Unprotected Lithium Ion Battery Safety

[RamShot Rowdy]

I've seen some pretty disturbing stories and pictures about failed CR2 batteries in PVs. So I'd like to hear any safety tips and good practices anyone has for carefully and properly using unprotected batteries.

Here is what I know so far, or think I do at least:

(1) A 3V CR2 should not be charged to a voltage higher than 4.2 Volts.
(2) A 3V CR2 should not be depleted to a voltage less than 2 Volts.
(3) You should check the voltage of both batteries when using two in series as the voltage of one can drop faster than the other.

Here are a few questions I'd like to know the answers to:

How long should CR2 batteries be used before you dispose of them? I mean if they are still working after 6 months to a year should you keep using them.
Are they more likely to fail with age?

What are some warning signs that a battery may be going bad and should be thrown away, or signs it may be about to fail catastrophically?

In some of the stories I read people said the PV stopped working, or the batteries felt hot right before the batteries failed. Any other signs to look out for?

In case the worst happens, what should you do? Do you have a few seconds to run to the door and throw it in the yard? Should you try to dump the batteries? Should you throw it and run?

And remember, from my understanding, protected batteries just have a circuit that prevents over charging and over depletion. This doesn't mean they can't fail just as catastrophically as the unprotected ones.

Also, I have some of the Excellerator LiFePO4 CR2s and have been charging them in my UltraFire 3.0/3.7 CR123 charger on the 3V setting. Has anyone else been using these chargers and do you think it's a bad idea to charge them in this charger?

Anyway, just trying to open a constructive and hopefully educational thread so we can all vape safely with our unprotected CR2s.

 

[Quick1]

I don't know anything about this but I'm very interested in it...

I am under the impression that the pcb in a protected battery (at least some of them?) not only protects from over charge and low voltage but also will limit the discharge rate? Doesn't a 6v mod exceed the normal/safe/rated discharge rate of the batteries? I'm assuming that a 6v mod draws almost 2 amps through the regular atomizers?

 

[RamShot Rowdy]

I know a lot of the 6V mods use protected batteries, especially the bigger ones, so they seem to work fine with the protected batteries circuit, or the circuit doesn't protected against over current one.

6V @ 3.2 Ohms = 1.875 amps if I did the math right.

 

[VapnRealtor]

I've seen some pretty disturbing stories and pictures about failed CR2 batteries in PVs. So I'd like to hear any safety tips and good practices anyone has for carefully and properly using unprotected batteries.

Here is what I know so far, or think I do at least:

(1) A 3V CR2 should not be charged to a voltage higher than 4.2 Volts.
(2) A 3V CR2 should not be depleted to a voltage less than 2 Volts.
(3) You should check the voltage of both batteries when using two in series as the voltage of one can drop faster than the other.

Here are a few questions I'd like to know the answers to:

How long should CR2 batteries be used before you dispose of them? I mean if they are still working after 6 months to a year should you keep using them.
Are they more likely to fail with age?

What are some warning signs that a battery may be going bad and should be thrown away, or signs it may be about to fail catastrophically?

In some of the stories I read people said the PV stopped working, or the batteries felt hot right before the batteries failed. Any other signs to look out for?

In case the worst happens, what should you do? Do you have a few seconds to run to the door and throw it in the yard? Should you try to dump the batteries? Should you throw it and run?

And remember, from my understanding, protected batteries just have a circuit that prevents over charging and over depletion. This doesn't mean they can't fail just as catastrophically as the unprotected ones.

Also, I have some of the Excellerator LiFePO4 CR2s and have been charging them in my UltraFire 3.0/3.7 CR123 charger on the 3V setting. Has anyone else been using these chargers and do you think it's a bad idea to charge them in this charger?

Anyway, just trying to open a constructive and hopefully educational thread so we can all vape safely with our unprotected CR2s.

I gotta say those excellerator batteries looked sketchy to me since day one and then I heard about someone getting them and they were rusted and another about how flimsy the charger was then the guy supposedly from the TW thread who;s BB exploded said he was using the excellerators.8-o That made me then question if they are LifePo4 why the hell did they blow up? LifePo4 are not suppose to react like that I also asked myself why is just some unknown chinese brand the only ones making LifePo4 cr2's and nobody else? So many things about those batteries is just not right sounding to me at all and I would be much more comfortable using the Green unprotected Ultrafires anyday.

It sounds like I know probably as much as you do about batteries and those are some great questions I'd like to know too. I just don't know who would really be able to answer some of them. Too bad the manufacturers do not have any of this info on theiir sites

There is a good site about batteries called battery university you should check out if you havent already. Just do a google search and you should find it easy

 

[New_World]

bump.

I'd like to know the answers to these questions as well.

 

[raqball]

I read somewhere that some manufacturers in China are actually shipping CR2's but calling them and stamping them as LifePo4's....

Maybe that's why one person had the LifePo4 blow up on them.... Don't know enough about batteries to know for sure but it would be nice to have a trusted US supplier for all our battery needs....

