Why? Are they working to amend it?
There's nothing wrong with Wyatt sharing his experience and starting a discussion. It's very helpful. The problem is with the people who used it as a platform to push their fear mongering agenda.
Urgent Message: State of Oklahoma Bank Cards Being Declined for Vape Shops
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Why? Are they working to amend it?
There's nothing wrong with Wyatt sharing his experience and starting a discussion. It's very helpful. The problem is with the people who used it as a platform to push their fear mongering agenda.
Yep, the bank still doesn't have it right. Cigars are explicitly exempt from the P.A.C.T Act.
I do believe that DC2 is correct that for Ecigs to be part of the P.A.C.T. Act congress would have to change the Act as currently written but as seen in this thread, that doesn't mean ciaos can't be created by those that misinterpret the Act. And if a change is needed there certainly are plenty of people in congress that would be more then happy to sponsor a bill making the change. Not saying here if it would be likely to pass or not but certainly another likely hurdle we will have to face at some point in the future.
I find it most interesting to read the variety of opinions surrounding the topic of this thread. The sky may not be falling yet, but it sure does have a lot of cracks in it.
Regardless of the PACT Act states can pass their own laws restricting online sales.
I don't believe any state has done so yet, but I do know that it has been tried and defeated more than once...
CASAA: Utah Bill to Tax E-Cigarettes and Ban Online Sales -- HB372 (DEFEATED)
In fact, one of those states was Oklahoma...
CASAA: Call to Action! Oklahoma Bill to Tax E-Cigarettes and More -- SB 802 (DEFEATED)
I don't believe any state has done so yet, but I do know that it has been tried and defeated more than once...
CASAA: Utah Bill to Tax E-Cigarettes and Ban Online Sales -- HB372 (DEFEATED)
In fact, one of those states was Oklahoma...
CASAA: Call to Action! Oklahoma Bill to Tax E-Cigarettes and More -- SB 802 (DEFEATED)
The war hasn't yet begun, but be sure one is likely to come.
If the Fda were to come out and back ecigs the results would be catastrophic over night due to their tax loss revenue.
My guess would be atleast 25% over night !
think how many smokers would opt for the healthier alternative and give it a try.
They realize they are looking down the barrel of a gun , so sooner rather than later they are likely to try to slow us down.
If the Fda were to come out and back ecigs the results would be catastrophic over night due to their tax loss revenue.
My guess would be atleast 25% over night !
think how many smokers would opt for the healthier alternative and give it a try.
They realize they are looking down the barrel of a gun , so sooner rather than later they are likely to try to slow us down.
I am pretty sure the BoO would not have responded to the video or a single consumer complaining. It took a community to get a response from them and a solution. There were isoated incident reports coming from multiple states and banks after the initial report (video) was made.
Just because a solution is on the way, does not mean the op was alarmist. That's stupid. If anything it shows what the power of a viedo and the community can do if they want want to. Chalk this up as a minor success and all the more reason to come together as a group, encourage others to pay attention and speak up, to make our perceptions known to those that have the power to take actions. We can do it.
This was proof we can do it.
Just because a solution is on the way, does not mean the op was alarmist. That's stupid. If anything it shows what the power of a viedo and the community can do if they want want to. Chalk this up as a minor success and all the more reason to come together as a group, encourage others to pay attention and speak up, to make our perceptions known to those that have the power to take actions. We can do it.
This was proof we can do it.
I recall how fast the WSJ story referring to a possible back door deal to restrict online sales got an "explaination" (retraction) AFTER there was outrage from the community as a whole. I hope they got scared. But that illustrates the type of response that gets results, make "them" nervous and is needed after every single negative article, comment, video that's put out before the public.
Letting someone else "do it", ignoring the warning signs, thinking there will always be a way around restrictions or even counting on a black market is laziness and wishful thinking. The greatest harm is not making our equipment and nicotine hard to access; the greatest harm will be to current smokers who are never given the opportunity that we've had that enabled us to quit smoking and that could affect multiple generations; our kids, grandkids and great grandkids .... We owe it to them to fght.
It is far easier to nip these shadow attacks before they gain any ground than wait until they become entrenched as the status quo.
Letting someone else "do it", ignoring the warning signs, thinking there will always be a way around restrictions or even counting on a black market is laziness and wishful thinking. The greatest harm is not making our equipment and nicotine hard to access; the greatest harm will be to current smokers who are never given the opportunity that we've had that enabled us to quit smoking and that could affect multiple generations; our kids, grandkids and great grandkids .... We owe it to them to fght.
It is far easier to nip these shadow attacks before they gain any ground than wait until they become entrenched as the status quo.
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Not at all mate, you do own a mattress don't you?
