Read this! Tuesday: Halo start first lawsuit against FDA, Debate in the UK House of Lords

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skoony

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The PACT act has everything to do with our situation as far as shipping goes. There is nothing in the tobacco control act that would give the FDA authority to stop shipping via USPS, or any other shipper. It is the PACT act, not the tobacco control act, that limited shipping on specific tobacco products.

Even though pipe tobacco and cigars are now deemed, it is still perfectly legal to ship with USPS, as are ecigs, and will remain so into the future unless the PACT act is amended.

Stubby is correct.

The PACT Act does not cover tobacco products in general.
It covers only the products it specifically says it covers.

It will not cover electronic cigarettes unless it is amended to add them.
I am not disputing what the PACT ACT covers. Where does it say all items not covered
cannot be prohibited by any other ACT and or authority?. Where is the authority under
the PACT ACT mandating that the ACT alone is the only definitive path to prohibiting
items to be transported via the USPS. I can't find any such mandate in the PACT ACT.
Regards
Mike
 

Stubby

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I am not disputing what the PACT ACT covers. Where does it say all items not covered
cannot be prohibited by any other ACT and or authority?. Where is the authority under
the PACT ACT mandating that the ACT alone is the only definitive path to prohibiting
items to be transported via the USPS. I can't find any such mandate in the PACT ACT.
Regards
Mike
I will repeat myself. There is nothing in the tobacco control act that would give the FDA authority to limit shipping. Of course some other law could be created to limit shipping, but as of today that doesn't exist.
 

skoony

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I will repeat myself. There is nothing in the tobacco control act that would give the FDA authority to limit shipping. Of course some other law could be created to limit shipping, but as of today that doesn't exist.
I have never said other wise. What I have said is the PACT ACT wouldn't
stop further limitations enacted by regulatory authority or new regulations.
I think this distinction is important. The deeming reg.'s as written seem to imply
the FDA has quite a bit of discretion concerning what they can do and how far
they can expand their authority. All that is needed is for them to shoe horn a definition
that would fall under its scope. The health safety and the protect the chillin' clause
gives them a mighty big shoe horn.

This time last year people were pretty much telling me what the FDA could do
or not do in the released regs. I said it would be the whole nine yards. The tanks,
wicks,juice,batteries,drip tips etc.. ,(zero nic is gone as soon as they ok a vaping
device as meeting the criteria of a compliant product). Any thing used or can reasonably
be expected to be used with a tobacco product as described in section bla-bla would
be considered a tobacco product and subject to the provisions of the deeming regulations.
This means zero nic would have to be covered. This means nic base woud be covered
as it would be reasonably expected to be used in a approved product.
Regards
Mike
 

DaveOno

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DaveOno

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Also nice that these foreign manufacturers are in the fight. Although the USA is under 5% of the world's population, we are the big tech consumers. And if these regs become law, I could see other countries "following the leader."

Question: is Sony concerned as their 18650 battery will be under the regs? Or was that on the market pre-2007?
 
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440BB

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Kind of ironic that the Chinese manufacturers are concerned about our safety after August 8 because they can't patch mistakes on things they already sold. Too bad that wasn't on their minds a bit more before shipping them out in the first place.

Of course this future fix concern may also be due to them rushing many new, not ready for prime time products to market just before August 8.
 

Robino1

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Kind of ironic that the Chinese manufacturers are concerned about our safety after August 8 because they can't patch mistakes on things they already sold. Too bad that wasn't on their minds a bit more before shipping them out in the first place.

Of course this future fix concern may also be due to them rushing many new, not ready for prime time products to market just before August 8.
They made a lot of money on US vapers. I honestly think that the USA has more vapers spending on their products than a lot of the other countries.
 
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Robino1

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Question: is Sony concerned as their 18650 battery will be under the regs? Or was that on the market pre-2007?

Sony's official stance is their batteries are not to be used for vaping. They've even sent out letters reiterating this fact.

I agree with Retired. Sony put out a statement long before the actual deeming came out that pretty much covered their behinds when all the bad battery stuff came out.

I don't believe that Sony will have to apply for a PMTA.

Remember also, the FDA has stated that the best type of ecigarette that stands a chance is a all in one system that cannot be tampered with. The certainly diminishes the usability of Sony type batteries.
 

Paradicio

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All I know is that I'm seeing CASAA and other groups talking about doing something. Nicopure is actually doing something. I'm not sure what the other orgs have up their sleeve, but it is nice to see some action.

I'll continue to support both, but I sincerely hope someone can get some brakes on this train wreck before August.
 

synergis7

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And news that Nicopure Brands (Halo) are the first out of the door with a lawsuit against the FDA: Nicopure Labs Challenges the FDA’s Deeming Rule - Nicopure Labs LLC.

fist-150x150.jpg
 

DaveOno

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Any idea on when we might hear something regarding the lawsuit? I'm not too familiar with lawsuits in federal courts...
That's not a bad thing, believe me.

I googled Nicopure labs v FDA. Looking for "docket".

Not sure about this site, but it gives the recorded actions..
Tobacco On Trial » Blog Archive » DOCKET for NICOPURE LABS, LLC v. FDA et al, May 10-11, 2016
Found that a judge was assigned 5/10, Judge Amy Berman Jackson, and summons were sent on 5/12

05/12/2016 5 SUMMONS (5) Issued Electronically as to SYLVIA MATHEWS BURWELL, ROBERT CALIFF, FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION, U.S. Attorney and U.S. Attorney General (Attachment: # 1 Consent Forms)(jd) (Entered: 05/12/2016)
 
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Paradicio

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That's not a bad thing, believe me.

I googled Nicopure labs v FDA. Looking for "docket".

Not sure about this site, but it gives the recorded actions..
Tobacco On Trial » Blog Archive » DOCKET for NICOPURE LABS, LLC v. FDA et al, May 10-11, 2016
Found that a judge was assigned 5/10, Judge Amy Berman Jackson, and summons were sent on 5/12

05/12/2016 5 SUMMONS (5) Issued Electronically as to SYLVIA MATHEWS BURWELL, ROBERT CALIFF, FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION, U.S. Attorney and U.S. Attorney General (Attachment: # 1 Consent Forms)(jd) (Entered: 05/12/2016)
Nice Googling DaveOno! I tried looking for updates but wasn't able to find anything myself. We'll have to keep our eyes on this and hope they get that injunction.
 
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DaveOno

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"We.."

Meaning every single vendor, manufacturer, vaper and smoker.

Actually, this affects everyone. The FDA is about to ban the sale and promotion of vaping, while allowing the sale of deadly cigarettes.

Let's not forget, in the time it takes you to read this message, another American has died from smoking or second hand smoke. In this country, every 65 seconds.

As I am posting this about 10:40 AM, there have been 540 deaths today. In this country, which has less than 5% of the World's population.
 
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