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Awesome, I can't wait for your findings! You are hereby nominated for the title "Dr. Vapenstein!" Now I need to figure out how to subscribe to a thread.
From what I understand....a coil VAPORizes the juice (it goes through a phase change and becomes a gas) and it then condenses into a fine mist (like a fog) mixing with the input air and water vapor in the air. So with the coils, e-juice is a condensate.
With a Ultrasonic Atomizer....IDK...how that works. Then again, nebulizers work differently too. So.....Hmmmmm........
Also WARNING....the heat of a coil may destroy some nic. Now....if you experiment with other means....use very low or zero nic juice for starters. As a precaution. Don't over nic.
I didn't know that they were mutually exclusive, or that that was my only choices.
I do not have a formal decision tree generated. But the first thing is to load it with water and use it in it's intended role. Then trying to to add flavor to the water. Then ramp things up starting with 100% PG, then 50/50, and finally 100%VG. In any case at this point it gets torn down. What happens after that depends on what I have found.
I do not have a formal decision tree generated. But the first thing is to load it with water and use it in it's intended role. Then trying to to add flavor to the water. Then ramp things up starting with 100% PG, then 50/50, and finally 100%VG. In any case at this point it gets torn down. What happens after that depends on what I have found.
So what do you plan to do with it? Will you load it up with ejuice or try to mod it?
Ok
And good luck on that. Never worked for me. I just go to "What's new" then "My posts".
And good luck on that. Never worked for me. I just go to "What's new" then "My posts".
From time to time interest in an ultrasonic alternative is resurrected. From what I understand the main concerns tend to be the lack of heat produced and sourcing a battery that can keep up with average use. On another note a cool mist may provide a smoother draw, perhaps preventing throat hits all together. I played with the idea a while back but never made it to the experimental phase, if you have an ultrasonic fogger or a mist dish I'd suggest pouring in some e-juice (preferably 0 nic), inhale through a straw or drip tip and report back.
First, I am not clear on how this device works. All they really say on their web site is that water is forced through tiny holes, and that ultrasonics are involved. I am guessing that as the water comes out of the holes, it gets chopped up by either ultrasonic sound waves, or perhaps instead the metal sheet that has all the holes in it is being shaken at ultrasonic frequency.
In regards to the fluids you use, I imagine that the tiny holes they describe the water being sent through is going to limit how viscous your fluid can be.
Water tends to be the same viscosity as you cool it. I don't know how the viscosity of PG and VG respond to temperature. But, if they are temperature responsive, then you have a couple of issues, and options.
If a cool temperature outside causes the viscosity to increase, your device may not work. If either PG or VG is too viscous at any given temperature, you may be able to heat it up as much as necessary to get the viscosity you want. So, if it is too viscous at room temperature, you can fix that as well.
Joe Dunfee
Yeah...but my point was....Mr. Hon Lik invented it 13 years ago...and it apparently worked. Well, not "apparently" since we don't use it now...we use coils.
The viscosity points are well made. IDK. I think he used 100% PG, no VG, as a base with some % nic (guess).
The viscosity points are well made. IDK. I think he used 100% PG, no VG, as a base with some % nic (guess).
While these may all be valid points about viscosity and temperature, unfortunately I can't find extensive information on why piezoelectrics worked or failed. So I am still very interested and patiently waiting to read what else RickAppling will report. I'm convinced it's an engineering problem and not an impossibility. Since piezoelectrics are used in inkjet printers, hospitals, and consumer products it would seem that there are enough ways to adjust the technology for it to work. I'm just not the guy to do it.
It is getting late and I do not have time to reply to everyone. But I got the steamer and did a few quick tests. You cannot exhale anything you inhale. Using water it does carry flavor. But only if you inhale though the nose. Also it appears that you need to use alot less flavor.
I also found this, Patent
I also found this, Patent
Nice find Rick, any updates on your testing? Using PG or Triacetin (caution, this is a known tank cracker, if the reservoir is plastic you risk inhaling some nasties) as the base may better transport the flavor. The higher viscosity of straight VG could possibly prevent vaporization, yet nothing ventured nothing gained.
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This is the first I have heard of triacetin. I looked it up, very interesting. Do you know if anyone sells it?
But as to the steamer it does not seem to be useful for anything other than its intended purpose. It can not even deal with 100% PG. I have not had time to do anything more. I have been pulling long hours getting ready for the shutdown and upgrades.
But as to the steamer it does not seem to be useful for anything other than its intended purpose. It can not even deal with 100% PG. I have not had time to do anything more. I have been pulling long hours getting ready for the shutdown and upgrades.
Some problems with the cool-mist type of ultrasonic misters:
1. Power. You are running an oscillator circuit that causes a piezoelectric to vibrate at high frequency - battery life may be pretty lousy.
2. These things operate at >50,000 Hz, typically. The liquid at the point of contact on the plate does get warm, but rapidly cools. In a small range like you would see with an atomizer, the mist could be uncomfortably warm.
3. The ultrasonic generates a lot of heat that needs to be dissipated - the reason for the water in the misting bowls. If you run one for even a couple of seconds without liquid over the plate, it will burn up internally. Do you want your expensive toy to die every time you get a dry hit?
