I was just defending myself from the passive aggressive tag-team here. I'm done responding to them now. It's pointless.
Urgent message from Gregory Conley, President of American Vaping Association...
- Thread starter Andromendous
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
I was just defending myself from the passive aggressive tag-team here. I'm done responding to them now. It's pointless.
One of the neatest things I've seen lately was a sign at a Trump rally that said simply "I vape I Vote". I often wondered why we couldn't get 100-200 of these signs, along with a good spokesperson, at a few Trump, Bernie type events. Maybe even at some state and local events. Might be effective, especially right now,
To answer the question "who is Greg Conley?" This is Greg...
CASAA on VP-Live this Sunday, 4/17 at 9 PM Eastern
Greg started with CASAA as their Legislative Director in 2011 after graduating Rutgers with a JD and MBA and doing an intern and externship. He then moved on to Heartland Institute and finally AVA, all within the vaping advocacy framework. Even back then he often spent his days flying from one legislative meeting on e-cigarettes to another.
CASAA on VP-Live this Sunday, 4/17 at 9 PM Eastern
Greg started with CASAA as their Legislative Director in 2011 after graduating Rutgers with a JD and MBA and doing an intern and externship. He then moved on to Heartland Institute and finally AVA, all within the vaping advocacy framework. Even back then he often spent his days flying from one legislative meeting on e-cigarettes to another.
Not playing games. You are claiming that the advocates were/are doing it all wrong. If only they did it your way, we won't be in this predicament. That is quite a bold and extraordinary claim. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. All i'm asking is please explain 'your way' and evidence of it's benefits and proven track record.
Why can't the tactics you propose be applicable in areas other than southern AZ ?
7sixtwo, there is very little we could have done to change what the FDA was going to do over the last two years. They are not elected officials, they do not answer to the people. They also did not put much effort into regulating vaping, they simply took existing tobacco laws, and added e-cigarette language, knowing they would be killing the industry. They could care less either way, if it stands, they makes tons of money and never really have to regulate anything, since they can simply deny any application set before them, which will likely be very few. If congress does the right thing, then they still don't have to regulate anything (for a while), but at least can save face by claiming they tried.
They went so far beyond what is reasonable that I really cannot see the impending challenges not putting a stop to it. While contacting your legislators is very important for long term fixes, it is not our last resort at this point. The court system is also our friend in the short term, and that is where the fight is now.
Where the vape industry did fail was working to change the public's perception of vaping and drawing a clear distinction between tobacco products and nicotine products. How can e-cigarettes be deemed a tobacco product while nicotine gums and patches are not. All three have one thing in common with cigarettes, nicotine, that's it.
They went so far beyond what is reasonable that I really cannot see the impending challenges not putting a stop to it. While contacting your legislators is very important for long term fixes, it is not our last resort at this point. The court system is also our friend in the short term, and that is where the fight is now.
Where the vape industry did fail was working to change the public's perception of vaping and drawing a clear distinction between tobacco products and nicotine products. How can e-cigarettes be deemed a tobacco product while nicotine gums and patches are not. All three have one thing in common with cigarettes, nicotine, that's it.
So hey, it's Gregory Conley, the purportedly anti-vaping guy who doesn't have a clue about political advocacy. Please put away your pitchforks for a moment.
When I wrote that post the other day, I honestly didn't expect it to be shared as widely as it was. Had I known it would've gone beyond Facebook groups, I would've written more on the subject.
In short, vapers holding rallies is something that can easily turn into very bad publicity. Public opinion is against us. Shoddily putting together 'protests' on a couple weeks' notice is not the way to bring about change. Protests organized by shady e-liquid companies that use Fruity COPYRIGHTDMCA in their advertisements (and have no past history in advocacy), for example, aren't going to positively impact public opinion or the fight against the deeming ban.
It sounds boring, but vape company owners and vapers lobbying Congress is what is going to bring about change. It is 27 months until prohibition date. There is a time for demonstrations. There is a time for protests. This isn't it.
You can all go back to hating me now.
When I wrote that post the other day, I honestly didn't expect it to be shared as widely as it was. Had I known it would've gone beyond Facebook groups, I would've written more on the subject.
