Vaping: Good or Bad? BT will clear that up soon enough.

[ScooterGirl]

I'm actually quite amazed that since the FDA ruling Big T hasn't jumped on board the vaping bandwagon. After all, they aren't stupid. They know which way the wind is blowing and it sure as heck isn't in favor of tobacco. They aren't worried about putting out a product that might compete with their cigs as the rush to put out snus shows. They have all the lab equipment to deal with anything related to tobacco and nicotine and they could be making a fortune with cartridges labeled Marlboro or Camel or Winston or Newport which, with all their resources, would actually taste like a Marlboro or Camel or Winston or Newport. So why oh why haven't they jumped on board the vaping bandwagon? IMO the answer is lawsuits. They've already been dragged over the coals once and they probably aren't keen on introducing a product the side effect of which are practically unknown. Which leads me to my point. I'll bet they're working on that right now, tons of white mice lined up in little boxes vaping PG and VG and tobacco extracts and flavorings, trying to determine if vaping is truly safer than smoking or just another Pandora's box of lawsuits and once they know we'll know too, for better or for worse.

 

[tat2d4life]

BT will always chase the money... Its why they started making snus orbs ect.... They wanted to keep people happy in the face of smoking bans everywhere, and maybe keep a few who wanted to quit smoking hooked.. I have no doubt they are studying vaping.. They know if vaping keeps catching on, then they can introduce the next"big thing" to keep shareholders happy..

I was just watching modern marvels the other day on how they actually make ciggs, and all I can say is eww .... if they make a joose like they make an analog, I will never be a customer... =/

 

[LibertariaNate]

BT will always chase the money... Its why they started making snus orbs ect.... They wanted to keep people happy in the face of smoking bans everywhere, and maybe keep a few who wanted to quit smoking hooked.. I have no doubt they are studying vaping.. They know if vaping keeps catching on, then they can introduce the next"big thing" to keep shareholders happy..

I was just watching modern marvels the other day on how they actually make ciggs, and all I can say is eww .... if they make a joose like they make an analog, I will never be a customer... =/

Not sure how BT "chas[ing] the money" is better or worse than any other industry or company. I thought profits were why businesses existed. They can't all be altruistic like the government.

No doubt BT is looking into e-cigs. It would be silly not to and there focus on more smokeless products leads me to believe they are.

That Modern Marvels episode was an eye opener to say the least.

 

[Aunt Cranky]

I would never buy juice from BT, even if it tasted like a favorite analog.

Why? Because they would cut corners at every angle to increase their profit margin. We would never really know "all" that was in them, kind of like the prefilled carts you get from the mall kiosk - Generic Cheap Chinese Juice(TM)

If they sold battery/atty kits with carts you could fill as you choose, maybe.. maybe I would buy them if I lost my pv, battery / atty death, etc.

More likely their products would be like a disposable pre-filled proprietary carto / battery design. Something just a bit too small or too large to fit a 510 atty, etc. Crummy battery life, meant to be disposable to keep folks buying the product.

Meh.

 

[tat2d4life]

There is nothing wrong with chasing money per say, but the biggest problem I have is when any big company uses its resources to snuff out competition and bribe the Govt ,as with the case of Pharma, and BT will have their impact on public policy of e cigs... its a threat and they will pay handsomely to rewrite the rules in their favor...

A few years back I was reading how they bought up all the rights to nic flavored water,not that I would try it, but whats to say that they won't do the same with e juice and pv's


yea I always wondered when I smoked why some analogs tasted "off".. floor sweepings and out of date ciggs , reconstituted tobacco sugars to make the nic more addictive....

 

[BardicDruid]

Well one of the biggest problems facing BT in getting into e-cigs is that Hon Lik of Ruyan patented all his e-cigs in the USA, so if they want to use something that will compete they'll have to go to Ruyan to get the licensing fees. That's why they tried to buy Ruyan, but Hon Lik has all the patents under his name and not the companies. So it now looks like BT & the FDA are waiting for an american e-liquid mixer to mess up a batch and make a bunch of people sick then they'll have the ammunition they need to ban e-cigs outright for public safety. And that will end the era of the e-cig, after all peoples safety are not what concerns them just the bottom line.

