Vapers living with COPD, advice wanted.

[Jebbn]

Hi.

I would mainly like to hear from vapers with COPD.

I have a good friend with COPD. She became interested in vaping as she watched me quit smoking after starting to vape. She questioned me about everything to do with vaping and eventually I gave her a couple of devices, an Endura T22 kit and an aspire zelos mod with another T22 tank.
She took to vaping with a determination that really amazed me. She worked hard on her technique and got it down very quickly.
Recently she accidentally let slip that she had been diagnosed with COPD 2yrs ago but after trying everything hasnt been able to quit cigs. She has reduced the number of cigs she smokes over the last 3-4 weeks while vaping.

Any advice I had previously given her was without me having any knowledge of her having COPD.

In this thread I would like to hear from people with COPD. I would like to know a few things about your vape set ups and juice you use and why you chose these set ups and juice.

So,
What tanks do you use?
What ohms and watts do you use and vape at?
Do you MTL or DL? Do you inhale to the lung or more of a mouth inhale and then straight to nose exhale?
What PG/VG ratio do you use?
Do you use flavours or do you vape flavourless?

I would also be very interested in how vaping has helped or worked against you living with COPD.

I have read a few medical/research papers regarding COPD and vaping but I would really like to hear from people living with it.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Possum64]

I would mainly like to hear from vapers with COPD

Hello @Jebbn. You sound like a caring friend. I don't know much about COPD and vaping but I did a quick search on this forum and there is quite a bit of information from our members who do have this condition. Apologies if you have already done a search - just thought I would offer this suggestion.

 

[ilporcupine]

COPD is a bit of a blanket term. It covers emphysema as well as chronic bronchitis. They also used it to cover a certain type of athsma, in the past.
The symptoms are different, for the different diseases underlying, so the way people who are suffering from it vape are probably varied as well. After a spirometric test my doctor diagnosed as COPD. He said I had 'emphysema-like" changes in my lungs, based on xrays, but stopped short of actually diagnosing me as having emphysema.
My vaping is all over the place. Mostly use MTL type devices, low watts/higher ohms. But I like a little more draw that the Kayfun, or eGO stuff. I have been everywhere from 90% VG, to 100% PG, and at 3mg to 24mg. Some tobacco flavors, but now mostly unflavored, since my sinuses will not allow me to taste it anyway. Fairly tight draw but still basically DL. I like menthol, to help fend off coughing and dry mouth.

Large amounts of vapor make me cough, but I could do huge amounts of cig smoke. I could smoke 2 cigs in a 10 minute break, even with the walk time to get outside. But the PG especially, makes me cough.
Your friend will probably have to do some trial and error, just like we all do, just to figure out what is best. Bronchitis suffers will have a Phlegm thing, whereas Emphysema dries and hardens lung tissue. If you have allergies or other complications, you could suffer both. (As I do). If she can do "non-inhale", she can still get the nicotine absorption, without the lung irritation. Hard for an ex-smoker to do and be satisfied, though.

 

[DeloresRose]

I have mild emphysema. It really was not a consideration in how I vape. I mtl and dl, use several levels of nic and various vg/pg ratios, whatever works with the tank. I sometimes feel like a stealth vape, mostly subohm at home.

Whatever I need to keep off the smokes, I say.

Whatever style is most comfortable for your friend is far better than cigarettes, and he or she might want to join the forum and get ideas as to what looks like a good fit.

 

[Jebbn]

Hello @Jebbn. You sound like a caring friend. I don't know much about COPD and vaping but I did a quick search on this forum and there is quite a bit of information from our members who do have this condition. Apologies if you have already done a search - just thought I would offer this suggestion.

Hey @Possum64 , thanks, yeah i did a search and have read quite a lot of threads and posts from up to 7yrs ago. I had to search members full post history(stalking!) who posted in those threads and read through them all to get their full story.
Ive also read a few research papers that I found in Google Scholar regarding vaping and COPD emphysema, bronchitis etc
I just wanted to see where current vapers were at with it and try to get some information from posters here all in one spot.

 

[Jebbn]

I have mild emphysema. It really was not a consideration in how I vape. I mtl and dl, use several levels of nic and various vg/pg ratios, whatever works with the tank. I sometimes feel like a stealth vape, mostly subohm at home.

Whatever I need to keep off the smokes, I say.

Whatever style is most comfortable for your friend is far better than cigarettes, and he or she might want to join the forum and get ideas as to what looks like a good fit.

Hi @DeloresRose , thanks for posting and sharing. I would love for my friend, Jenny, to come here and read/post for herself but I dont think she has ever spent more than a couple of minutes looking at a computer screen, very old school.

