought and though I knew it would probably be controversial, I never thought it would be as negatively received as it was. Live and learn! It would be sad to think there are topics that we can not discuss on ECF, just because we don't/won't go 'there'.

Vape happy!
There are a few problems with the idea that we have an obligation to cut back. Nicotine is under investigation as a very promising treatment for dementia, ADD, and other things. In the concentrations we use, it's only slightly more addictive or toxic than caffeine. Other compounds in tobacco are under investigation as anti-psychotics. And it is proven to enhance cognition for some people.

Pharmaceuticals AND cuisine AND 'sin' things have all been taken from or copied from herbal medicine until the extremely recent genetic study ability arrived, and even then, most new drugs are herbal. Even things like Tamiflu, the miraculous discovery of drugs that help against viruses....are herbal. Chinese Star Anise. (there is another Star Anise that isn't it, btw) The year of the shortages of the flu drugs was caused by a bad harvest in China. And probably almost all medicine is toxic in overdose by definition -- if it works, it is because it affects the body, which means it really is poison of a sort in carefully controlled doses. Even caffeine and alcohol and ephedra and rosemary.

And one big difference between herbalists and Western medicine is that herbalists know what Western medicine is only now very reluctantly willing to admit -- herbs often work better when you do NOT single out a single ingredient as "the active ingredient." Even vitamin C works better when part of the orange juice rind, with associated phytochemicals, are included. In other words, Orange Marmalade is the WTA of vitamin C.

Tobacco is an herb which IMO is completely legitimate to take, even for a lifetime. There have been gene studies of people who can't seem to quit smoking NO MATTER WHAT and genetic similarities have been found in those people.

The FDA has been on the warpath against herbal supplements for at least a generation. Herbalists want the FDA to treat them like food, which is allow them but disallow contaminants or mislabeling of contents. I want the same thing for the sacred herb of many East Coast Indian tribes -- tobacco.

I think pharmaceuticals are well and good, and needed. But I don't think they should be able to require a license to produce coffee, or grape seed extract, or even star anise extract, or tobacco extract. Or to tell me that I have ZERO ability to heal myself without paying an insurance company or BP.

So I'm vaping my herb because smoke inhalation is really bad, and I never ever had an intention to stop the herb, only the smoke inhalation.
 

uba egar320

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I don't want there to even be an FDA.

That wouldn't work. Love them or hate them, the market would be flooded with "cure all" meds just like in the early 20th century without the FDA. I'm not crazy about their actions against ecigs either, but they are looking out for us. Sometimes it's just in annoying ways lol
 

EddardinWinter

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That wouldn't work. Love them or hate them, the market would be flooded with "cure all" meds just like in the early 20th century without the FDA. I'm not crazy about their actions against ecigs either, but they are looking out for us. Sometimes it's just in annoying ways lol

<begin rant>

I would like an FDA, if it wasn't HEAVILY influenced by BP and other issues that have nothing to do with consumer safety. Do not kid yourself, the level of protection we receive from the FDA is not particularly strong. They regularly approve drugs due to outside pressures before proper studies have been done. How many drugs have been put on the market and then removed when the medium and long term study results come in? Yet, they selectively cite "lack of long term studies" to damn some products "unknown" safety, like they have with e-cigarettes.

They know that patches represent a very strong hazard to your skin if used in the long term. This is never mentioned by the FDA, and BP gets around mentioning it by providing instructions that do not include long-term use. Why do they not have to provide a specific warning to users like other products? Because the FDA is bought and paid for on this issue. Do your own research on any new drug or product before you take it. Do not count on these bureaucrats to protect you or your family. <end of rant>

So it's like an early spring day here in Virginia! Warm and breezy. Ah, spring will be here before we know it!
 