In short, vapers holding rallies is something that can easily turn into very bad publicity. Public opinion is against us. Shoddily putting together 'protests' on a couple weeks' notice is not the way to bring about change. Protests organized by shady e-liquid companies that use Fruity COPYRIGHTDMCA in their advertisements (and have no past history in advocacy), for example, aren't going to positively impact public opinion or the fight against the deeming ban.
It sounds boring, but vape company owners and vapers lobbying Congress is what is going to bring about change. It is 27 months until prohibition date. There is a time for demonstrations. There is a time for protests. This isn't it.
You can all go back to hating me now.
I Don't hate you Greg. LOL.
And as I stated earlier in this thread, have Nothing but Respect for the work You and your Colleges have done for All Vapers /e-Cigarette Retailers.
I am Especially Grateful for the Time and Efforts that were put into California's 2015 Special Session Bills. Those Committee Hearings were Very Hard to Watch. And it would have be Difficult for me to remain professional while giving Testimony such as what You and Mrs. Hess gave.
Whereas I Disagree that Now is Not the Time for Rallys/Demonstrations, I Fully Agree that any type of Public Assembly can/could have a Negative Impact if it is not Highly Organized and carefully Co-Ordinated. And above all, safeguards Must be in place to Ensure that Any Rally/Demonstration will remain Peaceful and Professional.
Thank you for Chiming in here on the Wording of your Comments regarding a Rally/Demonstration.
---
BTW - Since your are Here...
The Congressional Review Act states,
§801. Congressional review
(a)(1)(A) Before a rule can take effect, the Federal agency promulgating such rule shall submit to each House of the Congress and to the Comptroller General a report containing—
(i) a copy of the rule;
(ii) a concise general statement relating to the rule, including whether it is a major rule; and
(iii) the proposed effective date of the rule.
...
(b)(1) A rule shall not take effect (or continue), if the Congress enacts a joint resolution of disapproval, described under section 802, of the rule.
...
U.S.C. Title 5 - GOVERNMENT ORGANIZATION AND EMPLOYEES
Do you know if there are Any efforts currently for the Congressional Review Act to be used by Congress with regards to the "Deeming" Rule Set?
Last edited:
First amendment rights? What the right to persue happiness? That defense is weak and overused..you only have that right if it don't infringe upon others. The OP is right marching into Washington is not the answer you'll be seen as a mob nothing more
IMHO a little proactive protesting wouldn't hurt our cause.
How about vape ins? We just have to move the the cereal
over to the fresh veggies section. Carry signs that say tomatoes
contain nicotine and admonish customers not to buy them.
Better yet buy a few bushels and hand them out like candy to the chillin'.
Put warning labels on them that say, contains tobacco and nicotine.
Not FDA approved.
Regards
Mike
How about vape ins? We just have to move the the cereal
over to the fresh veggies section. Carry signs that say tomatoes
contain nicotine and admonish customers not to buy them.
Better yet buy a few bushels and hand them out like candy to the chillin'.
Put warning labels on them that say, contains tobacco and nicotine.
Not FDA approved.
Regards
Mike
No hate here, and thank you for expanding somewhat. Simply a disagreement on leaving out those with Honest intent for Civil Expression of a feeling of injustice on the part of a Branch of our Government.
Not talking about Effigy Burning Hate Protest here, but Life Saving Change Suppression by the FDA, an Oppression of a portion of the American Public with Just cause to do what they do.
A Proper Protest, well organized is nothing more than a Well Recognized Petition to Government, by the People to Stand and Listen. A Petition that cannot be summarily Dismissed or Deleted.
While we do not see eye to eye on this one subject, I do respect your right to your opinion as well as supporting your work for the Industry as a whole.
Dal
* Not only did I stop Smoking and Start Vaping for the Future of my family, but I am infuriated that a Technology which if available a few short decades ago, may have saved my Mothers Life, is now being Destroyed by the Very Branch of Government Charged with improving protecting Health.
