Wait, what? You only smoked 1 carton per MONTH? That is only about 1/3 pack per day. I would think you should have been able to put that down no sweat.
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Wait, what? You only smoked 1 carton per MONTH? That is only about 1/3 pack per day. I would think you should have been able to put that down no sweat.
It's because vaping is easier to do so people chain vape.
Treat it the same as a cig, go outside to do it, don't do it on busses, trains, subways or at work. You'll soon cut down to about .5ml a day like me which includes
3 sessions in the morning of about 10 puufs each replicating my 3 morning cigs
2 sessions at work for which I still go outside and never vape at my desk
4 sessions at home in the evening while watching tv
Unlimited session if out at bar at weekend, same as with cigs.
I go through around 5ml a week.
This way you DON'T get oversensitized to the nic and need to go up a level
Don't get over-sensitized to one or two basic flavors and need to try others and all kinds of malarky
Don't need more than an ego 650 batty as you don't need harsher th or bigger clouds of vapor.
I realized when I first got my ego I chain vaped all day and then thought to myself 'what the hell am I doing this for it's pointless.'
Now my vape sessions feel more like a treat and I'm happy with an ego with tanks and a cpl of flavors (virginia, menthol, RY5.) A dripping session once in a while is still dreamy though......
Treat it the same as a cig, go outside to do it, don't do it on busses, trains, subways or at work. You'll soon cut down to about .5ml a day like me which includes
3 sessions in the morning of about 10 puufs each replicating my 3 morning cigs
2 sessions at work for which I still go outside and never vape at my desk
4 sessions at home in the evening while watching tv
Unlimited session if out at bar at weekend, same as with cigs.
I go through around 5ml a week.
This way you DON'T get oversensitized to the nic and need to go up a level
Don't get over-sensitized to one or two basic flavors and need to try others and all kinds of malarky
Don't need more than an ego 650 batty as you don't need harsher th or bigger clouds of vapor.
I realized when I first got my ego I chain vaped all day and then thought to myself 'what the hell am I doing this for it's pointless.'
Now my vape sessions feel more like a treat and I'm happy with an ego with tanks and a cpl of flavors (virginia, menthol, RY5.) A dripping session once in a while is still dreamy though......
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Perceived value is whatever someone is willing to pay. Actual value is whatever it costs to produce. The difference between the two is called profit. Perception is of course subjective, and unfortunately, constantly manipulated with neuro-linguistics/psycho semantics via mass media, advertising, entertainment, sports, discussion forums.....
I live in New Jersey next to new york. Cigarette packs in these states cost around $10 a pack and more in NY. I was a pack a day smoker.
I use cignot.com to buy my ecig supplies. A 20 ml bottle of my menthol juice costs $9. Each tank cartomizer I buy costs $2. I use my ecig a lot, and I get about 3 days from each tank carto and 4-5 days from each bottle. So the cost for me each week is similar to buying about 1.5 packs of cigarettes, as opposed to 7 packs if I smoked analogs still.
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I use cignot.com to buy my ecig supplies. A 20 ml bottle of my menthol juice costs $9. Each tank cartomizer I buy costs $2. I use my ecig a lot, and I get about 3 days from each tank carto and 4-5 days from each bottle. So the cost for me each week is similar to buying about 1.5 packs of cigarettes, as opposed to 7 packs if I smoked analogs still.
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No one is forcing you to vape or spend money on expensive juices - get the patch and quit using that method.
there are plenty of cheap juice vendors.. have at it.
I spent a good amount starting off.. now I'm stocked up for the next year - I haven't spent more than 20$ in the last 30 days.. and don't plan on spending anymore until the summer is over.
there are plenty of cheap juice vendors.. have at it.
I spent a good amount starting off.. now I'm stocked up for the next year - I haven't spent more than 20$ in the last 30 days.. and don't plan on spending anymore until the summer is over.
My vaping expense is about to go down to very little a month. But while I have bought a bunch of juices from a couple of vendors to try I am finding out that the two juices I started out with are still my go to vapes I have found that nothing else I buy do I like as much as the first two I tried and I have quite a few big bottles of them. I have ego's and no plan to buy any bigger or better like mods. I have carto tanks and quite a few cartos to replace the old ones when they go out and when I do buy some more they are only $1.79 each. So I since I am not spending $45 or more a week on cigs, I will now not be spending much on ecigs for a long time and I have been vaping over 6 months now. So yes the start up on ecigs seems expensive but you will get to the point that you are satisfied with what you already have.
