Updated!! Pennsylvania: 40% tax = game over for vape

[Katmar]

Is there an effective date for this garbage and are they going after past purchases?

 

[swampergene]

Is there an effective date for this garbage and are they going after past purchases?

Except for a few items pertaining to roll your own, Article XII-A - the part that affects vaping - goes into effect October 1st. They aren't going after past consumer purchases, but shops will have to pay a floor tax on any standing inventory that is in their possession on that date.

 

[mattiem]

Something I wrote back in May of last year. Musing-My thoughts
Sadly it is happening and is even worse than I imagined

 

[Verb]

Let's face it, they went after a subset of a minority that they've been punishing for decades, the smoker. They really expect to push back since they've never gotten it in the past. They just threw another $1 a pack on the smokers without a whimper. Could you imagine the upheaval a sugary drink tax would have caused like they had in Philly?

The taxes had nothing to do with health or the diseases caused by smoking, it had to do with generating revenue and we've hurt that revenue stream so we're getting hit again. They don't seem to care if they lose 100s of businesses or thousands of jobs. The tax is more aggressive if you buy outside state. Remember it's a 40% wholesale tax to dealers, a 40% retail sales plus shipping and handling tax on individuals. How they go about collecting that tax and enforcing their regulation will be interesting.

What I find interesting is the tax on hardware. If I buy batteries for my flashlights it's one cost. If I buy the same batteries for my APV I have to pay 40% more. A thought just hit me, if I buy vapor supplies from a vendor that collects PA sales taxes, do I pay the 40% on the product plus S&H and the sales tax. Plus, if they don't collect the sales tax, am I required to pay PA sales taxes on top of the 40%.

Boy look how they felt about the taxes on tea in Boston some time ago.

Yes, if you are an upstanding citizen, you also pay the sales tax (sales tax or the use tax needs to be paid to be considered to have paid the "proper tax" so possession of your vape is legal). There has be no clarification in writing, but in other cases, the excise tax gets taxed by the sales or use tax. So, the total tax comes out to 48.4% of the purchase price. I know the 6% applies to shipping and handling. The language on the "unclassified importer" does not clearly state it is also applies to shipping. I think I read, with regards to the wholesale tax on retailers, shipping is taxed at 40%. But, the same language is not in the "unclassified importer" section. Time to read it through again to be sure.

 

[Katmar]

Except for a few items pertaining to roll your own, Article XII-A - the part that affects vaping - goes into effect October 1st. They aren't going after past consumer purchases, but shops will have to pay a floor tax on any standing inventory that is in their possession on that date.

And, after that date, anything I purchase on the internet, out of state, I pay 40% tax on top of sales tax?

 

[Whitesoxfan2579]

It just goes to show ya, it's ALL about the money.

 

[swampergene]

And, after that date, anything I purchase on the internet, out of state, I pay 40% tax on top of sales tax?

This is where things get really messy. If the retailer is licensed to sell in PA then they are responsible for paying the tax. If they aren't, then you become an "unclassified importer" and you yourself would need to file the documentation needed and submit the tax which would be 40% of the retail price paid. This could make buying online more expensive because a local shop pays 40% tax on wholesale price, not retail. For example, say a local shop sells an item, after the tax is applied, for $13.00. You see it online for $10 and order it, then being an upstanding citizen you pay your tax due at the end of the month, which makes your online purchase $14.00.

So much to look for in the coming months!

 

[DaveP]

Survey: Trump, Clinton Are the Vaping Candidates

 

[rothenbj]

This is where things get really messy. If the retailer is licensed to sell in PA then they are responsible for paying the tax. If they aren't, then you become an "unclassified importer" and you yourself would need to file the documentation needed and submit the tax which would be 40% of the retail price paid. This could make buying online more expensive because a local shop pays 40% tax on wholesale price, not retail. For example, say a local shop sells an item, after the tax is applied, for $13.00. You see it online for $10 and order it, then being an upstanding citizen you pay your tax due at the end of the month, which makes your online purchase $14.00.

So much to look for in the coming months!

Actually $14.60 or $14.70 if you are in Philly or Pittsburgh unless, of course, they want you to pay the sales tax on the "unclassified importer" new retail price of $14.00 then it would be $14.84 to $14.98 compared to the $13.78 or $13.91 you'd pay at the B&M, if one is available.

 

[Jonner]

40%
Thanks Governor Wolf
Like Pigs at a Trough

 

[rothenbj]

Wolf doesn't get all the credit, both my Repugnant representatives voted for the tax and they'll never get another vote from me. If they wanted to generate more revenue, they just should have approved a 1% sales tax increase which all residence would have paid. Of course, that would have impacted everyone making their elect-ability less certain.

