Vaping Leads to Amputated Limbs

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PoliticallyIncorrect

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You heard it here first, folks...

www.democratandchronicle. com/story/opinion/letters/2013/10/12/letter-e-cigarettes-will-burn-users-in-the-long-run/2969185/

Quite possibly the most inflated piece of ANTZ hysteria I've seen yet. Me thinks the good doctor got out of the wrong side of bed--then sucked back way, way too much coffe
 

AgentAnia

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The writer is a senior interventional cardiologist, Rochester Heart Institute. Might be interesting to get him together with Dr. Farsalinos and listen to their "discussion." heh heh

(BTW, the amputation thing probably refers to Buerger's Disease, which is constriction of the blood vessels in arms and legs leading to decreased circulation. In severe cases, it can lead to required amputation, but this is rare. Buerger's itself is quite rate. According to the Mayo Clinic, the cause is not known. Some think it's a genetic predisposition. Most common in the Far East and Asia. There is a correlation with tobacco use, but tobacco use has not been established as a cause of the disease.)
 

NorthOfAtlanta

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You heard it here first, folks...

www.democratandchronicle. com/story/opinion/letters/2013/10/12/letter-e-cigarettes-will-burn-users-in-the-long-run/2969185/

Quite possibly the most inflated piece of ANTZ hysteria I've seen yet. Me thinks the good doctor got out of the wrong side of bed--then sucked back way, way too much coffe

Nah, he;s just to busy writing BS for BP instead of reading the latest science and research like the Rochester Heart Institute brags about in their ads.
 

Uma

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That article opinion is so not true. In fact, I bet If they took 10 smoking Bergers patients, switched them to vaping, by 3 months time 9 out of the 10 wouldn't feel pain from the cold anymore. The 10th one might need 4 months. (Assuming they're all mild to moderate, and not severe) shoot, I bet even the severe patient would find relief in time. IMO, this Doctor must be one of those on the FDA grant list, or a big Pharma pawn. Somebody's paid puppet. I bet SG read statements in comments comparing real doctors to spin doctors, so they brought in a ringer. IMO. This is just absurd.
 

ItTechy

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Well I won't go political here but the article is on the Democrat & Chronicle so do you really believe anything there will not be biased?

The writer of the article is clearly an idiot. There is a reason why there is no place to leave a response or comment.
 

ItTechy

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Ok folks lets base our findings on facts not the BS the MD is saying:

The good doctor graduated from Gandhiji University Medical College (1970)
(a lot has changed since 1970)!

Gandhi Medical College, founded 14 September 1954, is a medical college in Padmarao Nagar, Secunderabad in the state of Andhra Pradesh, India.

Affiliations

If you read his hospital affiliations, he has practiced at quite a few; please take a look at his ratings..

Appointments
University Of Rochester School Of Medicine & Dentistry, Rochester, Ny (1981 - Present)
(Most of the time these two specialties of medicine are not affiliated, I guess here if you can't cut it as an MD, you can work on peoples teeth as a DDS, rather scary thought...)

University Of Rochester School Of Medicine
CLINICAL ASSISTANT PROFESSOR*
(aka paper pusher)

On this particular web site he has only one, uno, un, 1 patient review; now that being said I find it hard to believe this "tool" knows anything as he obviously is a "book" / "on paper" medical doctor....
(In reading the patient review he had to work on her three times to get it right, or so it seems)!

If he has only worked on a few people since he came to this country, noting that other than his listed Appointments and Hospital affiliations he has no further education beyond that in India where he graduated in 1970 makes him a suitable Doctor of Pathology aka, someone who does autopsies and never touches a live human being, or a Veterinarian, DVM, but even in that case he would have buried most of his 4 legged patients as he seems to have bounced from hospital to hospital, and obviously does not PRACTICE medicine.

He's a legend in his own mind!

Would you expect anything more from a web site of this caliber!

* Clinical in an educational facility does not mean clinical as most would think, it generally means someone who analyzes data, or teaches how to gather and analyze data, seeing as this is the same person who says he feels nicotine causes people to loose their legs, I would caution one against anything he put a pen to!
 
