Vapers living with COPD, advice wanted.

[Cool_Breeze]

I neglected a comment on my previous post.

With RA, who knows what all is related, but I've had substantial sinus drainage (post nasal drip). The bulk of that cleared up when I went to 'flavorless.' ...flavorless note now added to previous post.

 

[Hawise]

There's a section on vaping with emphysema in this post in the Health, Safety and Vaping forum you might find useful:

A list of symptoms when quitting tobacco and changing to an ecigarette

The standard advice is that it's best not to vape if you already have damage to your lungs. In my (inexpert, unscientific) opinion, I'm not entirely satisfied with that advice. It is true that it's always going to be better not to vape than to vape (lung damage or not), but that's not the choice most of us here are making. Quitting wasn't going to happen for me any more than it was for your friend, so it was vape or smoke. vaping wins that battle hands down.

As for Jenny, I can only repeat the advice in the post above. If she could switch to Snus or something like that, that would probably be best. If not, vaping seems the best option. MTL is probably better than DL because it involves inhaling less non-air stuff. On the other hand, if MTL doesn't work for her, I'd bet that DL is still a much better bet than smoking. The above post suggests that there might be some benefit to increasing her PG a bit as PG has some anti-bacterial properties.

I have adult-onset asthma and some lung damage from smoking. How much remains to be seen. Adult onset asthma seems to be a family trait, although, as a heavy smoker, I acquired it at a much younger age than my relatives.

For the last four years I smoked, I got pneumonia each spring. In the five years since I switched, I haven't had pneumonia or any sort of chest infection beyond a single case of the flu (and I was amazed that the flu didn't trigger anything worse). I also had an ongoing wheeze when I smoked that now only appears during an asthma flareup or when I use VG at higher than 60% or so. I don't know if I switched to vaping soon enough to save me from the worst damage from smoking, but I do know that it's improved my daily life.

You also also asked what equipment people used. I'm an MTLer. My preferred tank is the Kayfun Prime, although that involves making my own coils. My factory-coil backup is the Nautilus X, although I think the other Nautilus tanks are also good. My juice is usually about 50/50. I get wheezy if my VG gets to high or if I use certain flavours, especially custards.

 

[DeloresRose]

Hi @DeloresRose , thanks for posting and sharing. I would love for my friend, Jenny, to come here and read/post for herself but I dont think she has ever spent more than a couple of minutes looking at a computer screen, very old school.

How long have you been vaping/not been smoking? and have you noticed any change in the effects of the emphysema in your daily life since starting vaping?

I started vaping almost five years ago and quit smoking almost immediately. Honestly I never had great lung capacity even prior to 35 years of smoking and I don’t note any improvement there, but I have had other health benefits, like not coughing in the morning, less acid reflux and heartburn, and I tolerate cold way, way better. And my doctor says my lungs sound great for my age.

 

[JCinFLA]

@Jebbn - Sorry this is so long, but wanted to explain my own experience with my COPD diagnosis and vaping.

After I'd been smoking 1 - 1.5 PAD for 30 years, I was diagnosed with the beginning stages of COPD (emphysema). The diagnosis was based on changes in yearly chest x-rays I'd always had while smoking and on changes my doctor could detect when listening to my lungs during exams. I still smoked for another 12 years, while trying numerous things to quit during that time. However, nothing worked until I tried vaping in Nov. 2013. That did it, and I had my last smoke 2 months later, in Jan. 2014. Have never wanted 1 since then.

I will say that even with that diagnosis years ago, I'd never needed to be on meds for it, and it didn't restrict what activities I took part in. My doctor said it was most likely due to how good my overall health was and how active I've always been.

Anyway...after not smoking for 2 years, and still vaping as much as I wanted to, my doctor had me do a spirometer test and get a chest x-ray. He was so amazed at how good my spirometer results were...that he double-checked with me that I'd honestly smoked as much as I did, and for 42+ years! My chest x-ray actually looked better than it ever had! My lungs sounded totally clear to him during the exam, too. He said that it might be possible, that vaping had actually helped my lungs (and in turn my breathing) get so much better...because of the warm, moist vapor they were exposed to. He also commented that PG is the carrier used in medical inhalers, so there might be a correlation there with the PG in eliquid being helpful when vaped. He gave me a thumbs up and a high-5 at my great results and to my continuing to vape and not smoke. He still does one or the other when I see him every 6 months for check-ups and tell him I'm still vaping.