Ty OP for sharing your story, it's my belief a few things could have been changed in the delivery, but alls good. Main thing is Vapeing is a life saving event that were all passionate about because of this, so many feelings well come out. We are a community no matter how each feels good or bad about the way something is presented, remember the goal was reached information was passed and recieved and acted upon.
I sincerely hope many read this entire post and the others put there with same theme, and finally wake up and join CASAA.
We are doing nothing wrong by Vapeing and everyone of us is needed to fight for our life.
Ty have a great day all. Again I'm proud of all ECF members that make up our community.
Um, you think Robino1 and CASAA have a “fear mongering agenda”?
Could not agree more on the FDA issue. Seems they have decided to play hardball by refusing to make any decisions after creating Kaos .
They opened the door for every State and Local government to ASSUME - Ecig=Tobacco while not actually doing anything.
I have a feeling this is to ultimately make their final ruling easier by Claiming this is what the people want - after enough locals set regulations.
Oooooo, thank you for the Get Smart and KAOS memories!
Loved that show.Thank you for all that you do--and just for being you. Not to mention you are the only person I know that can defuse a time bomb while vaping with boxing gloves on.
Just read all this... wow! I've got a around dozen relatives in the Tulsa Oklahoma area that are vapors. I've messaged them to see if they have had any problems yet. When they respond, I'll check back in. This is not how I was expecting to spend my mourning here at ECF!
The bank TOLD him it was a new law applying to ecigs. They were wrong, but they were a bank f'goodness sake!
Hmmm, now THERE is an idea we have not heard enough about. The more intertwined our technology gets, the easier it is to co-opt private businesses into enforcement or cooperation. If the banks are tasked with enforcement, it's a little reminiscent of the phone companies and Snowdon.
I have mixed feelings about this. We'd all by under Germany by now if corporations had not cooperated on commodities tracking, and if communications metadata had not been gathered during WWII. And if the law was something I AGREED with, I'd be upset if the banks did NOT cooperate! I can't think of anything offhand at the moment that isn't 'over the top' but I'm under-caffeinated. (Child prostitution? Illegal (as opposed to legal) tax avoidance? Corporations going after people for using Fennel if Nestle succeeds in patenting it?)
But I need to think about this, actually we all do. Where should the enforcement boundaries stop and should they be tiered? (For instance, there is no difference between the standard of innocence required for conviction vs. execution, and I think there SHOULD be.)
Should some kind of 'clear and present danger' be involved before third parties are coopted as enforcers? What if banks didn't have a code 5993 or whatever?
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That mirrors my experience too and I find it hard to explain. It's a subject that deserves more discussion, just maybe not here but in a seperate thread. I always feel better about a vendor posting their membership with CASAA or some other advocacy group. I tend to feel if they aren't for them, the shop is against them.
I've had conversations with local small tobacco shops and a couple of other vape stores. The equipment offered is pretty much what tobacco warehouses distribute; Blu, Vuse and other BT products. They also distribute lit to store owners about the "dangers of ecigs" and that vape b&m's are not making "safe" eliquids, a bunch of propoganda that they believe because it's all the information they have. They are against the ecig community at large and welcome regulation that they have been assured won't affect them (BS too). They tell their customers the same thing. Mall kiosks are a good example too.
A lot of those type of small shops believe online sales hurt their business and many of them are in for the quick buck. I think most ppl on ECF (which these types of shops have never heard of) avoid these stores because they don't carry what we need or want and the prices are extreme. But someone is buying from them. The answer to this may not be so easy.
The bulk of vendors I thnk are aware this affects their livelhood in one way or another. I have no idea why there hasn't been an informal co-operative assoc. representing them yet.
I think it would be appropiate for CASAA to make a general list of supporting business'. I've used lists like that to shop from before.
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Um, you think Robino1 and CASAA have a “fear mongering agenda”?
Oooooo, thank you for the Get Smart and KAOS memories!
Thank you for all that you do--and just for being you. Not to mention you are the only person I know that can defuse a time bomb while vaping with boxing gloves on.
Robino? Yes. CASAA? I don't know enough about them, but their reps on the forum leave a lot to be desired, IMO. Heresy, I know.
^By "reps" do you mean just members of it who are also ECF members? Folks come in all shapes, sizes, colors, attitudes, ways of communicating and a couple of genders. Go read on the CASAA site to get a clearer vision of what it all about and what it accomplishes to discern its value more accurately. The point is, no matter how you do it, just don't lay down an play dead when being attacked.
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Amen to THAT, I know I sleep better knowing Robin's on my side fighting!!!Um, you think Robino1 and CASAA have a fear mongering agenda?
Oooooo, thank you for the Get Smart and KAOS memories!
Thank you for all that you do--and just for being you. Not to mention you are the only person I know that can defuse a time bomb while vaping with boxing gloves on.
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