Motoring can be expensive if you buy a Lamborghini, but you don't need one for day-to-day travel. I would suggest looking at a variety of different e-cig and juice vendors' web sites (including FastTech) and make price comparisons. You will find that the more time you spend doing this, the less money you will spend. You could argue that your time is worth more than the savings you make - fine, then pay more. If you decide that vaping has become a hobby for you then the "hobby" aspect should be budgeted for separately to your normal "needs". Vaping can be very expensive, very inexpensive or somewhere in the middle. The fact is that there are usable devices out there that cost very little - in fact devices and consumables have never cost less than they do now. Can the same be said for tobacco? In all areas of life there is a "luxury" category which most people don't bother with. It's up to you whether you go there or not but if you decide to then complaining about price would seem perverse. 
Now that I have been vaping for over 6 months (awesome!!!!) I have "leveled out" on my purchasing, and I spend less than 50 dollars a month on supplies.
Being in NY, where analogs are 10+ a pack, I am spending less a MONTH than I was spending a WEEK.
Even if you factor in the whole "trial and error" part the last 6 months, I am spending and have spent a lot less.
To each their own, I guess.
Being in NY, where analogs are 10+ a pack, I am spending less a MONTH than I was spending a WEEK.
Even if you factor in the whole "trial and error" part the last 6 months, I am spending and have spent a lot less.
To each their own, I guess.
I always tell people that are interested in vaping that there will be some initial expense in vaping.
Once you find the setup for you, you will start to save money, how much you save is up t you.
As far as your spiritual angst is concerned, I am confused by all your mixed references.
Some of them are downright contradictory. You can not strip away ego ( a more concise term would be
self identity ) and still talk about becoming more sociocentric (?). To be part of a society, you
have to identify yourself with that society, yes? Besides, how can that be the natural course of
development, when humans are not social. Society is a forced construct brought about by overpopulation.
The hierarchy of the pack is the norm for the human animal, not the community of the herd.
And, at the base of that, humans are selfish, possibly the only selfish species on the planet.
Individualism is a necessity for the human psyche, not a problem. You must know, understand, and
accept yourself, in order to survive "society". There is your spiritual journey.
Once you find the setup for you, you will start to save money, how much you save is up t you.
As far as your spiritual angst is concerned, I am confused by all your mixed references.
Some of them are downright contradictory. You can not strip away ego ( a more concise term would be
self identity ) and still talk about becoming more sociocentric (?). To be part of a society, you
have to identify yourself with that society, yes? Besides, how can that be the natural course of
development, when humans are not social. Society is a forced construct brought about by overpopulation.
The hierarchy of the pack is the norm for the human animal, not the community of the herd.
And, at the base of that, humans are selfish, possibly the only selfish species on the planet.
Individualism is a necessity for the human psyche, not a problem. You must know, understand, and
accept yourself, in order to survive "society". There is your spiritual journey.
Blahhhhh. Vaping is pretty much as cheap as you make it. MBV makes some of the BEST juices to be found and they're only like $7/$8 a 30ml bottle. You save even more than that by getting 250ml bottles. I have a friend that only vapes TopVapore and that's cheap too (though imho not as great tasting as MBV, though I do really like their Sweet Carolina tobacco flavor which is almost like RY4 but more butterscotch than caramel). There's also DIY. Rebuildable tanks make the hobby/habit even cheaper as far as delivery systems go. Add on a device that uses real batteries instead of those stupid disposable units and you save yet even more money. If you really want to cheap out, get 1000mah batteries. Sure they only last like 24 hrs in an APV before needing a recharge, but you can nab two for around $10, and if you get an intellicharger that stops charging once they reach full capacity instead of using those basic Trustfires that come with most kits, they last forever. If you can do the above and just hold off on buying devices and new delivery systems constantly, you'll make SIGNIFICANTLY HUGE savings. I usually buy a new $100+ device every 6 mo. or so myself (hello, my name is Jonquil and I'm a tech addict....) and I STILL manage to save TONS compared to what I spent on analogues. You just got to figure out where your priorities lie.