4. Size/weight - Since we're vibrating a plate to basically bounce/shake the liquid droplets into micro-droplets, you need a reasonably solid base that does NOT vibrate. Check out the mister in a bowl - big chunk of metal with a dime-sized piezo plate. An atty would probably be unreasonably big and heavy, or, if made lighter, cause friction blisters (see the next point)...
4. THE BIG ONE: Ever notice the warning on those misting bowls that recommend you don't put your hands near the ultrasonic generator? The reason is that at the frequencies, the micro-droplets have a LOT of kinetic energy and can actually be injected UNDER the skin. From what I hear, it's painful and unpleasant and takes a while to heal. That is NOT what I want to have happen to my tongue/lips/gums. The effect is sort of like the hypo-spray thing that Dr. McCoy used on Star Trek.
I don't want to rain on anybody's parade or interfere with the pursuit of scientific investigation, but there's probably a reason we use coils and wicks now. Be careful.
1. Power. You are running an oscillator circuit that causes a piezoelectric to vibrate at high frequency - battery life may be pretty lousy.
2. These things operate at >50,000 Hz, typically. The liquid at the point of contact on the plate does get warm, but rapidly cools. In a small range like you would see with an atomizer, the mist could be uncomfortably warm.
3. The ultrasonic generates a lot of heat that needs to be dissipated - the reason for the water in the misting bowls. If you run one for even a couple of seconds without liquid over the plate, it will burn up internally. Do you want your expensive toy to die every time you get a dry hit?
4. Size/weight - Since we're vibrating a plate to basically bounce/shake the liquid droplets into micro-droplets, you need a reasonably solid base that does NOT vibrate. Check out the mister in a bowl - big chunk of metal with a dime-sized piezo plate. An atty would probably be unreasonably big and heavy, or, if made lighter, cause friction blisters (see the next point)...
4. THE BIG ONE: Ever notice the warning on those misting bowls that recommend you don't put your hands near the ultrasonic generator? The reason is that at the frequencies, the micro-droplets have a LOT of kinetic energy and can actually be injected UNDER the skin. From what I hear, it's painful and unpleasant and takes a while to heal. That is NOT what I want to have happen to my tongue/lips/gums. The effect is sort of like the hypo-spray thing that Dr. McCoy used on Star Trek.
I don't want to rain on anybody's parade or interfere with the pursuit of scientific investigation, but there's probably a reason we use coils and wicks now. Be careful.
I don't doubt anything you've written Zipslack, but it's interesting to me that the drawings in the patent don't seem to indicate a large device. Of course, I don't know what the numbered parts in the drawing refer to either. That information was not on the page. It would be really great to even see a photo of one original prototype...
Thanks Zipslack!
Yes...to reiterate...I was only asking. You're experimenting at your own risk...and please be careful. I suspect certain frequencies could even be damaging in and of themselves...even with just air conduction. Then there's bone-conduction/induction (teeth) So...know what you are doing and be careful!!!!!
Yes...to reiterate...I was only asking. You're experimenting at your own risk...and please be careful. I suspect certain frequencies could even be damaging in and of themselves...even with just air conduction. Then there's bone-conduction/induction (teeth) So...know what you are doing and be careful!!!!!
Points 1 through 3 are all valid, however 4 and 4
are easily remedied. As far as vibration concerns you could insulate the unit with a rubber foam. If I'm not mistaken the warnings are actually referring to touching the ceramic plate or close proximity (centimeters or so), either way this could be simply fixed by using a top cap expansion chamber like most traditional rebuildables.
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Well I have learned a little more. In my first test with the streamer it generated a good mist. But when inhaled none of it was exhaled. I then added some pineapple flavor. Inhaling though my mouth and exhaling though my nose I got nothing except a weird feeling in the back of my mouth. Inhaling though my nose I got a sense of pineapple, but also drying paint. I think that there was too much flavor in the mix. Attypops seems to have been right on in his suggestion to start out with a low dose. Which makes me wonder if stealth vaping doesn't delivers more nicotine. I got nothing when I then tried 100?% PG. Surface tension or viscosity too high. Raised it out with water and it started right back up.
As far as ultrasonics in early E-cigs goes it appears that they did the same job as wicks currently do. Deliver the juice to a heated coil just like current devices. Probably in the form of a piezo pump.
In regards to the concerns raised by. Zipslack the method used in the streamers and nebulizers is different from that used in humidifiers. Humidifiers use what is known as acoustic streaming. This requires a lot of energy. The method used here is what is called vibrating mesh. This is a membrane with holes around 5-15um attached to a piezoelectric disc. This requires much less energy.
As far as ultrasonics in early E-cigs goes it appears that they did the same job as wicks currently do. Deliver the juice to a heated coil just like current devices. Probably in the form of a piezo pump.
In regards to the concerns raised by. Zipslack the method used in the streamers and nebulizers is different from that used in humidifiers. Humidifiers use what is known as acoustic streaming. This requires a lot of energy. The method used here is what is called vibrating mesh. This is a membrane with holes around 5-15um attached to a piezoelectric disc. This requires much less energy.
Do you think the membrane in this case needs bigger holes to be used for PG?
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