As far as how, and what, I've been vaping since Nov. 2013:
1) Always low wattage and never subohm - I'm a Tootle Puffer
2) Not DTL, nor even MTL - I inhale vapor only as far as down the back of my throat, hold it there a second or so, then exhale it through my mouth and/or nose. Since nicotine in vapor is absorbed better in the cheek linings, sinuses, and nasal passages...I've never had a problem getting my "nic fix". I've been perfectly satisfied for more than 4 years doing it that way.
3) Started with 50VG/50PG eliquids, but after 6 months changed to 60VG/40PG (found that the slightly higher PG was causing headaches)

I hope some of the above was the kind of info. you were looking for.

ETA: Info I'd forgotten before

 

[Chuck64]

I was diagnosed with copd 10 years ago. I was diagnosed with a genetic clotting disorder 2 years ago after my first pulmonary embolism. (clots lodged in my lungs).
For the last three years have both vaped and smoked. Only in the last few months have I finally cut down to 5 or six cigarettes a day from 2 packs a day.
I'm 53. I grew up surrounded by second hand smoke. I legally smoked in trains, planes, hospital beds, you name it. It's hard to quit something you've done for 40 years.

 

[VapingintheGTA]

Hi.
I What tanks do you use? Do you use flavours or do you vape flavourless?

I just wanted to commend you on your dedication to your friend!

Officially, I have been diagnosed with asthma but have not had further follow ups. My grandma passed away from Emphysema rather young in her life. l was a pre teen, full time smoker and quit after over 35 years of heavy smoking. My average was 1 and 1/2 to 2 large packs per day (35-50 stinkies). At times, I would cough up blood...that scared me and I am an ostrich so l’ve not been back to the respiratory specialist.

I no longer need the steroid inhaler but find lately that I’ve needed to use my salbutamol (rescue inhaler) from time to time. I believe there maybe more going on than asthma. Before l quit and I got a cold it would end up in my lunges and that’s when I would have the debate on visiting the ER.

There has been quite a significant improvement since I quit and started vaping... I most frequently use MTL tanks, and inhale deep into my lungs an will now be exhaling through my nose. I vape at lower wattages and higher nic 50-50 juice. I use the Ares, Siren 2 and SSM RTA the most.

When I feel the need for more nic sometimes I subohm or drip but not as much now as I did a few months ago. I really would like to try a zenith tank cuz building coils is become a bit of a chore and I’ve been reading here on the site that the zenith coils last quite a bit.

Vonnie

 

[Jebbn]

I just wanted to commend you on your dedication to your friend!

Officially, I have been diagnosed with asthma but have not had further follow ups. My grandma passed away from Emphysema rather young in her life. l was a pre teen, full time smoker and quit after over 35 years of heavy smoking. My average was 1 and 1/2 to 2 large packs per day (35-50 stinkies). At times, I would cough up blood...that scared me and I am an ostrich so l’ve not been back to the respiratory specialist.

I no longer need the steroid inhaler but find lately that I’ve needed to use my salbutamol (rescue inhaler) from time to time. I believe there maybe more going on than asthma. Before l quit and I got a cold it would end up in my lunges and that’s when I would have the debate on visiting the ER.

There has been quite a significant improvement since I quit and started vaping... I most frequently use MTL tanks, and inhale deep into my lungs an will now be exhaling through my nose. I vape at lower wattages and higher nic 50-50 juice. I use the Ares, Siren 2 and SSM RTA the most.

When I feel the need for more nic sometimes I subohm or drip but not as much now as I did a few months ago. I really would like to try a zenith tank cuz building coils is become a bit of a chore and I’ve been reading here on the site that the zenith coils last quite a bit.

Vonnie

Hey @VapingintheGTA, thanks.
Old friends are best friends.

I have two zenith tanks, I used one 1.6ohm coil for 7weeks before changing it, not because it was finished but because I wanted to use a 0.8ohm coil. Seemed like waste but I wanted a warmer vape for a while. I ended up getting the 2nd zenith so I could use different coils at the same time.
Everything about the vape of the zenith is smooth, taste and throat hit. Its a workhorse, set and forget tank.

 

[Jebbn]

I was diagnosed with copd 10 years ago. I was diagnosed with a genetic clotting disorder 2 years ago after my first pulmonary embolism. (clots lodged in my lungs).
For the last three years have both vaped and smoked. Only in the last few months have I finally cut down to 5 or six cigarettes a day from 2 packs a day.
I'm 53. I grew up surrounded by second hand smoke. I legally smoked in trains, planes, hospital beds, you name it. It's hard to quit something you've done for 40 years.

Hi @Chuck64, good work mate. Its tough, Im 54 and grew up in similar circumstances. Everyone smoked everywhere. I could never seem to quit no matter what I tried until I took up vaping.