Kris

 

[Sun Vaporer]

And remember, from my understanding, protected batteries just have a circuit that prevents over charging and over depletion. This doesn't mean they can't fail just as catastrophically as the unprotected ones

DJ --your concerns are well founded. Protected Batteries also do protect against a short. Here is a typical write up on a protected battery:

WARNING: THIS BATTERY IS NOT MEANT TO BE A DIRECT REPLACEMENT FOR AA ALKALINE/NIMH BATTERIES IN CONSUMER DEVICES. THESE LITHIUM ION BATTERIES OPERATE AT MORE THAN TWICE THE VOLTAGE OF AN ALKALINE BATTERY AND 3 TIMES THE VOLTAGE OF A NIMH CELL AND MAY DAMAGE OR DESTROY YOUR DEVICE.

UltraFire Battery LC14500 3.6V

• Capacity: 900mAh
• Rechargeable for 600-800 times
• Peak Voltage: 4.2V
• Nominal/Working Voltage: 3.6V
• Temparature: -40C~60C
• Dimension: 14x52mm
• Protected against short circuit, over discharge, over-current discharge.

Please note that rechargeable protected lithium ion cells are always bigger and longer than standard cells, please make sure they fit your device before purchasing.

NOTE: Use special caution when working with Li-ion cells, they are very sensitive to charging characteristics and may explode or burn if mishandled. Make sure the user has enough knowledge of Li-Ion rechargeable batteries in charging, discharging and assembly before use. Always charge in/on a fire-proof surface. Never leave charging batteries unattended. We are not responsible for damage if there is any modification of the batteries/chargers in any form or shape (including pack making). We are not responsible for any damage caused by misuse or mishandling of Li-Ion batteries and chargers. We only recommend using Lithium Ion rechargeable batteries with a control circuit (protection PCB)


Sun

 

[raqball]

Good information... Thanks!!

Kris

 

[RamShot Rowdy]

I made a mistake in my first post, a 3 volt CR2 should only be charged to around 3.6 volts max and not 4.2 volts as I stated. I think a 3.7 volt battery gets charged to 4.2 volts max.

I've been checking mine when they come off the charger and they seem to be 3.6 to 3.8 volts, so my charger seems to be cutting off at the right voltage.

I've also been checking them when vapor production drops or basically stops. They are typically 2.5 to 2.9 volts, which is well above the 2.0 volt minimum. So unless you keep hammering on them after vapor production drops then these unprotected UltraFire CR2 should be fairly safe assuming you have a good charger.

 

[mrtuna]

It kind of sucks that we have to become battery experts to use a vaping device safely.

 

[New_World]

It kind of sucks that we have to become battery experts to use a vaping device safely.

we use batteries in everything now a days.

laptops, cell phones, gps, more and more.

So it may be a pain, but its good info to know that can be applied to other things as well.

 

[RamShot Rowdy]

I've been putting my volt meter on a lot of the UltraFire CR2's when I pull them out of my Super Six. Here are some more observations:

(1) Vapor production seems to drop drastically or stop when one or both batteries drops below 2.5 volts. I vaped until vapor production stopped tonight, and the lowest of the two batteries was at about 2.2-2.3 volts. I have never drained them below the minimum of 2.0 volts on the safety warning. So you would have to try to over deplete them.

(2) The 3.0 volt CR2 should only be charged to a maximum voltage of about 3.6 volts. Make sure you don't charge them in a 3.7 volt charger or they could get charged to 4.2 volts which would exceed the maximum on the safety label, and probably lead to failure. I would recommend everyone check the voltage of your CR2's coming off the charger and make sure it's under 4.0 volts. If it's more get a new charger.

My charger seems to be cutting off at around 3.6-3.8 volts.

(3) I've found both batteries seem to drain at about the same rate when used in series. If you drain them a lot the difference in voltage between the two seems to widen. This may simply be due to each battery having a slightly different capacity. One may reach the end of it's useful charge slightly faster than the other.

Anyway, I'm no battery expert, but so far this is what I'm seeing out of my batteries in the S6.

 

[New_World]

for anyone who is concerned about battery safety and doesn't own a multimeter, buy one.
you can check to see if your charger is over charging your batteries, see when you're running your unprotected batts too low, and more.

you can get a multimeter for under $20 that will work just find for that.

 

[KonaNeil]

for anyone who is concerned about battery safety and doesn't own a multimeter, buy one.
you can check to see if your charger is over charging your batteries, see when you're running your unprotected batts too low, and more.

you can get a multimeter for under $20 that will work just find for that.

I'm also using my VOM to match the power curves of my Excellerator CR2s. I then mate them into matched pairs.

BTW: My experience with these LifePo4 bats in my S6 is much like djdavis's Li bats except that the Excellerator charger always stops at 3.6v and weird as it sounds, it seems as though the maH has increased a bit with some use of the batteries. I now get about 4 hours from a pair using HV801 atomizers. They rapidly go from 3.6 down to around 3.26 and stay in the 3.2 range until the very end. To reference this against 3.7v use, I normally get 6-7 hours from a 14500 with BE112 atomizers.

I'm getting a feeling that blowups may happen because when batteries are depleted and giving very little, there is a human tendency to push on the switch longer trying to vape one last drag. I believe that sustained use of a battery is harder on it than short bursts. Not a good thing to do when they're depleted, especially in pairs when they drift downward at differing rates.

 

[sadtranz]

Been useing green ultrafire cr2s have found both batteries lose charge evenly down to 3.2 or 3.3 v then bottom battery button end drops to 2.3 or 2.4v don't know why but it is allways the bottom battery try to match them ie charge 2 low together but still get same result