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Anjaffm

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What utter BS!

hm... I wonder if BP would be happy to read the good doctor's (completely nonsensical) opinions on nicotine. After all, is that substance not present in the NRTs that they sell, for a lot of money?

*giggles*

Nicotine is not responsible for the diseases that smokers develop. The culprit are the many other (!) substances in tobacco smoke.
 

ItTechy

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As I have said in many other posts, there are more know carcinogens in the processed food we ALL eat than that found in e-juices that are made in Europe or the US today.

I on the other hand, as a DIY, I use "food grade" flavorings, Kosher food grade VG, food grade PG, and the nicotine is in fact coming from the US!

Lets see, flavorings are safe to use in baked goods (heated), we have all "burned" something in the oven, which contained flavorings haven't we? Of course, now who has reportedly contacted any respiratory or cancer from breathing these fumes? NO ONE, like wise we all have done the same thing with food that contains VG and PG, now that also being said, I agree this is not deliberate inhalation, SO what's your point! By now some idiot in our government would have done some study to prove "burning food" causes disease; I mean we spent millions to see which tomato ketchup runs down a 45 degree incline faster!

Oh OH I forgot there is Nicotine in it! Well the medical facts are pretty well established on this! :vapor:

And yes we are intentionally inhaling nicotine that is heated and vaporized, it is NOT being burnt, it is changing state physically, NOT CHEMICALLY!

Arghhhh I am so tired of these rocket scientists ! Oh Oh the space shuttle is safe! NOT Yeah right put me on top of a million gallons of liquid nitrogen, liquid oxygen, and basically anything that will burn, strapped in a lawn chair, and light it...I don't think so! :vapor:

What utter BS!

hm... I wonder if BP would be happy to read the good doctor's (completely nonsensical) opinions on nicotine. After all, is that substance not present in the NRTs that they sell, for a lot of money?

*giggles*

Nicotine is not responsible for the diseases that smokers develop. The culprit are the many other (!) substances in tobacco smoke.
 
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AgentAnia

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The trend spotter in me sees this kind of article (which no doubt we'll be seeing more and more of in the near future) as a last gasp of desperation by the ANTZ crowd. Their low-level hyperbole (sternly delivered in apparently sincere pseudo-scientific jargon) is giving way to extreme hyperbole (loudly shouted concentrated collection of fearmongering pseudo-scientific buzzwords with little attempt to join them into any semblance of rationality).

In D Puddlecoat's blog today (http://dickpuddlecote.blogspot.com/2013/10/tobacco-control-proven-wrong-again.html), ChrisPrice4 comments:

The days of these legions of corrupt liars and parasites are numbered, and the more they scream the more we know it's working.
 

Anjaffm

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Folks, you need to keep an open mind about ALL opinions.

There is truth in what he says. So far, trying to find the best combination of mod/JDS/eliquids has cost me an arm and a leg!

Bwaahaaaahaa!!!!!! :D
------------------

@AgentAnia:

well said indeed - thank you!

The trend spotter in me sees this kind of article (which no doubt we'll be seeing more and more of in the near future) as a last gasp of desperation by the ANTZ crowd. Their low-level hyperbole (sternly delivered in apparently sincere pseudo-scientific jargon) is giving way to extreme hyperbole (loudly shouted concentrated collection of fearmongering pseudo-scientific buzzwords with little attempt to join them into any semblance of rationality).

And please do remember the ANTZ reasoning behind attempting to demonize e-cigs in the first place (I just love this! :) )

toadalone >Patrick Barry
08 October 2013 11:13pm

What was the argument for having eCigs a medical product?
Errrrr.... I can't remember!
So much crap has been piled onto the debate since the original proposal for the TPD (Tobacco Products Directive, or, as I now like to call it after reading this thread, Taco Products Directive) amendment that I can't remember what the original rationale was - if there was one. I suspect it went something like this:
1. People are inhaling something in a way that looks like smoking.
2. EEEEK! It must be bad for them.
3. Definitely is - they're inhaling NICOTINE, everyone knows that gives you Cancer(TM) (* NOTE *).
4. What are we going to do about it?
5. Did I mention, they're enjoying it as well?
6. Then we've definitely got to do something. Can't have people enjoying Drugs(TM). What can we do?
7. Er, it's a round hole, we haven't come across one of those before.
8. Well, we've got a square peg (pharmaceutical licensing).
9. But it's a square peg, it won't go in a round hole.
10. Yes it will, we just need to make up some arguments after the fact to ram it in. Round up the usual Tobacco Control suspects, shout "Nicotine! Cancer! Children! Flavours! Gateway Drug!" at them to get them excited, poke them with sticks a little bit, and before you can say "fix-up" we'll have stacks of "academic research" proving that e-cigs give you cancer just if you look at them, corrupt children, deplete the ozone layer, give you acne, and strangle baby wombats when they think no-one's looking. And that medicinal licensing is the only way to stop this.