 

[Jebbn]

@Jebbn - Sorry this is so long, but wanted to explain my own experience with my COPD diagnosis and vaping.

After I'd been smoking 1 - 1.5 PAD for 30 years, I was diagnosed with the beginning stages of COPD (emphysema). The diagnosis was based on changes in yearly chest x-rays I'd always had while smoking and on changes my doctor could detect when listening to my lungs during exams. I still smoked for another 12 years, while trying numerous things to quit during that time. However, nothing worked until I tried vaping in Nov. 2013. That did it, and I had my last smoke 2 months later, in Jan. 2014. Have never wanted 1 since then.

I will say that even with that diagnosis years ago, I'd never needed to be on meds for it, and it didn't restrict what activities I took part in. My doctor said it was most likely due to how good my overall health was and how active I've always been.

Anyway...after not smoking for 2 years, and still vaping as much as I wanted to, my doctor had me do a spirometer test and get a chest x-ray. He was so amazed at how good my spirometer results were...that he double-checked with me that I'd honestly smoked as much as I did, and for 42+ years! My chest x-ray actually looked better than it ever had! My lungs sounded totally clear to him during the exam, too. He said that it might be possible, that vaping had actually helped my lungs (and in turn my breathing) get so much better...because of the warm, moist vapor they were exposed to. He also commented that PG is the carrier used in medical inhalers, so there might be a correlation there with the PG in eliquid being helpful when vaped. He gave me a thumbs up and a high-5 at my great results and to my continuing to vape and not smoke. He still does one or the other when I see him every 6 months for check-ups and tell him I'm still vaping.

As far as how, and what, I've been vaping since Nov. 2013:
1) Always low wattage and never subohm - I'm a Tootle Puffer
2) Not DTL, nor even MTL - I inhale vapor only as far as down the back of my throat, hold it there a second or so, then exhale it through my mouth and/or nose. Since nicotine in vapor is absorbed better in the cheek linings, sinuses, and nasal passages...I've never had a problem getting my "nic fix". I've been perfectly satisfied for more than 4 years doing it that way.
3) Started with 50VG/50PG eliquids, but after 6 months changed to 60VG/40PG (found that the slightly higher PG was causing headaches)

I hope some of the above was the kind of info. you were looking for.

ETA: Info I'd forgotten before

Hi @JCinFLA, thanks for your post. No need to apologize for the length of it, I found it all to the point and very useful, I very much appreciate that you took time to post in this thread.

 

[Jebbn]

There's a section on vaping with emphysema in this post in the Health, Safety and Vaping forum you might find useful:

A list of symptoms when quitting tobacco and changing to an ecigarette

The standard advice is that it's best not to vape if you already have damage to your lungs. In my (inexpert, unscientific) opinion, I'm not entirely satisfied with that advice. It is true that it's always going to be better not to vape than to vape (lung damage or not), but that's not the choice most of us here are making. Quitting wasn't going to happen for me any more than it was for your friend, so it was vape or smoke. Vaping wins that battle hands down.

As for Jenny, I can only repeat the advice in the post above. If she could switch to Snus or something like that, that would probably be best. If not, vaping seems the best option. MTL is probably better than DL because it involves inhaling less non-air stuff. On the other hand, if MTL doesn't work for her, I'd bet that DL is still a much better bet than smoking. The above post suggests that there might be some benefit to increasing her PG a bit as PG has some anti-bacterial properties.

I have adult-onset asthma and some lung damage from smoking. How much remains to be seen. Adult onset asthma seems to be a family trait, although, as a heavy smoker, I acquired it at a much younger age than my relatives.

For the last four years I smoked, I got pneumonia each spring. In the five years since I switched, I haven't had pneumonia or any sort of chest infection beyond a single case of the flu (and I was amazed that the flu didn't trigger anything worse). I also had an ongoing wheeze when I smoked that now only appears during an asthma flareup or when I use VG at higher than 60% or so. I don't know if I switched to vaping soon enough to save me from the worst damage from smoking, but I do know that it's improved my daily life.

You also also asked what equipment people used. I'm an MTLer. My preferred tank is the Kayfun Prime, although that involves making my own coils. My factory-coil backup is the Nautilus X, although I think the other Nautilus tanks are also good. My juice is usually about 50/50. I get wheezy if my VG gets to high or if I use certain flavours, especially custards.

Hi @Hawise, thanks for posting and for the links.
Interesting about the pneumonia as it is a problem for Jenny. She is very cautious about being anywhere near anyone who has a cold or the flu for fear of catching it and it developing into something worse.

 

[ilporcupine]

Hey @ilporcupine , thanks for the info, Ive only just today come to understand what a blanket term COPD is and your post kinda puts it all into place for me regarding the different aspects of it.