Last edited:
A Proper Protest, well organized
Those are the keywords. The reason I wrote what I did was because there was a very, very poorly planned protest at the FDA being promoted on FB. The vendor who was pushing it sells products that I wouldn't want on the national news. Also, he had somehow decided it would be a good idea to interview a FDA official, which would be, and will be, a disaster if it happens.
As for the Congressional Review Act, it will be a very tough sell. Most Republicans understand the need to change the predicate date, but they also understand that completely nixing a reg designed to "protect the children" may not play well come reelection time.
Those are the keywords. The reason I wrote what I did was because there was a very, very poorly planned protest at the FDA being promoted on FB. The vendor who was pushing it sells products that I wouldn't want on the national news. Also, he had somehow decided it would be a good idea to interview a FDA official, which would be, and will be, a disaster if it happens.
As for the Congressional Review Act, it will be a very tough sell. Most Republicans understand the need to change the predicate date, but they also understand that completely nixing a reg designed to "protect the children" may not play well come reelection time.
Has anyone pointed out to the House/Senate, Changing the Deeming Date cannot possibly Effect Big Tobacco as they have been under 2007 Regulations to this DATE and have nothing NEW established for SE under a Date Change? There is no significance in changing the Date as it Pertains to the Tobacco Industry in the United States. The only Disadvantage on the part of the FDA is in Regulating Alternatives to Tobacco products.
* I have no issue with Reasonable Regulation for safety under an independent category Established Solely for Vapor Products(Not Deemed to be Tobacco)
Seems Separation of definition is Critical on many levels.
Deeming as Tobacco, E-cigarette/Vapor products automatically become a tool in promotion:
Smoking kills xxx,xxx persons in the US every year
Smoking cost XXX million in health annually
Increased Health insurance Premiums
Increased Life insurance Premiums
Increased complication in securing Employment
Surely you are already aware of this and much more, and I do apologize, but feel others need to be aware of the Cost of not taking proper actions.
^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^in a nutshell this is why I have supported Lessifers petition. to try to keep vaping from being classified as a tobacco product in the first place and have tried every way I can think of to point others to it. I don't know if petitions do one bit of good but at least it lets everyone know what we are up against. Everything else would be moot if vaping products weren't deemed tobacco products in the first place.
I am sure we have already moved past getting anyone in power to do anything about it but personally I just can't give up my hope that someone will have their eyes opened without getting their wallet fattened.
Yeah - at this point just what we need is another nanny control freak telling us what is acceptable behavior and what isn't. I think not! Sorry, that position has already been taken by various parties in Congress, the FDA, CDC, ACS, ALA, TobaccoFreeKids, Glantz... got it?
We have already tried being all nicey nicey in our approach to this. If a bunch of rabble rouser's want to raise hell and block the entrances at the FDA for a couple few days to make a POINT - more power to them.
The industry may have to be all polite in Court fighting for themselves and tangentially for us in the process. As protesters we don't. Your very recommendations to, basically "be overcautious, best to do nothing" smacks of a conflict of interest and I think we have had enough of that at this point.
Whose side are you on anyway?
That being said, take a look at this blog of a "vaping advocacy group" member... Glimpses Through The Mist: Should people use e-cigarettes in public?
The responses to some of the comments and questions give an air of "well I/we know more than you, so let us handle it" or "your comment does not fit our rhetoric, so therefore it's not important." There's one part that really confuses me where the member states in her blog, "How e-cigs smell (or rather, don't smell)" and is called out on that statement. She backs up and claims she said "basically odorless". Sorry, that's not what your blog says, but OK. The only odorless ejuice is plain VG/PG.
I support anyone who advocates vaper's rights, however, I'm not going to blindly follow any group that says one thing then turns around and says another. Nor will I follow any group that tells me, "Stand with us, but here's what you can and can't do."
Well, seein that P Busardo mentions a hefty amount of $$$ went into 'monitoring' vapers activities and utterances, Mr. Conley might not be too far off the mark with his veiled references to 'enemies within'.
Since FDA has obviously declared war on vaping, a bit of war-think could be advisable.
Watch your enemies, but watch your allies closer ( SunTzu )
But:
A large part of the vaping community has had it. FDA reg's just the last straw in a never-ceasing barrage of smear, slander, junk science, out right lies, twisted half-truths, the whole shebang. And they're pretty much fed up to thr brim.