 

[ScooterGirl]

My interest in Big Tobbaco's involvement wasn't so much for the end product they'd produce (which I agree would probably be loaded with the usual 599 additives!) but their test results. Because of the lawsuits I'm willing to bet that if and when they get into vaping there will be full disclosure as to the health risks. THAT is what I'm looking forward to and while I don't trust them completely I'd trust them more than the federal government. The lawsuits have forced some honesty out of Big T; so far I can't think of anything that has forced honesty out of the government. Yeah, I'm talking to you, FDA!

 

[pieman]

The way i look at it is, if there were any negative side effects you could bet your ... they would have found it, and the government would be jumping to pump up the tax.

 

[sidetrack]

Big tobacco has a whole new market, Asia. Natgeo had a good program on this very issue last month. At this point more people still smoke than vape and untill that changes they have no incentive to pour money into research and developement and retooling their factories. They are allowed to advertise in foreign countries and do, very predatory towards young people. Reminded me of how it used to be here in the 50's & 60's. Shamefull how many lives will be lost.....needlessly.

 

[Aunt Cranky]

The thing is, we already more or less know the pros and cons of nicotine usage. Can aggrivate high blood pressure, dilates blood vessels, is addictive. The positives is that it seems to give some protective benefit against certain brain diseases, and provides some relief to those with adult ADHD (much in the same way that other stimulant drugs would). At least that's what I know of. Not to mention, it gets folks to kick analogs - which we all know causes lung disease, etc.

The "unknown" is all about the effects of the delivery mechanism. PG vs. VG, and the host of assorted flavorings and additives used by different manufacturers.

As I said in my previous post above, I would not trust BT and the FDA to do right by the American public and offer full disclosure on the ingredients (how may years and countless lawsuits did it take before they told us all the crap they put in analogs?)

I also would not like to see them drive the mom & pop shops out there who make great liquid, and sell quality parts, out of business. That could happen, or the govt. could tax and regulate them out of business.

A similar type of phenomena is happening in various states with regards to smaller craft breweries (Wisconsin comes to mind). The big daddies of the beer business are working with various states to more or less "regulate" these small businesses - out of business (licensing changes, brewing practices, etc.)

I would hate to see the same thing happen to the vaping community.

 

[woody55]

From what I understand PG and VG have been used at times as delivery systems for asthma medications, I have two children and a wife that are severe asthmatics. Me personally, I have been under treatment for high blood pressure since I was 18yrs old. In the last 12 days that I have not had a real analog just an ecig with 12mg nic I feel better than I have in years. My blood pressure is in better shape than ever( I am not struggling to breath anymore!), let me tell you that after 40yrs of smoking that is a major accomplishment! We know that if BT and the FDA could find something wrong with the ecig system they would be all over it as it is putting a serious crimp in their monetary intake! But I believe we need to watch our backsides because BT and the FDA will find someway to undermine what we do! At least that is my 2cents worth!

 

[Clinton]

The lawsuits have forced some honesty out of Big T; so far I can't think of anything that has forced honesty out of the government.

Well said!

lol... yeah I don't think we'll ever get complete honesty from the gov. no matter what we do. And oh how I would love a tour of Area 51

 

[JustaGuy]

A few century old industries are slower to change directions due to corporate culture and BT is one of them, maybe one reason. BT may also feel confident they can deal with the new upstarts at their leisure. It's not hard to win a competition when the referee (government) is on your side. Their lobbyists may be at work this very moment (in a Cuban cigar lounge) to level the playing field with a $1 per bottle tax on nic juice. I can see saliva slithering down the Capitol steps.

 

[ScooterGirl]

As I said in my previous post above, I would not trust BT and the FDA to do right by the American public and offer full disclosure on the ingredients (how may years and countless lawsuits did it take before they told us all the crap they put in analogs?)

I also would not like to see them drive the mom & pop shops out there who make great liquid, and sell quality parts, out of business. That could happen, or the govt. could tax and regulate them out of business.

A similar type of phenomena is happening in various states with regards to smaller craft breweries (Wisconsin comes to mind). The big daddies of the beer business are working with various states to more or less "regulate" these small businesses - out of business (licensing changes, brewing practices, etc.)

I would hate to see the same thing happen to the vaping community.

The fact that BT has already been caught with their pants down to the tune of $206 billion makes in unlikely, IMO, that they would want to be caught in yet another massive lawsuit that costs them a fortune and damages their image even further. That's why I feel that they would want a full analysis of the damage, if any, caused by vaping before jumping into the market.