Right now she is vaping 90vg 10pg...... I guess a couple of drops of DW as well, so maybe 88/9/3 (shrug)
How long have you been vaping and have you noticed any positive or negative effects from vaping in relation to your COPD?

I have only been off cigs for ~6months, so it is really too soon to tell.
My hope at this point is to keep what lung function I do have, and try to avoid the big C, if I can.

 

[Grimwald]

I have COPD with 35% lung function after 40+ years of heavy smoking. Vaping has helped a lot rather than smoking.

I cannot do heavy VG so I Vape unflavored at 80% PG 20% VG. I've tried better tanks but find I need to stick to older Protank, evod, or T3 type tanks (or older Kayfun). Vape at 8-10 watts. No big clouds for me. Just MTL smoking substitute.

Too much VG gives my heavy lungs and nasal drip.

 

[VapingintheGTA]

I have COPD with 35% lung function after 40+ years of heavy smoking. Vaping has helped a lot rather than smoking. I cannot do heavy VG so I Vape unflavored at 80% PG 20% VG. I've tried better tanks but find I need to stick to older Protank, evod, or T3 type tanks (or older Kayfun). Vape at 8-10 watts.
Too much VG gives my heavy lungs and nasal drip.

Thank you l will be upping my PG and rethinking my vaping experience. These posts have been very helpful for me(the ostrich).
Vonnie

 

[Jebbn]

I have COPD with 35% lung function after 40+ years of heavy smoking. Vaping has helped a lot rather than smoking.

I cannot do heavy VG so I Vape unflavored at 80% PG 20% VG. I've tried better tanks but find I need to stick to older Protank, evod, or T3 type tanks (or older Kayfun). Vape at 8-10 watts. No big clouds for me. Just MTL smoking substitute.

Too much VG gives my heavy lungs and nasal drip.

Hi @Grimwald, thanks posting.
What is it about the "older Protank, evod, or T3 type tanks" that you prefer?

 

[Grimwald]

Hi @Grimwald, thanks posting.
What is it about the "older Protank, evod, or T3 type tanks" that you prefer?

I wish I could explain it. I guess it is just less harsh vapor at lower wattage (7-10 watts). When I try even something a little better like a nautilus or tron tank that produces more clouds, I just start getting a tight chest feeling. Perhaps it is the type of old style coils...don't really know why.

 

[440BB]

The first person I helped make the transition to vaping had COPD yet returned to Parliaments every time she tried to quit. Her breathing was already compromised to such a degree that I ended up learning what jcinfla mentioned - that inhalation wasn't needed for nic absorption.

Simply puffing like a cigar and holding it for a moment in her mouth with fairly high nic was the technique that worked for that COPD sufferer and may work for your friend. Good luck!

 

[Jebbn]

The first person I helped make the transition to vaping had COPD yet returned to Parliaments every time she tried to quit. Her breathing was already compromised to such a degree that I ended up learning what jcinfla mentioned - that inhalation wasn't needed for nic absorption.

Simply puffing like a cigar and holding it for a moment in her mouth with fairly high nic was the technique that worked for that COPD sufferer and may work for your friend. Good luck!

Hi, @440BB, thanks for posting.

Thanks all. I appreciate the help and advice Ive gotten here. Ive relayed the information/opinions/advice etc in this thread, the links provided and whatever bits and pieces Ive found on teh webz to my friend.
Over the last week she seems to be finding her way quite well, she has found her preferred nic level, refined her technique, seems happier with higher vg unflavoured juice and is generally smoking quite a bit less.
One comment she made was that vaping seems/feels more like she imagines pipe smoking to be like than cigarette smoking, Ive often thought the same thing tbh. So today I ordered a couple of longer, curved, pipe style drip tips, one for me and one for her, partly as a joke and partly just to satisfy my curiosity.
Cheers.
I

 

[Coyote628]

After 42 yrs of 2ppd smoking, im pretty sure i have some degree of COPD. I just dont go to doctors unless im dying, lol. But, i vape sub ohm at 6mg nic level and although i didnt start out that way, stopping cigs for vaping did allow my lungs to clear up, no wheezing or the popping and crackling sounds when i go to sleep. The main reason i suspect COPD is that even though my lungs sound clear, i still get somewhat short of breath on extreme exertion. But like i said, my natural progression in vaping led to sub ohm, and i am able to do huge clouds. I get huge flavor and enough nicotine this way as well. Everybody is different, for sure, but in the end getting off cigarettes is key. Even with COPD, i believe vaping is possible and a much better alternative to cigs. I hope this bit of info helps.