Worzel

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As for the trolling issue. I have a bad habit of staying off the forum for a while (life happens), jumping back in, and commenting on the last page to keep up to date. I have seen the posts in question. They start as legit questions, then the one posting keeps jumping in with gibberish. I don't know what the FDA or BT would have to gain by this. It looks to me like some kid, whose parents are out of town, overdosed on "Big Bang Theory" got jacked up on Red Bull and ran amok on the keyboard. I hate flagging people, everyone is entitled to an opinion. Probably best to just PM moderators about the posters in question. :2c:
 

uba egar320

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<begin rant>

I would like an FDA, if it wasn't HEAVILY influenced by BP and other issues that have nothing to do with consumer safety. Do not kid yourself, the level of protection we receive from the FDA is not particularly strong. They regularly approve drugs due to outside pressures before proper studies have been done. How many drugs have been put on the market and then removed when the medium and long term study results come in? Yet, they selectively cite "lack of long term studies" to damn some products "unknown" safety, like they have with e-cigarettes.

They know that patches represent a very strong hazard to your skin if used in the long term. This is never mentioned by the FDA, and BP gets around mentioning it by providing instructions that do not include long-term use. Why do they not have to provide a specific warning to users like other products? Because the FDA is bought and paid for on this issue. Do your own research on any new drug or product before you take it. Do not count on these bureaucrats to protect you or your family. <end of rant>

So it's like an early spring day here in Virginia! Warm and breezy. Ah, spring will be here before we know it!

Just a little west of you here...where they ran all the crazy Virginians off to way back when ;) and yes, it is nice out for now.

It's like I said though. No matter how one views the FDA's actions, we'd be left to big corporations looking out for our "safety"....It is what it is I guess. Perfect? No way.
 

sherid

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OK, call me paranoid but I just want to throw this out there...

Has anyone else noticed some unusual questions being asked on the forum lately? Don't get me wrong, this is an open space to ask questions and there is no such thing as a stupid question (despite what my geography teacher used to say!) but it has occurred to me that there have been more questions about non-smokers taking up vaping of late. Questions asking about whether or not vapers would encourage or discourage them, and non-smokers asking for advice.

Like I said, I may be paranoid but might there be a certain element of the 'Bigs' trying to find evidence to support negative arguments? I'll go put my tin foil hat back on now ;-) x
You are not paranoid. Trolls come and go on here all the time. Like all spies, those representing the anti-smoker/vaper side are particularly sneaky but usually quickly recognized.
 

mikejm

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That wouldn't work. Love them or hate them, the market would be flooded with "cure all" meds just like in the early 20th century without the FDA. I'm not crazy about their actions against ecigs either, but they are looking out for us. Sometimes it's just in annoying ways lol


I don't care if the market is flooded with "cure all" elixirs that don't work. It's not my problem.

Anyway, the market is already flooded with poisons. Poisons approved by the FDA. The FDA is a Nanny State agency I don't like living in a Nanny State.

In fact, you might say I utterly despise it.
 
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Hello World

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<begin rant>

I would like an FDA, if it wasn't HEAVILY influenced by BP and other issues that have nothing to do with consumer safety. Do not kid yourself, the level of protection we receive from the FDA is not particularly strong. They regularly approve drugs due to outside pressures before proper studies have been done. How many drugs have been put on the market and then removed when the medium and long term study results come in? Yet, they selectively cite "lack of long term studies" to damn some products "unknown" safety, like they have with e-cigarettes.

They know that patches represent a very strong hazard to your skin if used in the long term. This is never mentioned by the FDA, and BP gets around mentioning it by providing instructions that do not include long-term use. Why do they not have to provide a specific warning to users like other products? Because the FDA is bought and paid for on this issue. Do your own research on any new drug or product before you take it. Do not count on these bureaucrats to protect you or your family. <end of rant>

So it's like an early spring day here in Virginia! Warm and breezy. Ah, spring will be here before we know it!
FDA & BP pals certainly are a step up from the snake oil salesmen of centuries past, but still leaves a lot to be desired. Bayer (Aspirin People) developed & marketed hero*n before the turn of the 19th century for children to be treated for colds, flues, fever, etc. and the US Gov't stepped in and made it illegal/restricted as it produced over 400,000 addicts in New York alone.

Nowadays the FDA seems more corrupt and BP protectionist oriented no longer serving the public interest anymore.
 
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