How long have you been vaping/not been smoking? and have you noticed any change in the effects of the emphysema in your daily life since starting vaping?

 

[dennism]

I was diagnosed with copd about 8 years ago, vaping with no cigs for the past 5 years. My copd hasn't gotten any better nor has it gotten worse, I am on anora an inhaler medication. Has vaping helped my copd situation, I really don't know, but I think it has. My lung doctor says vaping is better than smoking, but no vaping is better. I like vaping, it has kept me from cigs so I'm sure I will continue. To answer your questions, I dl (sub ohm) at 35 to 50 watts, depending on which device I use. I use (diy) 30pg/70vg/3mg nic. and do about 125 mls a week (beats chain vaping cigs). In summation I think vaping has helped my copd and it saves me money.

 

[Jebbn]

COPD is a bit of a blanket term. It covers emphysema as well as chronic bronchitis. They also used it to cover a certain type of athsma, in the past.
The symptoms are different, for the different diseases underlying, so the way people who are suffering from it vape are probably varied as well. After a spirometric test my doctor diagnosed as COPD. He said I had 'emphysema-like" changes in my lungs, based on xrays, but stopped short of actually diagnosing me as having emphysema.
My vaping is all over the place. Mostly use MTL type devices, low watts/higher ohms. But I like a little more draw that the Kayfun, or eGO stuff. I have been everywhere from 90% VG, to 100% PG, and at 3mg to 24mg. Some tobacco flavors, but now mostly unflavored, since my sinuses will not allow me to taste it anyway. Fairly tight draw but still basically DL. I like menthol, to help fend off coughing and dry mouth.

Large amounts of vapor make me cough, but I could do huge amounts of cig smoke. I could smoke 2 cigs in a 10 minute break, even with the walk time to get outside. But the PG especially, makes me cough.
Your friend will probably have to do some trial and error, just like we all do, just to figure out what is best. Bronchitis suffers will have a Phlegm thing, whereas Emphysema dries and hardens lung tissue. If you have allergies or other complications, you could suffer both. (As I do). If she can do "non-inhale", she can still get the nicotine absorption, without the lung irritation. Hard for an ex-smoker to do and be satisfied, though.

Hey @ilporcupine , thanks for the info, Ive only just today come to understand what a blanket term COPD is and your post kinda puts it all into place for me regarding the different aspects of it.

Right now she is vaping 90vg 10pg...... I guess a couple of drops of DW as well, so maybe 88/9/3 (shrug)
How long have you been vaping and have you noticed any positive or negative effects from vaping in relation to your COPD?

 

[Jebbn]

I was diagnosed with copd about 8 years ago, vaping with no cigs for the past 5 years. My copd hasn't gotten any better nor has it gotten worse, I am on anora an inhaler medication. Has vaping helped my copd situation, I really don't know, but I think it has. My lung doctor says vaping is better than smoking, but no vaping is better. I like vaping, it has kept me from cigs so I'm sure I will continue. To answer your questions, I dl (sub ohm) at 35 to 50 watts, depending on which device I use. I use (diy) 30pg/70vg/3mg nic. and do about 125 mls a week (beats chain vaping cigs). In summation I think vaping has helped my copd and it saves me money.

Hey @dennism, thanks for taking the time to respond. I appreciate it.
I was worried that higher VG might be problematic but it seems not.
I spent a week in Annapolis traveling to Stevensville every day to visit the PRS factory. It was a great time.

 

[Anise]

I was just starting to get COPD. I have the beginning of it. I started vaping and cutting back on cigs (down to 1 or 2 a day). My breathing is easier at night but still not great, especially if I chain vape an rda. My Dr's are divided about vaping but they all agree its better than smoking.
I vape 70/30 vg/pg or max vg with 6% nic. I've been chain vaping but cutting back on that too. If it weren't for the problems at night I'd say vaping fixed the COPD but I guess some things are beyond fixing. I just know in the six months or so since I really started vaping my COPD hasn't gotten worse. I can live with that.

 

[stols001]

I came quite close to COPD and had pneumonia from my 3 ppd habit for about 18 months. It did not go away until I started vaping and I have some scarring on a lobe of my lung.

The common recommendation is MTL setup (less vapor to irritate the lungs) and even, if it's a Very advanced case, MTN vaping, meaning vapor's not inhaled AT ALL, just held in the mouth and expelled through the nose. I find that a less satisfying way to vape, frankly. I also will say, higher PG is often recommended as VG can sometimes cause a "heavy" feeling in the lungs. I am PG sensitive, so I used high VG and my lung function STILL improved, although I was a bit more "plegmy" at max VG.. I now use a PG alternative and have noticed a difference.