Where is your basis for this analysis? Humans are pack creatures. Sure we're not meant to be in HUGE droves like we are forced to do in modern society, yet we also still feel a need for some sense of community, thus are not anti-social naturally as this post implies. Individualism is not very highly recognized by modern societal norms, and that is where a LOT of psychological issues spring from, including anti-social personality disorder, which is the disorder you're implying people have by nature. The small pack (or tribe) recognizes the individual's strengths and weaves the individuals in to a group effort towards survival and thriving. In a normal pack or tribe, each member has a unique strength and role in the group, thus recognizing one's individuality. Yet, the group stays together, thus completing the individual's social needs as well. The standard tribe has no hierarchy... neither does the pack or herd. Yes, there is always a leader, but that is a role the same as any other, NOT a dictatorship i.e. hierarchy. Additionally, the human race would be extinct by now if we WERE loners. Do you think a single person can take on a saber tooth or mammoth by himself? Have you ever taken any kind of psychology, biology, anthropology, humanities, or behavioral science class? Because your conclusions make no sense within any of those fields...
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Be careful. I won't name names but I bought a batch of juices from a cheap vendor and every single one was a huge disappointment. I ended up going back to my more expensive brand and using the cheap ones to fill out the good ones.
Just something i read on the net..
I can appreciate your soul searching.. and i freely admit my vaping is an addiction. I'm OK with that addiction, for now.
As far as your saying vaping has no real benefits.. could you elaborate? Other than it hasn't been beneficial to your wallet.. you have not benefited from vaping in other ways?
OP, I can't figure your math unless you're buying a lot of equipment and experimenting with juice that you decide to toss away (for me one of the heavy risks with cheap juices).
I pay @$17/30ML bottle because I love a particular line, which matters a lot to me. Most of the better juices run about that, IME. (I'm not persuaded that the new $30/bottle juices aren't a well-packaged scam - very little specific disclosure re ingredients.)
I was a very heavy smoker and I chain vape all day.
When I started vaping 3 years ago a carton of Marlboros was running upwards of $85, 1+ per week. (NY)
I can spend about that per month on juice and have some left over. (I never have established exactly how much juice I run through because I have a lot of bottles running in any given month, but I know how much $$ I send out.) Once stocked with system supplies it's really a small outlay there.
It was more expensive at first when I was experimenting with new systems a lot. I wasted a lot of juice, too. But even without the incredibly thrifty DIY option (not for me just now) and bargain juice vendors (ditto so far for me) if you hold off on buying every new gadget you should be able to invest in new equipment now and then and still save considerably.
I think that a lot of the perception that it's expensive has to do with impulse and hobby-level buying. I'm into tea. Do you have any idea what a really serious hobby tea drinker can spend on tea? It's insane. Plus all those fabulous infusers and beautiful japanese teapots and...
But you can drink delicious tea, good quality tea, well brewed, for really very little. Just watch out for the pretty websites.
I pay @$17/30ML bottle because I love a particular line, which matters a lot to me. Most of the better juices run about that, IME. (I'm not persuaded that the new $30/bottle juices aren't a well-packaged scam - very little specific disclosure re ingredients.)
I was a very heavy smoker and I chain vape all day.
When I started vaping 3 years ago a carton of Marlboros was running upwards of $85, 1+ per week. (NY)
I can spend about that per month on juice and have some left over. (I never have established exactly how much juice I run through because I have a lot of bottles running in any given month, but I know how much $$ I send out.) Once stocked with system supplies it's really a small outlay there.
It was more expensive at first when I was experimenting with new systems a lot. I wasted a lot of juice, too. But even without the incredibly thrifty DIY option (not for me just now) and bargain juice vendors (ditto so far for me) if you hold off on buying every new gadget you should be able to invest in new equipment now and then and still save considerably.
I think that a lot of the perception that it's expensive has to do with impulse and hobby-level buying. I'm into tea. Do you have any idea what a really serious hobby tea drinker can spend on tea? It's insane. Plus all those fabulous infusers and beautiful japanese teapots and...
But you can drink delicious tea, good quality tea, well brewed, for really very little. Just watch out for the pretty websites.
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Have you noticed the posts about Mt. Baker Vapor? American made juice, and you can choose your own ratio... all PG, all VG, or varying combinations of both. Again, $7-$8 per 30ml bottle... even cheaper if you go with the largest size available, 250ml for $40.
Addiction only has a hold on you if you LET it have a hold on you. You managed to quit analogues, right? That's a huge step by itself considering you managed to quit your addiction to tar, which has quite a few addictive carcinogens in it. Nicotine is the only one down to go, and it's the LEAST physically addictive out of everything you were addicted to in analogues. Personally I've been bumping back the nic in my juices every couple of months... I'm down to 12mg now. From there it will be 6mg... then ZERO and I'm done. If I vape after that, it is merely a hobby from that point onwards, and I never plan on adding nic back in to my juices if I do. Again, you've got to evaluate WHY you're vaping. Is it to quit your addiction to smoking, nic itself, or the oral habit altogether? Is it a hobby? Etc. From there you have a ground to walk upon on figuring out what you need to change.
