Vaping giveaways raise eyebrows at state capitol

[sofarsogood]

I think this is a brilliant idea to overcome vaper apathy. Is there a practical way for vendors on this board to do this? Could it be done online generally? If there is an opportunity here it should not be ignored. (Foreign vendors and manufacturers would not be participating except in their home countriies.)

Edit, A refinement to this idea would be an additional prize for best written peice. Perhaps the entries for that could be public and readers could decide that prize winner. There are lots of possibilities and lots of properous vendors who could put up the prizes.

Local News | The News Tribune

"Email your state lawmaker, get entered to win free stuff. That’s one of the lobbying techniques used this year by some stores that sell electronic cigarettes, which vaporize liquid nicotine to mimic the sensation of smoking tobacco. In a contest promoted by a pro-vaping group, customers who emailed legislators to oppose new taxes on vapor products were entered into a drawing for prizes, including free nicotine liquid every month for a year."


Read more here: Vaping giveaways raise eyebrows at state Capitol | Politics | The News Tribune

 

[faeriekitsune]

If you read to the end though, the lawmakers aren't happy with the fact that people are just contacting them to win prizes or get discounts and the organization putting on the contest is under investigation for breaking rules about grassroot lobbying.

“I don’t think they’re being completely transparent,” said Rep. Paul Harris, R-Vancouver. “I had someone who said, ‘I’m in Bubba’s Smoke shop’ — a smoke shop in my district — ‘and I’m getting a discount for calling you.’ And I go, ‘Really?’”

“The weight you give to an email or a phone call changes when you discover the person who is contacting you is doing it because they’re going to get a discount,” said Pollet, who said he has received thousands of emails and phone calls about vaping bills since January.

Honestly, I think it undermines everything we've done so far, as now the lawmakers will look suspiciously at everything vaping related that crosses their desk like the petition that Lessifer has been working on. He's got like 15000 signatures in less than a week, simply by social media and forums.

IF they want to keep promoting stuff like this in shops, why not have a petition sheet next to the register? Sign and get a discount. That way it's part of a larger movement. Or have a script for the phone calls so that people know basically what to say and don't sound like idiots.

I appreciate the fact they're getting to get people caring and active about the proposed bills, but throwing everyone else under the bus is not the way to do it.

 

[zoiDman]

An Interesting Concept.

On one side I like doing things that Generate Awareness and Promote contacting ones Representatives.

But on the Other side, Calls and Letters to Reps can be seen as Not Legitimate. And only done to receive some Monetary Discount.

 

[sofarsogood]

Speaking for myself, I don't like form letters as an incentive. I think it's best when a person sits down and writes their opinion in their own words. I don't consider a low percentage chance to win a prize as a corrupting influence. I might agree that a discount on a purchase is more suspect. Regardless, people who vape want unrestricted access to the products they buy. It would be productive for more of those people to express themselves politically. What proper ways are available that will actually work?

How do we assess get out the vote campaigns that might include driving people to their polling place? What about political gatherings where free food is served? Where do you want to draw the line? Offering a prize for best written or a chance to win raffle style does not trouble me.

 

[choochoogranny]

Some smart reporter could ask a legistar about the use of lobbyists and "walk around money" doled out at election time, but then that might be asking too much.

 

[Kent C]

An Interesting Concept.

On one side I like doing things that Generate Awareness and Promote contacting ones Representatives.

But on the Other side, Calls and Letters to Reps can be seen as Not Legitimate. And only done to receive some Monetary Discount.

Yeah, like someone's cutting in on their business

 

[zoiDman]

Speaking for myself, I don't like form letters as an incentive. I think it's best when a person sits down and writes their opinion in their own words. I don't consider a low percentage chance to win a prize as a corrupting influence. I might agree that a discount on a purchase is more suspect. Regardless, people who vape want unrestricted access to the products they buy. It would be productive for more of those people to express themselves politically.

There is an Old Say'n... "Perception can be Reality".

Introducing the thought in a Policy Maker's Mind that the Only Reason they are being contacted is to Win a Prize or get a Shopping Discount is a Not the Perception I would like them to have.

And to be Honest with you, If the Only way we can get People to Contact their Reps is to Offer them chance to Win an RTA, or get a 20% Discount on a Bottle of e-Liquids, then we have Already Lost.

 

[Lessifer]

I'm a little torn on this. On the one hand, I think someone really needs to believe what they're saying when they're making a statement. On the other hand, if an offered discount brings you into the store and you read the data sheet and then form an opinion, that's a really good thing.

“The weight you give to an email or a phone call changes when you discover the person who is contacting you is doing it because they’re going to get a discount,” said Pollet, who said he has received thousands of emails and phone calls about vaping bills since January.

Another word for someone like that is "consumer," you know, someone who would actually be affected by the legislation. Of course, you can't give consumers too much weight... I mean there are so many other people to consider, like the poor politicians who have to balance a budget with dwindling MSA payments.

A 10% discount isn't an expenditure by a vape shop, it's marketing. There are vendors who have a perpetual 10% discount for ECF members.

 

[AndriaD]

I'm a little torn on this. On the one hand, I think someone really needs to believe what they're saying when they're making a statement. On the other hand, if an offered discount brings you into the store and you read the data sheet and then form an opinion, that's a really good thing.



Another word for someone like that is "consumer," you know, someone who would actually be affected by the legislation. Of course, you can't give consumers too much weight... I mean there are so many other people to consider, like the poor politicians who have to balance a budget with dwindling MSA payments.

A 10% discount isn't an expenditure by a vape shop, it's marketing. There are vendors who have a perpetual 10% discount for ECF members.

I just realized another excellent reason I so enjoy reading your posts -- very very few are capable of using "affected" properly, rather than "effected", or just skipping the whole problem and writing "impacted." Impact is a noun!


Andria

 

[Lessifer]

I do try that one still gets me sometimes though

ETA @AndriaD ugh, still getting used to this new forum software. So many times I intend to quote, I click the little quote button, and forget to INSERT the quote.

 

[AndriaD]

I do try that one still gets me sometimes though

ETA @AndriaD ugh, still getting used to this new forum software. So many times I intend to quote, I click the little quote button, and forget to INSERT the quote.

That one has never given me a bit of trouble, and 99.99% of spelling doesn't, either. But there is one word that still confounds me, after all these years: "neither." I have to write "either" and then put an n in front.

But after coming in 1st-runner-up in a spelling bee in 5th grade, I never ever again misspelled a word with double letters -- after enough repetitions of "A-B-B-R-E-V-I-A-T-I-O-N" it really sank in.

Andria

 

[Kent C]

One I found helpful.....

affect vs. effect : Choose Your Words : Vocabulary.com

"Choosing between affect and effect can be scary. Think of Edgar Allen Poe and his RAVEN: Remember Affect Verb Effect Noun. You can't affect the creepy poem by reading it, but you can enjoy the effect of a talking bird."

Exception - when "effect" as a verb, means 'to bring about' - to effect change

 

[azb8496]

IF they want to keep promoting stuff like this in shops, why not have a petition sheet next to the register? Sign and get a discount.

I agree, except for the discount part. When I was shopping for a bow a few years ago in NY, the owner of a local shop had a petition on the counter refuting the SAFE Act. No discounts or strings attached, but I can't imagine anyone who came in didn't sign it (including members of the local police force).

I don't think we need any more incentive than it being the right thing to do. Paying people to act, politically, doesn't sit well with me. And while contacting a lawmaker takes a bit more effort, petitions are easy. That's a much better idea to offer everyday citizens IMO. And if the petition doesn't get the required sigs, at least you may get some people thinking about the politics and the implications.

 

[azb8496]

This is a very interesting situation; politicians complaining that people's voices are being financially, not genuinely, influenced, and I can't help but laugh in my head at their hypocrisy.

I agree with that sentiment though. This is a slippery slope.

 

[Lessifer]

I agree, except for the discount part. When I was shopping for a bow a few years ago in NY, the owner of a local shop had a petition on the counter refuting the SAFE Act. No discounts or strings attached, but I can't imagine anyone who came in didn't sign it (including members of the local police force).

I don't think we need any more incentive than it being the right thing to do. Paying people to act, politically, doesn't sit well with me. And while contacting a lawmaker takes a bit more effort, petitions are easy. That's a much better idea to offer everyday citizens IMO. And if the petition doesn't get the required sigs, at least you may get some people thinking about the politics and the implications.

This is a very interesting situation; politicians complaining that people's voices are being financially, not genuinely, influenced, and I can't help but laugh in my head at their hypocrisy.

I agree with that sentiment though. This is a slippery slope.

Yeah, it's a bit funny because the idea just irks people in the wrong way, I mean paying for influence, that's just wrong. Unless you're a lobbyist, or making campaign contributions, or donating to a PAC...

 

[azb8496]

Yeah, it's a bit funny because the idea just irks people in the wrong way, I mean paying for influence, that's just wrong. Unless you're a lobbyist, or making campaign contributions, or donating to a PAC...

Precisely.

I'm generally all for fighting fire with fire under certain circumstances and to a certain extent, but I see two very bad effects from this. 1, it doesn't cast the industry in a favorable light to outsiders. 2, think about the impact of this practice being drawn out to extremes.

 

[choochoogranny]

Which is exactly going on right now AGAINST vaping. Picture pharma dangling their "educational" grants and donations to certain "health groups" and lobbyists for tobacco promising to sweeten some legistor's campaign fund. What? We got 10% off if we sign a petition or contacting our reps?! We're not even close to the "big leagues". This inducement might get some people politically aware and active for the first time in their lives. Although, it might make them sick to see how it works now-a-days. Losing innocence is hard.

 

[Kent C]

Picture pharma dangling their "educational" grants and donations to certain "health groups" and lobbyists for tobacco promising to sweeten some legistor's campaign fund.

Yeah, the last one from the FDA was what? $270 million vs. a discount on a few eGos and clearos and eliquid

 

[caramel]

Pollet, D-Seattle, said he thinks it is “fundamentally wrong to offer a financial inducement for someone try to influence legislation.”

Dunno why I have the image of the alphabet soup charities and other antz organizations manning the FDA workshops....

 

[EBates]

AMEN! Choochoo!
When the shoe is on the other foot the 'Politicians' Cry Foul. They get 'Freebies' From Every Lobbyist and Special Interest Group Under The Sun. How do you think they can run Multi-Million Dollar Campaigns And Stay In Office?
As With All Things Political, FOLLOW THE MONEY!