I agree that it is sad that the Mom & Pops will suffer when BT jumps on board; here's to hoping that BT's reputation goes against them at that point ("Yeah, it taste like a Marlboro because of the 599 additives!") and continue to buy their juice from the microbreweries of the ejuice world. Given their marketing power though I'm afraid newbies will start, and stop, with BT products. Hmm, maybe when I win that Powerball I can form a coalition of Mom & Pop stores and buy some ad space in People magazine.

 

[ScooterGirl]

A few century old industries are slower to change directions due to corporate culture and BT is one of them, maybe one reason. BT may also feel confident they can deal with the new upstarts at their leisure. It's not hard to win a competition when the referee (government) is on your side. Their lobbyists may be at work this very moment (in a Cuban cigar lounge) to level the playing field with a $1 per bottle tax on nic juice. I can see saliva slithering down the Capitol steps.

I don't think BT is slow to change direction. It was RJ Reynolds after all that first introduced the whole idea of vaping, albeit while still using plant material as the base. Hmm, now that I think about it maybe the whole Premier/Eclipse multi billion dollar boondoggle has soured BT on vaping. I hope so (though I'd STILL like to see some sort of real study).

 

[swedishfish]

What's happening with ecigs and the FDA is very similiar to what happened with saccharin. In 1969 one the basis of one flawed study, the FDA banned the use of saccharin. Because of public support, congress proposed a moratorium on the ban and in 1992 after further studies were done the FDA lifted the proposed ban.

I have no idea who was behind the 'public support' probably the saccharin industry. But that took 30 years.

 

[izabella]

I'll bet they're working on that right now, tons of white mice lined up in little boxes vaping

That image made me laugh. Do they use tiny e-cigs to vape? Did they used to smoke tiny cigarettes and switched to vaping? Are they modding in their spare time? And do they have a Forum??

Sorry.

Back to your regularly scheduled program...

 

[JustaGuy]

I don't think BT is slow to change direction. It was RJ Reynolds after all that first introduced the whole idea of vaping, albeit while still using plant material as the base. Hmm, now that I think about it maybe the whole Premier/Eclipse multi billion dollar boondoggle has soured BT on vaping. I hope so (though I'd STILL like to see some sort of real study).

Where did you hear RJ Reynolds was first to introduce vaping? Wiki says the "e-cig" concept was patented in the US in 1963 but didn't go into production until a similar concept was patented again in China in 2003.

As for the outrageous taxes I mentioned, here they come http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-e-smoking-discussion/216183-lets-tax-e-cigs-like-they-regular-cigarettes.html. I'm stocking up more juice.

 

[tmcase]

Where did you hear RJ Reynolds was first to introduce vaping? Wiki says the "e-cig" concept was patented in the US in 1963 but didn't go into production until a similar concept was patented again in China in 2003.

As for the outrageous taxes I mentioned, here they come http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-e-smoking-discussion/216183-lets-tax-e-cigs-like-they-regular-cigarettes.html. I'm stocking up more juice.

Better yet, start stocking up on unflavored nic base, flavoring, VG & PG and DIY. Juice only lasts about 2 yrs.

 

[ScooterGirl]

Where did you hear RJ Reynolds was first to introduce vaping? Wiki says the "e-cig" concept was patented in the US in 1963 but didn't go into production until a similar concept was patented again in China in 2003.

As for the outrageous taxes I mentioned, here they come http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-e-smoking-discussion/216183-lets-tax-e-cigs-like-they-regular-cigarettes.html. I'm stocking up more juice.

RJR's famous "smokeless" cigarette, Premier, heated and aerosolized tobacco to deliver nicotine (although no one was sure just how effective it was at doing this, much like PVs). It was clumsy and awkward (people actually had to be instructed on how to light it) so they took it off the market within a year. Not wanting to lose the billions they spent on development of Premier, they introduced version 2, Eclipse, in the 90s. This used a carbon tip to heat tobacco to give off a vapor; very little tobacco was actually burned in the process of smoking an Eclipse and no ashes. Regardless, the American Cancer Society argues it still produces carcinogens (true because it was using plant material with the famous 599 additives to produce the vapor). I'm not sure but I think Eclipse might still be floating around somewhere. So while RJR stuck to its beloved tobacco leaf it was the first company to introduce a product that used vapor instead of smoke to deliver nicotine to cigarette users. They just weren't clever enough to do it right.