MANY people have addictions, and it's not just chemicals, either. Shopping, gambling, visual media like TV/movies, games, junk food, collecting things, etc. Again, here's the question of what you value the most. Enjoyment? Freedom from ALL addictions or just this one? Etc.
The MAJOR point for you is that you need to know yourself and what you value most, i.e. get out of denial (which you called rationalizing, which is only one of the many symptoms of denial). Then you can set up a goal list, and from there you can plan out steps to carry out those goals... and then DO it.
The statement about freedom has me wondering if your birth number (numerology) is a 5 (I'm a 5 myself). If so, you may take interest in the book "The Life You Were Meant to Live" by Dan Millman. VERY in depth book that can help you figure yourself out and ask the right inner questions to help you achieve your goal of ultimate freedom.
"Shedding ego and attachment" is a little off... everyone has an ego, you can't get away from it. But it's not a negative thing as many people think. It's what makes you an individual, and what governs your deepest desires. Without an ego, you would not desire that freedom you speak of. Attachment is yet another symptom, but not of ego... of dependence. THAT is what you sound like you want to shed... dependence... once you learn to become truly independent, that is when you will experience true freedom.
I hope these posts I have made helps you... or someone out there. Anyone interested in shedding the chains of addictions would do well to utilize this resource: http://internetofthemind.com. It's a free self help online resource designed by an addictions therapist who set up the site to serve as a resource for his clients when he is not personally available to them... he also wanted to make a free resource on the net to help those that may not seek out help in any other form.
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Funny.. i bought a sampler pack from an expensive juice vendor and the only upside was nice packaging, a card from a card deck and some colored strips of paper..
QUOTE from xjonquilx
Where is your basis for this analysis? Humans are pack creatures. Sure we're not meant to be in HUGE droves like we are forced to do in modern society, yet we also still feel a need for some sense of community, thus are not anti-social naturally as this post implies. Individualism is not very highly recognized by modern societal norms, and that is where a LOT of psychological issues spring from, including anti-social personality disorder, which is the disorder you're implying people have by nature. The small pack (or tribe) recognizes the individual's strengths and weaves the individuals in to a group effort towards survival and thriving. In a normal pack or tribe, each member has a unique strength and role in the group, thus recognizing one's individuality. Yet, the group stays together, thus completing the individual's social needs as well. The standard tribe has no hierarchy... neither does the pack or herd. Yes, there is always a leader, but that is a role the same as any other, NOT a dictatorship i.e. hierarchy. Have you ever taken any kind of psychology, biology, anthropology, humanities, or behavioral science class? Because your conclusions make no sense within any of those fields... QUOTE
Um, a hierarchy is not a dictatorship. It is a structure. In a human pack, there was one alpha male,
and a hand full of males who wanted to be alpha but could not displace the current alpha. The rest
of the males were subservient and allowed in the pack as long as they contributed. The female
structure was similar. In modern terms I would not say these packs were social, if they encountered
another pack they would posture ( threaten ), attack, or run away. In the terms of the pack, only the
direct family members were anything that you could consider a social unit, and even that would shift
as the hierarchy shifted. Only when packs became large enough and numerous enough that they couldn't
avoid each other any more did the need for a formalized ritual of greeting and commune became necessary.
The seeds of society was born.
I did not say humans were naturally anti-social, I said they were not naturally social. The individual did
not have "social needs", they needed to survive. I said man was selfish. The individual needed to survive,
he wanted his mates to survive because they could help him hunt for food so that HE could survive.
HE was willing to join a pack with a strong alpha and a stable structure so that more individuals could
hunt better and HE could survive. Homo Sapiens survived as hunter/gatherer packs for a very long time
before man became numerous enough to "need" a social structure. Agriculture was the catalyst for your
"social needs". The family unit became more stable and man had to move from the pack hierarchy to the
communal society with everyone "filling a role" as you said. You could still say this was a selfish impulse
and not a social need. If the individual did not learn to work as a part of this new society, it was harder
to Survive. This is extremely basic anthropology, and I have probably over simplified the concepts,
but they are true at the root of it.