I fell of the vaping wagon for a bit after getting to a year of vaping (I'm back on it) and I am quite sure my lung function had improved, because if I did that early ON, I would have been coughing, choking and etc., with only a few cigarettes.

The main thing (IMHO) would be assisting your friend in achieving such a satisfying vape that she quits altogether because that is what is needed for long term recovery to take place. It's certainly true that reducing is a worthy and noble goal in and of itself, but if she can get to 0 cigarettes for a while, her lung function MAY improve, and I do stress the MAY and it depends on a ton of factors (how advanced the COPD is, etc.). She could try higher strength nic and/or WTA (Whole tobacco alkaloid juice) if she can afford it. That was KEY to my detox the first time and believe me at 3 ppd I was still DETOXING but it removed the "I want to chew through steel or a human being," that I encountered at about 3 p.m. every day. She may also just wind up quitting "naturally" too, I mean it hasn't been long but if she is really having trouble with those last few cigs, I'd consider maybe recommending WTA, there are tons of threads on it so you can do a search.

I'd also recommend she check in with her doctor as I am not one, but it sounds like she is having good success already. I was able to rid myself of ALL inhalers plus like, my nebulizer, steroids, endless rounds of abx etc. Vaping was a lifesaver.

I highly doubt I will ever have "perfect" lungs I was a heavy smoker for a LONG time, but man, Vaping was a godsend for me and my lungs. Etc.

Anna

 

[Maytwin]

He said I had 'emphysema-like" changes in my lungs, based on xrays, but stopped short of actually diagnosing me as having emphysema.

Like ilporcupine, I was also told recently I had slightly emphysematous-like lungs based on xrays in that they were a little wide. The Doctor told me that if I never smoked again, it would not get any worse. He actually said my lungs "looked lovely" !! I was so pleased with what he said I actually forgot to tell him I vaped but the fact they were looking good says to me that vaping is not doing any further harm.

I've not had a cigarette in well over 4 years and MTL vape 70PG/30VG with flavours. At the moment I'm mostly using an iStick 30 with an Innokin Zenith tank - 0.8 coil at 14 watts or the 1.6 at 8 watts and the set-up suits me just fine.

For further reading, try checking Professor Ricardo Polosa who is a respiratory expert - this page is a useful one.

 

[Jebbn]

Like ilporcupine, I was also told recently I had slightly emphysematous-like lungs based on xrays in that they were a little wide. The Doctor told me that if I never smoked again, it would not get any worse. He actually said my lungs "looked lovely" !! I was so pleased with what he said I actually forgot to tell him I vaped but the fact they were looking good says to me that vaping is not doing any further harm.

I've not had a cigarette in well over 4 years and MTL vape 70PG/30VG with flavours. At the moment I'm mostly using an iStick 30 with an Innokin Zenith tank - 0.8 coil at 14 watts or the 1.6 at 8 watts and the set-up suits me just fine.

For further reading, try checking Professor Ricardo Polosa who is a respiratory expert - this page is a useful one.

Hi @Maytwin, thanks!
4yrs, nice work.
I gave her a couple of Innokin T22 tanks and she has used my Zenith tanks and liked the idea of them, the top fill slot and easy no mess coil change. I really like the Zenith tank.
Thanks for the link.

 

[Cool_Breeze]

I haven't told my COPD story here before, but here goes...

History: 42 years of heavy smoking...2 PAD or more. Began vaping 7+ years ago and didn't smoke (one deviation...had about a carton's worth of 'stuff them yourself' tobacco and tubes that after a couple of years of vaping, I re-moisturized the tobacco and made cigs just to get rid of the material that had been sitting around. I smoked 5 or 6 a day (outdoors) for about a month until the supply was all gone).

After 1 or 2 years of vaping, a spirometer test at an allergist's office offered no indication of anything. X-Rays in the past 7 years have shown 'clear lungs.'

Initially I had psoriatic type symptoms...dry and flakey skin. I began a move towards Max VG over a couple of years. About 3 1/2(?) years ago, I began to develop Rheumatoid Arthritis. Treatment for that has been very successful and most symptoms (pains anyway) minimal to non-existent.

Shortly after the development of RA, I began suffering fatigue while mowing the lawn. I had to give it up and had it done by someone else for 2 years or so. Complaints of fatigue to RA Nurse Practitioner lead to visit with Cardio folks and a Pulmonary physician at the first of this year. Initial diagnosis was COPD - Chronic Bronchitis with emphysema added at follow-up visit. Initial treatment Anoro Elipta and then Albuteral added after follow-up for times when I knew I would be exerting myself. Six month appointment showed improvement. I now take two puffs of Albuteral and can mow the lawn as I used to (push mower). The explanation for fatigue under exertion was that after a while I was using up my blood oxygen and not enough was getting to my muscles (especially my quadriceps)...all good on that account now.