* NOTE *: The fact that nicotine causes cancer is an interesting fact. It's what is known as an Untrue Fact. Some people call this kind of fact by other names, such as Bollocks, Total and Utter Bull...., or You're Totally Making This Up Aren't You? Surprisingly, almost half of UK GPs think that it's a True fact, though.

source
 
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ItTechy

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You know one thing I have noticed is at least the UK went as far as to regulate the Nic liquid base by requiring retailers to adhere to some quality standards in regards to where the nicotine extract was coming from....

I am not saying that there is no fault is their regulatory laws as I am unfamiliar with most UK law regarding e-cigs, however isn't the primary function of our FDA to insure our well being?

So far all I see them doing is taking money from big tobacco, making it darn near impossible to get US sourced nicotine extracts (note I said near), and ranting about outdated research data!

It's almost as bad as NITSA, now I wonder who is stuffing money in their pockets? We have some of the worst built, unsafe automobiles in the world, yet the government beats its chest saying "we are imposing stricter safety regulations all the time".....

This is why the US had seat belts after Europe and Central America, Airbags after Europe and Japan...on and on.....

It's all about money and corruption, "they" could care less about anyone besides themselves and enlarging their bank accounts.

What about the Airlines, no one touches them, and they bury their screw ups! Humm I wonder why???
 
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Vocalek

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You know one thing I have noticed is at least the UK went as far as to regulate the Nic liquid base by requiring retailers to adhere to some quality standards in regards to where the nicotine extract was coming from....

I am not saying that there is no fault is their regulatory laws as I am unfamiliar with most UK law regarding e-cigs, however isn't the primary function of our FDA to insure our well being?

So far all I see them doing is taking money from big tobacco, making it darn near impossible to get US sourced nicotine extracts (note I said near), and ranting about outdated research data!

It's almost as bad as NITSA, now I wonder who is stuffing money in their pockets? We have some of the worst built, unsafe automobiles in the world, yet the government beats its chest saying "we are imposing stricter safety regulations all the time".....

This is why the US had seat belts after Europe and Central America, Airbags after Europe and Japan...on and on.....

It's all about money and corruption, "they" could care less about anyone besides themselves and enlarging their bank accounts.

What about the Airlines, no one touches them, and they bury their screw ups! Humm I wonder why???

Correction: The e-cigarette vendors banded together and imposed the existing standards for production of other products onto their own products--voluntarily. So far, the UK has not passed any regulations unique to e-cigarette liquid production. See: Welcome to ECITA - The Electronic Cigarette Industry Trade Association

And by the way, in the US there is also a voluntary body that has set standards for e-liquid production. AEMSA | American E-Liquid Manufacturing Standards Association
 
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ItTechy

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Great information....

My mistake on any mis-information regarding the UK, but naturally as being a US citizen, I try to concentrate on our laws or lack thereof..

My point was "Big Government" here in the US, and the way things have been trending in past few years, not only in the e-cig industry, but also in too many aspects of our day to day lives....etc.

I had known of the voluntary trade associations, just not any specifics..your links are greatly appreciated.

I think you knew where I was coming from.....;)


Correction: The e-cigarette vendors banded together and imposed the existing standards for production of other products onto their own products--voluntarily. So far, the UK has not passed any regulations unique to e-cigarette liquid production. See: Welcome to ECITA - The Electronic Cigarette Industry Trade Association

And by the way, in the US there is also a voluntary body that has set standards for e-liquid production. AEMSA | American E-Liquid Manufacturing Standards Association
 
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