Remember, it all started over a few crates of tea back then...
Well maybe cigars can get their exemption - former POTUS B. Clinton might get them re-classed as adult toys
Since FDA has obviously declared war on vaping, a bit of war-think could be advisable.
Watch your enemies, but watch your allies closer ( SunTzu )
But:
A large part of the vaping community has had it. FDA reg's just the last straw in a never-ceasing barrage of smear, slander, junk science, out right lies, twisted half-truths, the whole shebang. And they're pretty much fed up to thr brim.
Remember, it all started over a few crates of tea back then...
Well maybe cigars can get their exemption - former POTUS B. Clinton might get them re-classed as adult toys
Yeah - at this point just what we need is another nanny control freak telling us what is acceptable behavior and what isn't. I think not! Sorry, that position has already been taken by various parties in Congress, the FDA, CDC, ACS, ALA, TobaccoFreeKids, Glantz... got it?
We have already tried being all nicey nicey in our approach to this. If a bunch of rabble rouser's want to raise hell and block the entrances at the FDA for a couple few days to make a POINT - more power to them.
The industry may have to be all polite in Court fighting for themselves and tangentially for us in the process. As protesters we don't. Your very recommendations to, basically "be overcautious, best to do nothing" smacks of a conflict of interest and I think we have had enough of that at this point.
Whose side are you on anyway?
Take your Blood pressure Meds~
We need you around later for the important actions aheadSeriously, there are middle roads which should be efficient for promoting our Stand on Personal Choice.
We need to be collected enough to promote those messages without resorting to possibly destructive actions.(no fiery effigies......yet)
http://www.clivebates.com/documents/NicopureComplaint.pdf
Sorry, but I really don't see where you're getting that. The whole post was about the idea of acclimating non-smokers to the fact that vapor is practically odorless when compared to cigarettes, but doing it without being a jerk and treading all over a business owner's rights. Never once did I see where the author said vape em if you got em cause they have no odor.
As far as the calling out, it looks to me like the anonymous replier was ignoring the forest for one particular tree, and the author then re-established that she was contrasting cigarette smoke to vapor in reference to the smell.
This issue strikes right at the heart of the problem in the U.S. today. Is the general public educated enough to speak for itself? Personally I feel so offended at the whole state of affairs that I don't trust myself to demonstrate peacefully without someone a lot smarter than I am to direct my thought process. I think back to the 60s, and the protests they did. Even though everyone was high they were more coherent than Occupy Wallstreet. These days we are more divided because people want to sell things to nicely packaged demographics, and as an added bonus we fight amongst ourselves so we don't pay attention to important issues. Plus we are worked to death, over medicated, fed things that aren't food, etc. Because of those divisions you get a lot of extremely intense but short and ineffective ejaculations of judgment. We can't agree on much of anything, but the neon lights are so bright. One one end of the spectrum you have Kim Kardashian's rear, and on the other you have her dad. Which one's blue? Which one's red?
The sad fact is that people actually care. I, as an American, know for a fact that 90 percent of the people I grew up with are insufferably stupid. Another sad fact is that I actually care about them. That's what "they" use against us, and the sadness is our best weapon. Coldness. The absolute bitterness, utter disappointment, and complete disgust for our fellow man. That is what is underneath it all on our side, and theirs, and that's what I want them to feel. We have participated in a rare phenomenon that is completely free and beneficial, and the people I grew up with weren't so stupid about it. I want someone smarter than me to completely destroy these people inside just like most of the people I see every day of my life are destroyed.
The sad fact is that people actually care. I, as an American, know for a fact that 90 percent of the people I grew up with are insufferably stupid. Another sad fact is that I actually care about them. That's what "they" use against us, and the sadness is our best weapon. Coldness. The absolute bitterness, utter disappointment, and complete disgust for our fellow man. That is what is underneath it all on our side, and theirs, and that's what I want them to feel. We have participated in a rare phenomenon that is completely free and beneficial, and the people I grew up with weren't so stupid about it. I want someone smarter than me to completely destroy these people inside just like most of the people I see every day of my life are destroyed.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked