Value for money

[Kate]

I've just found out that Janty USA stipulate that their warranty is void if you do not use their juice with their hardware. This ties you into a contract for consumables for the duration of the warranty and makes a difference to the value for money calculations. Ruyan say this in their warranty conditions too.

I'm not sure how to work out the yearly costs but for Janty there isn't a big difference. For Ruyan you get charged an arm and a leg for cartridges so the costs would be more noticeable.

What would make a significant difference for me though would be the limitations of juice available. I like being able to try different brands and flavours and being able to make my own. Another thing is that neither Janty nor Ruyan have published toxicology reports on the safety of their juice, nor do they prove that it is checked for tainted ingredients. They do not even package their eliquid in properly marked and sealed containers, if it was foodstuff it would not be allowed to be sold.

They expect us to be tied into a contract to use this juice ... I might buy it voluntarily but being obliged to buy it is a totally different matter.

 

[Schroedinger's cat]

Beyond the stipulation about the juice/cartridges, Janty USA has a 3-month warranty for batteries, and a 6-month one for atomizers (at least it was so when I looked a couple of days ago).

I recently got into e-smoking, and decided for two sets of generics on the basis of various considerations. One was that I did not want to have to deal with the warranty, etc, as mentioned by others. However, I also figured I could easily lose the e-cigarette, given that I'd carry it around with me at all times, and I'd rather lose something not-so-valuable. Also, I wondered whether it would be possible to argue that a still-working battery had lost so much ability to reatin power that had to be replaced.

In the end, I figured I'd go for relatively cheap, in exchange for not having to argue that htis or that did not work properly. When I got my two starter kits, I got a weak atomizer and a moribund battery. Steve at Puresmoker immediately sent replacements (the battery has died since, in that it would no longer charge).

In three weeks, I have not had a single atomizer problem (beyond the above), but the batteries are decaying rather fast, and I rotate 4. So, maybe I did not make the correct decision, although I still think that I am going to lose at least one of these in the near future....

 

[TropicalBob]

Not sure about how things work in England, Kate, but this Janty warranty is much very much like new car warranties I'm familiar with. If you buy a new Chevy and then start adding NAPA replacement parts and Quickie Lube oil changes, well, you've just voided your warranty. You use genuine Chevy parts and service or you forego the warranty.

This e-device warranty is not dissimilar. For me, I already use only Janty carts and liquid in my Kissbox (it's the best stuff I've found and it's inexpensive, too). When I experiment with homebrew stuff, and I like to, I drip it into a generic pen style or el cheapo mini cigarette.

This clause will no doubt be standard for all e-device makers before long.

 

[Kimmiegrif]

okay the only thing that I am confused about. so you have a janty starter kit. 6month warranty. You periodically buy batteries. One goes bad...how do you know if it is an old or newer battery? How do they know. They should have a serial number to be able to track which battery is which and it would help the consumer too. Until then how can anyone tell?

 

[SMILIN]

You may not believe in the guarantee fairy but I have personal experience that it works. I don't know how long it will last for but in my opinion anybody with any sense will make good use of it. Just think of it as a lease agreement.

What about the eliquid claims you made earlier? Which dealers insist on particular brands of juice being used?

Love from your Sweet (who is very relieved to be on a different planet).

I got a call from Njoy yesterday, and they are sending me 3 more atomizers, along with 6 batteries, pretty good on the guarantee end, no?

 

[SMILIN]

Not sure about how things work in England, Kate, but this Janty warranty is much very much like new car warranties I'm familiar with. If you buy a new Chevy and then start adding NAPA replacement parts and Quickie Lube oil changes, well, you've just voided your warranty. You use genuine Chevy parts and service or you forego the warranty.

This e-device warranty is not dissimilar. For me, I already use only Janty carts and liquid in my Kissbox (it's the best stuff I've found and it's inexpensive, too). When I experiment with homebrew stuff, and I like to, I drip it into a generic pen style or el cheapo mini cigarette.

This clause will no doubt be standard for all e-device makers before long.

I think Janty is the Rolls Royce of ecigs so too, but I also use Janes Kick juice, and Pillbox, Wicked......Mixing is a blast too. I picked up over 40 bottles of kick today, along with 30 bottles of Janty, earlier in the week.8-o

 

[SMILIN]

Lol, yes sorry Jan, it's what Leaford said. We don't know what's in many of the eliquids on sale. Most of the ingredients are not tested for inhaling, even if they are food safe, so we need to be conscious of the potential health damage bad ingredients can cause.

With eliquid saving money is not my first priority. I look for transparency from the seller - such as the information offered by Pillbox and Janty and proof such as lab tests, the clinical tests carried out by Ruyan and Knutselpeter's home residue tests. Next I consider reputation. If a brand has a reputation for clogging atomisers or negative health reactions I would be very cautious about using it. Some brands are recommended by experienced esmokers (such as Leafords recommendation for Freesmoke above), that sways my opinion too. Next I try it and evaluate the taste and vapour quality, if I like it and I have no problems with health or atomisers I might buy it again. My final consideration would be cost. In my view there is so little price difference apart from Njoy and Sedansa that I can treat myself to the best of the rest. I prefer to pay a premium to sellers who are actively working on reducing hazards and producing meaningful test results.

I'm checking out some Janty flavours at the moment but will soon try Freesmoke on Leafords recommendation and I'll likely get some extra high nicotine Wicked for diluting with my diy juice, Pillbox - Wicked's seller is very conscientious about safety.

Thanks Leaford, I'm glad you found it useful. It certainly helps to compare brands on a like for like basis when making consumer decisions. I hope it helps other members to make informed decisions too.

Janes, Kick is just fine, I have seen the testing, and it is all there. You should check it out IMHO, her Coffee, and Chocolate, Stawberry, Cowboy, Kiwi, are Da Bomb, along with her menthol, of course.

 

[SMILIN]

Leaford, which Freesmoke do you feel is best?

 

[SMILIN]

I'm a bit confused by this thread.

What is your definition of value?

Everyone is talking about the dollar amount of these things per unit per year.

Maybe I'm from another planet but I can see both sides of this argument and I can't agree with either.
At least not for the reasons given.

Value or perceived value is very subjective.

A Ford Escort and a Mercedes Benz will both drive you to the store, but does that make the Ford Escort a better value because of price?

I think not.
I've been smoking for 38 years. I smoke a pack and a half a day on average. That's about 9 to 10 US dollars a day!
At those prices I DON'T CARE what it costs for an e-cig.
It's still a better deal than killing myself for top dollar!

Personally I deserve the best.....I work hard all day and I want nothing less.
For $10 a day I can afford to buy a brand new Kissbox extended kit every other week, but I've been lucky and the one I bought is still chugging along after a month and a half with no signs of packing it in just yet.

We have to be fiscally responsible, and we all would like to be driving a Rolls Royce, but we buy what we can afford.

The way I see it,....It's gonna be hanging out of my mouth in the middle of my face......I want something that not only functions well but looks halfway as good as I do.....for me the white generic penstyles just don't cut it.
When someone asks me what I'm smoking I proudly say "It's a Kissbox"...."The best!"
I don't want to say "It's a cheap generic."
Not that there's anything wrong with cheap generics. It's just, in my experience, I've found the draw and innovations of the Kissbox to be a higher quality than any generics that I've tried to date.
For that matter, any E-Cig I've tried to date.

I also believe that as time goes by, the technology will improve and like cell phones, mp3 players, and other electronic devices, as each year goes by, new models with improved performance features will emerge.
Everyone is gonna want the newest that this exploding industry will have to offer.
Cashmere said it in another thread somewhere, that we are living and experiencing a very special event in smoking history......we band of smoking brothers.
We may be the Guinea Pigs for this, but we are also the witness's to something very special indeed.

So.....which ever device you prefer, rest assured that it will not be too long a time before you "upgrade" to the next generation or newest model.

Already you can find the Janty/Sedansa 4 hole atomizers appearing in generics and I'm sure it won't be long before we see generics with manual switchs turning up.