So, significant signs of COPD showed up several years after taking up vaping and essentially no cigarettes. That's not to say I hadn't laid ample groundwork earlier. Also, normal aging processes are in play.

My vaping style for the past 9 months or so has been MTL, Max VG, ~35 or 40 watts preheat for .4 seconds and ~12 watts thereafter. This I do with 5% (50mg/ml nicotine) and oh, yes...flavorless.

 

[Cool_Breeze]

...I vape 70/30 vg/pg or max vg with 6% nic. ...

@Anise - Clarification please... Is that "6% nicotine," or 6mg/ml (which is ~0.6%)? 6% is about 60mg/ml.

 

[Anise]

@Anise - Clarification please... Is that "6% nicotine," or 6mg/ml (which is ~0.6%)? 6% is about 60mg/ml.

Sorry it's 6mg/ml or .6%. I make that mistake all the time

 

[Jebbn]

I haven't told my COPD story here before, but here goes...

History: 42 years of heavy smoking...2 PAD or more. Began vaping 7+ years ago and didn't smoke (one deviation...had about a carton's worth of 'stuff them yourself' tobacco and tubes that after a couple of years of vaping, I re-moisturized the tobacco and made cigs just to get rid of the material that had been sitting around. I smoked 5 or 6 a day (outdoors) for about a month until the supply was all gone).

After 1 or 2 years of vaping, a spirometer test at an allergist's office offered no indication of anything. X-Rays in the past 7 years have shown 'clear lungs.'

Initially I had psoriatic type symptoms...dry and flakey skin. I began a move towards Max VG over a couple of years. About 3 1/2(?) years ago, I began to develop Rheumatoid Arthritis. Treatment for that has been very successful and most symptoms (pains anyway) minimal to non-existent.

Shortly after the development of RA, I began suffering fatigue while mowing the lawn. I had to give it up and had it done by someone else for 2 years or so. Complaints of fatigue to RA Nurse Practitioner lead to visit with Cardio folks and a Pulmonary physician at the first of this year. Initial diagnosis was COPD - Chronic Bronchitis with emphysema added at follow-up visit. Initial treatment Anoro Elipta and then Albuteral added after follow-up for times when I knew I would be exerting myself. Six month appointment showed improvement. I now take two puffs of Albuteral and can mow the lawn as I used to (push mower). The explanation for fatigue under exertion was that after a while I was using up my blood oxygen and not enough was getting to my muscles (especially my quadriceps)...all good on that account now.

So, significant signs of COPD showed up several years after taking up vaping and essentially no cigarettes. That's not to say I hadn't laid ample groundwork earlier. Also, normal aging processes are in play.

My vaping style for the past 9 months or so has been MTL, Max VG, ~35 or 40 watts preheat for .4 seconds and ~12 watts thereafter. This I do with 5% (50mg/ml nicotine).

Hi @Cool_Breeze, thanks for taking the time to post this, I appreciate it.
I also smoked for 42yrs, Ive only been cig free for coming up 9months. While Im happy with my progress there is an underlying fear that I may discover previous cigarette inflicted damage further down the track.
While your story may not be overly encouraging to a new vaper with copd hoping for a silver bullet in vaping it is what it is and Im glad you posted it here. Cheers.

 

[AttyPops]

The biggest thing any of us can do (when ready) is to get completely off the combustibles.
I think the rest is "best vape that works for you". Refine it later, after getting off the cigs.



Maybe explain to your friend about the "dual use, dual risk" issue. But don't push too hard, they have to be "ready" and encouraged/supported.

Wishing everyone well and best progress.

 

[Doctorvapes]

My girlfriend has copd. She used to dl but now mtl on an Ares rta at 13.5 watts with 35pg 65vg 9mg juice. It is flavored.

She has issues when she dl as it is too much for her but if she mtl she is fine and way better off than cigarettes. When she smokes cigarettes eventually she gets hospitalized.

 

[Bookworm]

No COPD here but I do have asthma, which I think can be similar when it comes to vaping.

For me, I can only do MTL, and only low watts. Really high VG can cause issues for me, I try to stay around 50/50. Flavors don’t seem to make anything worse, but of course it’s different for everyone.

Overall, my asthma seems better when I vape and stay off the smokes.

ETA: It is very important for me to stay very hydrated when I vape. Vaping can dry me out and can affect my breathing. That doesn’t happen if I am drinking a lot of water.