Read this! Tuesday: Halo start first lawsuit against FDA, Debate in the UK House of Lords

[SilverBear]

Yes, (armed with no facts as usual ), I suspect there was another issue. Can't picture any CC company refusing to take one's money when it's still quite permissible to do so.

Well, here:
PART 8 -The Official MyVapeJuice Family Room (Crazy Chit Chat Thread - Live LAUGH Love and Vape)

 

[SilverBear]

I'll just throw this out there... why not?...

If vape stuff is (now) being considered tobacco products, how long before USPS,
UPS, FedEx, DHL and the rest stop delivering packages? In NY, at least, NONE
of them will handle cigarette deliveries. None. That would also shut down
packages from China, I would imagine.

 

[DebbieNY]

I'll just throw this out there... why not?...

If vape stuff is (now) being considered tobacco products, how long before USPS,
UPS, FedEx, DHL and the rest stop delivering packages? In NY, at least, NONE
of them will handle cigarette deliveries. None. That would also shut down
packages from China, I would imagine.

...But we'll be able to buy 'cancer sticks' over the counter!

 

[SilverBear]

...But we'll be able to buy 'cancer sticks' over the counter!

Yep! And with a credit card!!!

It's insane. It makes no sense.

Oooops... "Big Tobacco" yells loudly.

 

[DebbieNY]

Yep, no sense (cents), but lots of dollars to BT, BP, and the FDA!!!

 

[Jumpin' In...]

I'll just throw this out there... why not?...

If vape stuff is (now) being considered tobacco products, how long before USPS,
UPS, FedEx, DHL and the rest stop delivering packages? In NY, at least, NONE
of them will handle cigarette deliveries. None. That would also shut down
packages from China, I would imagine.

Yes. I worry about that - especially since I'm in Hawaii.

 

[puffon]

Just got e-mail back from myvapejuice.com
CC will work until tonight...
Placed a large order.

 

[Gene V]

I'll just throw this out there... why not?...

If vape stuff is (now) being considered tobacco products, how long before USPS,
UPS, FedEx, DHL and the rest stop delivering packages? In NY, at least, NONE
of them will handle cigarette deliveries. None. That would also shut down
packages from China, I would imagine.

I don't see a problem the carriers shipping your juice (if such available) No one can identify what such liquid really is. USPS already prohibits shipping liquids or perishable goods. Yet everyone is using them. It will not be possible for anyone to screen every package. Some time back I bought a BB gun over eBay. I am in NYC and it was shipped to me via USPS

 

[Richriv]

I've done a search for the article, but it keeps linking to the Forbes site, which I can't access due to my pop-up blocker. The titles alone have me intrigued!

Article text.

The FDA's Deadly Censorship Of Lifesaving E-Cigarette Information

The e-cigarette regulations that the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) unveiled last week pose a grave threat to products that have the potential to dramatically reduce smoking-related disease and death. The most obvious problem for the e-cigarette industry is that manufacturers of vaping equipment and e-liquids must persuade the FDA that allowing their products to remain on the market is "appropriate for the protection of public health"-a challenge that will be prohibitively expensive for all but the biggest companies and may prove impossible even for them. A lawsuit filed this week by Nicopure Labs, which sells e-liquids and vaping hardware, highlights another troubling aspect of the FDA's regulations: censorship of potentially lifesaving information about e-cigarettes.
Even if a few companies survive the shakeout caused by the FDA's onerous regulations, they will not be allowed to tell consumers the truth about their products. According to the FDA, any intimation that noncombustible, tobacco-free e-cigarettes are safer than the conventional, tobacco-burning kind-which they indisputably are-transforms them into "modified risk tobacco products," which can be marketed only with prior approval. To get the FDA's permission, an applicant must demonstrate that its product will not only "significantly reduce harm and the risk of tobacco-related disease to individual tobacco users" but also "benefit the health of the population as a whole, taking into account both users of tobacco products and persons who do not currently use tobacco products."

<Snip by Moderator>

Forum Rules
7. Copyright
a. Do not post articles in their entirety that are published elsewhere. This is breach of copyright.
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Link to article:
The FDA's Deadly Censorship Of Lifesaving E-Cigarette Information



I cover the war on drugs from a conscientious objector's perspective

 

[SilverBear]

... No one can identify what such liquid really is.

But they are quite able to identify the sender. And that is all it takes.

Only saying.

 

[Jumpin' In...]

I don't see a problem the carriers shipping your juice (if such available) No one can identify what such liquid really is. USPS already prohibits shipping liquids or perishable goods. Yet everyone is using them. It will not be possible for anyone to screen every package. Some time back I bought a BB gun over eBay. I am in NYC and it was shipped to me via USPS

That assumes that the shipper is willing to not follow USPS regs. I don't know if it's true, but I read somewhere that the USPS has a policy of not delivering "tobacco products". If all vape gear and liquids are now "tobacco products"...