I can't wait to see what kind of improvements the "brand name" manufacturer's have in store, but I'm sure they keep tabs on forums like this one, and are addressing the atomizer/cartridge/battery issues talked about on a daily basis.

We all want to save a buck, but it's up to the individual as to what level they find is comfortable.
I wear $100 Rockport shoes to knock around in and $400 Bally shoes when I dress up. I would never disparage anyone for wearing either. They each have their place and purpose in my wardrobe. By the same token, I smoke $50 generics and a $150 Kissbox.
As far as I'm concerned......they are all great values.

I like the way you think,

I was smoking over 2 cartons a week, thats over 130/wk cigs, so WTF, I have 6 Kissbox Classics, 3 njoys, 10 generics from Jane(best, longest lasting batteries, 8-10 hours, and best generic atomizer) I use different flavors in different devices. I use the USB with all atomizers, and Janty manual...it's fabulous8-o

I just LOVE dat manual switch/USB

 

[Bastage]

"I wear $100 Rockport shoes to knock around in and $400 Bally shoes when I dress up."

 

[Kate]

Not sure about how things work in England, Kate, but this Janty warranty is much very much like new car warranties I'm familiar with. If you buy a new Chevy and then start adding NAPA replacement parts and Quickie Lube oil changes, well, you've just voided your warranty. You use genuine Chevy parts and service or you forego the warranty.

This e-device warranty is not dissimilar. For me, I already use only Janty carts and liquid in my Kissbox (it's the best stuff I've found and it's inexpensive, too). When I experiment with homebrew stuff, and I like to, I drip it into a generic pen style or el cheapo mini cigarette.

This clause will no doubt be standard for all e-device makers before long.

They've changed the terms again and removed the condition now.

If you are going to compare esmoking devices with cars I would liken this requirement to having to buy an essential such as petrol from a particular dealer, no car manufacturer would get away with making that a condition of warranty. Servicing and activities like oil changes are occasional but filling up with fuel is a regular requirement. Petrol standards are regulated to ensure decent quality.

I don't think this clause can be justified, you have different consumer habits in the US I know, I'll watch with interest.

Janty have been conspicuous in their lack of disclosure regarding tests on their eliquid. To be in a position where you have to use it is unreasonable for anyone actively looking for safe juice.

 

[Kate]

Here's an update on some hardware costings:

Smokester's RN4072 classic with one month guarantee. Price £30 Cost of replacement atomisers £6.49 Cost of replacement batteries £7.99. To replace an atomiser and battery every month (that's 11 x extra atomisers and batteries per year) makes the cost of esmoking with this device £189.28 per year. This includes all postage costs but not eliquid or cartridges.

Smokester's DSE901 mini with one month guarantee. Price £30 Cost of replacement atomisers £6.49 Cost of replacement batteries £7.99. To replace an atomiser and battery every month (that's 11 x extra atomisers and batteries per year) makes the cost of esmoking with this device £189.28 per year. This includes all postage costs but not eliquid or cartridges.

Janty's Kissbox classic plus USB battery comes with six month guarantee on switches and atomisers, three month guarantee on batteries. Priced £57.71 + USB cable £15.25 plus postage. Replacement atomisers x 1 = £12.00, batteries x 2 £17.62, USB batteries x 2 = £2.73 (from Dealextreme) and switch x 1 = £9.61. Cost of esmoking with this device £114.92 per year plus postage, not including eliquid or cartridges.

Sedansa's Diva comes with a five year guarantee. It costs £73.98 plus postage. Replacement atomisers, batteries and charger free for five years apart from postage. Cost of esmoking with this device £73.98 per five years plus postage OR £14.80 per year plus postage, not including eliquid or cartridges.

Heaven Gifts Ruyan ecigar comes with a five year guarantee. It costs £36.50 (with five cartridges) including postage. Replacement atomisers, batteries and charger free for five years apart from postage. Cost of esmoking with this device £36.50 per five years plus postage of replacements OR £7.30 per year plus postage of replacements, not including eliquid or cartridges.