 

[swampergene]

Actually $14.60 or $14.70 if you are in Philly or Pittsburgh unless, of course, they want you to pay the sales tax on the "unclassified importer" new retail price of $14.00 then it would be $14.84 to $14.98 compared to the $13.78 or $13.91 you'd pay at the B&M, if one is available.

Yes...I was keeping it simple for example but yes sales tax counts too

 

[Jonner]

Wolf doesn't get all the credit,

I know, it's not just Wolf, but I am so fed up with elected officials (all, if not most of them) ignoring the will of the people. But Wolf, as a business owner, should know, that this tax will wipe out most vape businesses in PA.

 

[Jonner]

I am OK with a reasonable tax, as I am OK with reasonable regulations, but what THEY are doing to vaping is disgusting, and is going turn people back to smoking cigarettes.

I find all of this just so REPUGNANT.

 

[CMD-Ky]

There comes a time when one must question both the stated and unstated goal of legislation. Given that this tax will never collect the money desired (as you have succinctly stated) perhaps the goal is not revenue. If the stated goal cannot be reached, what might the Pennsylvania legislature have as its unstated goal?
We have a president and a candidate for president who have a publicly stated a goal to bankrupt an entire industry with consent of a sizable number of the citizenry. Sometimes the people's behavior must be controlled for the greater good. Taxation is an effective way to control undesirable behavior.

Update from CASAA: CASAA: PA - Take action to oppose a 40 percent wholesale tax on vapor products.

**Pennsylvania Update**

Article 12-A of HB 1198 -- the revenue portion of Pennsylvania's 2017 budget -- is a death warrant. The tax imposed is so high, so sudden, and so poorly considered that few vapor retailers are likely to survive. There is no loophole or bright side for consumers either. In fact, the state has managed to criminalize possession of vapor products for which the tax has not been paid.

This is, without a doubt, one of, if not the, worst pieces of vapor tax legislation we have seen. Pennsylvania will not collect the estimated amount of revenue expected from this tax and will harm hundreds of thousands of PA residents in the process.

 

[MoDmAnDaN]

but what THEY are doing to vaping is disgusting, and is going turn people back to smoking cigarettes.

I find all of this just so REPUGNANT.

And THAT is exactly why this is happening. Big tobacco is sitting back in their custom ostrich covered business chairs patting them selves on the back. This is what they have been trying to do and are becoming successful at. Thankfully, I don't live in PA, but the same crap will spread if this tax is implemented.

 

[CMD-Ky]

What is reasonable tax and regulation? We all seek reason. Find me the person who will publicly say, "I favor unreasonable taxation and regulation". I am certain that the members of the legislature consider themselves reasonable. And so, by their definition of "reasonable", they have passed reasonable taxation.

I am OK with a reasonable tax, as I am OK with reasonable regulations, but what THEY are doing to vaping is disgusting, and is going turn people back to smoking cigarettes.

I find all of this just so REPUGNANT.

 

[CMD-Ky]

Something I wrote back in May of last year. Musing-My thoughts
Sadly it is happening and is even worse than I imagined

You nailed it over a year ago; the goal is control, by our betters, of the unapproved behavior committed by people such as myself.

 

[BreSha6869]

I heard a new report today in Toronto that a "prominent" pediatrician is asking for Health Canada to ban/regulate eCigs as he has proven that it is a gateway to smoking in grade 9 students.

I wonder how many more grade 9 students are carrying a big glass tubelike object in their backpacks than are getting hooked on vaping and running out to buy their first pack of smokes soon thereafter?

Just because you have a PhD and MD designation doesn't mean you aren't an uninformed idiot IME.

 

[MikeE3]

Those are Funding Qualifiers, not Reasoning. Nothing explaining the fundamental need to attach a Tax to the Product, beyond inability to Run a Government under current and (not so) proper taxation.....

I have been Quiet, but here. Also Dropping - Government Murder by Proxy - on Campaign Tweets of Both parties as well as Abusive Media services.

Tobacco Kills, Vaping saves Lives

I Vape
I Vote
Overhaul Government and start fresh!
Live and let live

I'm not 'Tweeter literate' but do have an account. So I borrowed from you and left this tweet on 3 PA twitter accounts.

Government Murder by Proxy - Tobacco Kills, Vaping saves Lives - I Vape, I Vote #IVapeIVote

PA Legislature (@PaLegis) | Twitter
PaSenateDems (@PaSenateDems) | Twitter
PA Senate GOP (@PASenateGOP) | Twitter

So, is there a way to see tweets from 'others' sent to their pages? Their home pages only show tweets that they sent.