On the other hand, I think earlier in this thread someone said that "tobacco products" must be labeled as such - and so could presumably be shipped - so I dunno.

Still, I'm worried about the situation.

 

[skoony]

I don't know if it's true, but I read somewhere that the USPS has a policy of not delivering "tobacco products".

To the best of my knowledge the USPS will not knowingly deliver anything if restrictions
apply. The deeming regs are not final for 2 years.
mike

 

[crxess]

Yes, (armed with no facts as usual ), I suspect there was another issue. Can't picture any CC company refusing to take one's money when it's still quite permissible to do so.

.............you obviously have not read CC agreements then. We have had Merchants denied in recent years due to local business permits requiring Tobacco licensing. Automatic Default to Denial regardless of items sold.

CC Companies walk on Investor Egg Shells...........

This particular instance could have involved the Users CC Companies Denial on grounds of Tobacco Sales. Others could swiftly follow.

 

[danny c]

It will be interesting to see what happens over here in the uk, I hope the powers that be don't move in the same direction as the usa.
Time to stockpile nicotine perhaps...

 

[Gene V]

That assumes that the shipper is willing to not follow USPS regs. I don't know if it's true, but I read somewhere that the USPS has a policy of not delivering "tobacco products". If all vape gear and liquids are now "tobacco products"...

On the other hand, I think earlier in this thread someone said that "tobacco products" must be labeled as such - and so could presumably be shipped - so I dunno.

Still, I'm worried about the situation.

Assuming the vaping moves to black market, I doubt there will be official online shops that will be willing to deliver juice to you. When I said it's possible to ship via Post Office , I didn't mean that anyone will risk to ship prohibited product if there's a law against it. I know people who ship drugs. But obviously they are not an online merchant and don't have an address. What do you see black market look like?

 

[skoony]

As far as this CC processor denial as far as I know Halo,Johnson Creek or,Mt. Baker
nor any one else has been cut off. The regs are not final yet. Though deemed tobacco products
that must come under compliance they are not officially tobacco products until the two
years is up and they have followed the compliance procedures . Then they are
sanctioned tobacco products or contraband. If still legally on the market as per what
the deeming regs describes what can be sold at that time they fall under the same
restrictions as any other tobacco product until the FDA accepts their application,requests additional clarification for acceptance and in the case of denial they would not be a tobacco product
but contraband and there for illegal to ship as any other contraband item would.

Right now for all intents and purposes they are not actually anything in terms of the
items that have restrictions on them. Their in limbo so to speak. If CC processors are
cutting off vendors it is not because of any legal requirement.
Mike

 

[crxess]

To the best of my knowledge the USPS will not knowingly deliver anything if restrictions
apply. The deeming regs are not final for 2 years.
mike

Not sure where you keep getting that. They will be Set in Stone at the end of 90 Days.(more like when read in). No Enforcement against Manufacturer or Business will be taken at the FDA level until 2yrs.(Excepting Age Restriction)

This cannot and does not stop any arbitrary actions by other financial groups. i.e. CC Companies restricting Card Related purchases.

 

[Buster282]

On the other side, I've retained Covington in the past, and found their work product to be excellent. Unfortunately, (nothing negative about the firm or lawyers mind you) between filings, motions, appeals, and oral arguments, they could run up a six figure bill in no time fighting a parking ticket.

An earlier poster mentioned something about them taking the case on contingency, but that could not be the case here. The relief being sought is essentially dump the Deeming Rule and grant an injunction to prevent the FDA from enforcing it. There are no monetary damages, and the best Nicopure could get would be reimbursement of reasonable legal fees. The question for Nicopure will end up being how much are they willing to spend before the expense outweighs any profit or projected future profits.

I also doubt Nicopure will be the only company bringing suits on this. Others might use different arguments which could be successful if this fails, or perhaps there will be some sort of consolidation so you don't end up with potentially conflicting rulings, and have it all heard by the same judge. Clearly, there will be a lot of litigation over this, and it will be years before it's settled.

For all we know, Covington could be a vapor and like Tribeca!!

 

[StormFinch]

Anything's better than the reaction from one of my local B&Ms. Just checked their Facebook page, they're having a "Forget the FDA Deeming" sale.

 

[Jumpin' In...]

Assuming the vaping moves to black market, I doubt there will be official online shops that will be willing to deliver juice to you. When I said it's possible to ship via Post Office , I didn't mean that anyone will risk to ship prohibited product if there's a law against it. I know people who ship drugs. But obviously they are not an online merchant and don't have an address. What do you see black market look like?

If vaping moves to the black market, there won't be any online shops, period. I worry that the currently operating, legitimate shops won't be able to ship as of August 10 - or whatever the effective date is of the deeming regulation is - even BEFORE the black market is even thought to be necessary.