Trog's Screwdriver. It costs £100. Replacement atomisers cost £6.49 including postage. To replace an atomiser every month (11 per year) = £71.39. Cost of device per year = £171.39 not including eliquid or cartridges. I don't know about postage charges or how long a battery can be expected to last.

I'd like to compare disposables but don't know what life to expect from a Loong Totem battery or atomiser and the ecig.com ones haven't been shipped yet. Does anyone want to guess how much running one of these costs?

 

[trog100]

the e-cig totem alike assuming it actually exists and comes into being.. will work out cheap if it works.. but so far not one has been seen to be shipped.. i smell big problems..

totem are simply out of the picture cos their batteries are way too expensive.. they are not likely to last any longer than anyone elses..

totem have a problem of their own making.. old totem lets say $99.. made up of expensive atomizer and expensive battery but vaguely adding up to $99..

they turn the atomizer into a $2 dollar part.. they then make the battery a sensible price say $10.. result theirr original $99 price is blown out of the water..

when totem come out with their high priced zippo big battery device screwdriver concept they are back in the big money bracket.. untill then they are only good for those who have no idea what they are buying.. over priced junk..

trog

ps.. anyways lets all buy waynes end of line blings and see what happens to that miraculous warranty.. he he he he... £7.30 per year.. come on kate..

 

[ApOsTle51]

Here's an update on some hardware costings:



Trog's Screwdriver. It costs £100. Replacement atomisers cost £6.49 including postage. To replace an atomiser every month (11 per year) = £71.39. Cost of device per year = £171.39 not including eliquid or cartridges. I don't know about postage charges or how long a battery can be expected to last.

Trog recommends replacing the atomizer every 2 weeks, so you can double that atomizer cost

 

[Kate]

Really Trog, I haven't heard anyone being let down by Wayne. Are you saying he's not running a trustworthy business?

I know Apostle but I wanted to be able to compare with other devices on replacement frequency. Once a month is probably an underestimate.

 

[ApOsTle51]

well as Trog keeps saying , the screwdriver is designed with the heavy esmoker in mind.
It's sold with the heavy esmoker in mind and if your a heavy esmoker then you need to replace the atomizer every 2 weeks.

This comes from the supplier and manufacturer of the device so it's only fair it be calculated with the suppliers instructions in mind.

 

[Kate]

Yep, you're right.

I'll let the heavy esmokers work the costs out themselves, I can't be bothered. To be fair, it means reworking the costs for the other non-guaranteed replacement parts too, the RN4072 and DSE901 prices would also go up.

 

[ApOsTle51]

i don't think the pens and the mini running costs would increase a great deal , they're most certainly not designed or sold with the purpose of heavy usage, again Trog always mentions ruyans avertising claims to that fact also.

I use my mydnite pen every day whilst at home, it has about 6 hours a day use , i've had it for nearly 5 weeks i guess and im still on the original atomizer. Still going as good as the day i got it , i haven't cleaned it or drained it either.

 

[trog100]

Really Trog, I haven't heard anyone being let down by Wayne. Are you saying he's not running a trustworthy business?

I know Apostle but I wanted to be able to compare with other devices on replacement frequency. Once a month is probably an underestimate.

kate.. yes.. if offering a five year guarantee with a product he dosnt even know will be around in one year never mnid five means anything.. but i am suggesting its a little naive for someone like u to take such a totally unproven guarantee and use for it ecig comparative running costs..

and in anticipation of your reply.. no i cant prove a negative.. i cant prove i wont go to heaven or that there isnt a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow..

we do advise an average of two weeks for as new performance with our device.. we talk maximum possible performance.. not how long the death-throws last which could be many times as long..

we.. honest injun.. not speak with forked tongue.. he he


trog

 

[Kate]

Apostle, a 901 atomiser costs the same whether it's for use on a Screwdriver or a 901 battery and I can't see that it would last longer with heavy, medium or light use on either.

Guaranteed devices don't distinguish between heavy and light use, replacements are given when required so the cost remains more constant.