Where is your basis for this analysis? Humans are pack creatures. Sure we're not meant to be in HUGE droves like we are forced to do in modern society, yet we also still feel a need for some sense of community, thus are not anti-social naturally as this post implies. Individualism is not very highly recognized by modern societal norms, and that is where a LOT of psychological issues spring from, including anti-social personality disorder, which is the disorder you're implying people have by nature. The small pack (or tribe) recognizes the individual's strengths and weaves the individuals in to a group effort towards survival and thriving. In a normal pack or tribe, each member has a unique strength and role in the group, thus recognizing one's individuality. Yet, the group stays together, thus completing the individual's social needs as well. The standard tribe has no hierarchy... neither does the pack or herd. Yes, there is always a leader, but that is a role the same as any other, NOT a dictatorship i.e. hierarchy. Have you ever taken any kind of psychology, biology, anthropology, humanities, or behavioral science class? Because your conclusions make no sense within any of those fields... QUOTE
Um, a hierarchy is not a dictatorship. It is a structure. In a human pack, there was one alpha male,
and a hand full of males who wanted to be alpha but could not displace the current alpha. The rest
of the males were subservient and allowed in the pack as long as they contributed. The female
structure was similar. In modern terms I would not say these packs were social, if they encountered
another pack they would posture ( threaten ), attack, or run away. In the terms of the pack, only the
direct family members were anything that you could consider a social unit, and even that would shift
as the hierarchy shifted. Only when packs became large enough and numerous enough that they couldn't
avoid each other any more did the need for a formalized ritual of greeting and commune became necessary.
The seeds of society was born.
I did not say humans were naturally anti-social, I said they were not naturally social. The individual did
not have "social needs", they needed to survive. I said man was selfish. The individual needed to survive,
he wanted his mates to survive because they could help him hunt for food so that HE could survive.
HE was willing to join a pack with a strong alpha and a stable structure so that more individuals could
hunt better and HE could survive. Homo Sapiens survived as hunter/gatherer packs for a very long time
before man became numerous enough to "need" a social structure. Agriculture was the catalyst for your
"social needs". The family unit became more stable and man had to move from the pack hierarchy to the
communal society with everyone "filling a role" as you said. You could still say this was a selfish impulse
and not a social need. If the individual did not learn to work as a part of this new society, it was harder
to Survive. This is extremely basic anthropology, and I have probably over simplified the concepts,
but they are true at the root of it.
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Umm... how do you know more than the researchers do about ancient human behavior? It's kind of like the person I ran in to the other day claiming Venus of Willendorf was a fertility symbol and not any form of God, when in reality no one can figure out WHAT the use of the figure was because it pre-dates any kind of written documentation. The most we know we can observe in a. animals and b. tribes. While it is true that some animal packs do behave this way, not all of them do... and most primal tribes, both historical and modern day, simply DON'T. For example, a chief in a Native American tribe is not viewed as a figure of power or authority, but simply a leader. And if you really want to get deep in to anthropology, they believe that the behavior of children as they develop mimics the evolution of man. Children have no sense of "alpha", "beta", "gamma", etc. In fact kids don't even really FIGHT each other until they get quite older and in the stage of development that anthropologists compare to early villagers... which comes AFTER tribe and pack stages.
Anti-social and "not social" mean the same thing if you want to talk Latin roots. "Anti" means "opposite". But I wasn't talking roots; I was talking personality disorders, which you evidently have no knowledge of in order to debate it.
As for hierarchies and dictatorships, I was identifying the form of hierarchy you've been discussing. A hierarchy is merely any system in which something or someone is ranked one above the other. A dictatorship is when one person has control and/or power over the rest of the group. Neither of these describe the early behavior of children OR the behavior of most tribes. And whether you believe it or not, most healthy people today DON'T desire the "alpha" position. This kind of behavior is pretty exclusive to those with mental disorders, which continue to be grossly under-diagnosed. A healthy person is social, but feels no need to exert power/authority/etc. over others... they do, however, feel the urge to be social and share with others/help them. They maintain a healthy balance between meeting their needs and extending their skills to others. They are self-focused in that they take care of themselves but have no interest in controlling other people. Now we could debate this in to the ground, but that's all I care to say about this topic since you are obviously not even going to consider that you *might* be wrong in your assumptions. Personally, I will not even entertain the idea that your projection of humanity is as you state. I did at one time, and it led me through a miserable existence... which is why at my very core I know this ideology is the wrong way to go if one wants to be happy in their lives. I have LIVED under that kind of hierarchy, dictatorship, whatever you want to call it... and am much happier now that I have gotten away from that type of thinking and that type of existence. Either way, it's pretty unrelated to the current topic, so I'm jetting off. Ciao.
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well sure, I don't buy from these cheap vendors either.. but if you are complaining about $ being spent like the OP.. either buy cheaper juice or don't make a thread about it lol
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