Vaping...More harm then good? For me yes...Im done!!!!!!

[Kate51]

Just comparing chemical components and method of delivery of cigarettes and e-cigs should be a huge clue as to which one would be FAR less safe.
I don't think anyone gives credit to 100% safety in anything in the world these days. NOthing we touch, breath, wear, smell, or live with has a 100% SAFE label on it.
As of long ago, what you say now Paladinx is still right....when speaking in factual context. However, there is some question whether the OP was opining in a factual or merely reactional context. It struck more than one of us posting as reactional.

 

[Xenite]

I would say one thing that many overlook when it comes to vaping and particular symptoms is the fact that most of us vape differently. Some like me have our e-cigs welded to our faces most of the day, others vape very little. One of the biggest differences that never seems mentioned is that most of us have a specific favorite flavor of liquid.

The flavoring compounds that are used to flavor liquids varies wildly. I've heard more people complaining about cinnamon based liquids then any other. Does that mean cinnamon flavors are to blame? Possibly, or maybe it can be explained by a large percentage of the population liking and using cinnamon.

As many of you may know the old popcorn style of flavoring (never used in e-liquids as far as I know) used to cause popcorn lung in cooks who used it as a flavoring when it was vaporized into the air. The point I am trying to make is we can all speculate, argue and come to what ever conclusions we want, but until we start collecting actual data in trials not only on vaping but, flavoring, independent factors like age, weight, and general health, we will never get a clear picture of vaping's risk and reward.

 

[MichelleDen]

I would say one thing that many overlook when it comes to vaping and particular symptoms is the fact that most of us vape differently. Some like me have our e-cigs welded to our faces most of the day, others vape very little. One of the biggest differences that never seems mentioned is that most of us have a specific favorite flavor of liquid.

The flavoring compounds that are used to flavor liquids varies wildly. I've heard more people complaining about cinnamon based liquids then any other. Does that mean cinnamon flavors are to blame? Possibly, or maybe it can be explained by a large percentage of the population liking and using cinnamon.

As many of you may know the old popcorn style of flavoring (never used in e-liquids as far as I know) used to cause popcorn lung in cooks who used it as a flavoring when it was vaporized into the air. The point I am trying to make is we can all speculate, argue and come to what ever conclusions we want, but until we start collecting actual data in trials not only on vaping but, flavoring, independent factors like age, weight, and general health, we will never get a clear picture of vaping's risk and reward.

Well said. And very interesting.

 

[Bovinia]

As many of you may know the old popcorn style of flavoring (never used in e-liquids as far as I know) used to cause popcorn lung in cooks who used it as a flavoring when it was vaporized into the air. The point I am trying to make is we can all speculate, argue and come to what ever conclusions we want, but until we start collecting actual data in trials not only on vaping but, flavoring, independent factors like age, weight, and general health, we will never get a clear picture of vaping's risk and reward.

Actually it was, and still is used in some e-liquids. The chemical you refer to is called diacetyl. Use the search function here on ECF and you will find a lot of useful information if you have the patience to wade through a lot of arguement

 

[paladinx]

Yeah, well kate, You are correct, but I guess my point is you could say the same thing about any of our experiences whether good or bad. You know even clinical trials you must take with a grain of salt. There are so many medications that have gotten the OK to use on the market than get recalled a few years later because people are dropping dead or like in my mothers case, get complete kidney failure. An approved medicine destroyed her not her cigarette smoking habit ironically. So it sucks, because you really just never know. It all depends who funds studies and what interested parties are involved. So really, there are so many variables like the last poster has mentioned, and there are not going to be any long term studies for us to look at, so we are really the guinea pigs. All we have is our own experiences to share. Good and bad.

So my point is, we already have a study that is happening now. US. real users, not sellers, not the FDA, but the average Joe. We need to hear each other out, and try to figure out things as they come on our own. If someone is having bad effects, well we should take into account everything, and than after awhile maybe we could start finding a commonality. Perhaps its a certain ingredient, or a flavor, or the device itself. Otherwise we sit on our thumbs and argue back and forth. And that pretty much sums up the health thread. Till people are inhaling these things for a couple of decades at least, and not getting any medical problems attributed to vaping specifically, that is the only way we will really know for SURE.

 

[mdocod]

My experience somewhat coincides with the OPs.

I've quit cigs many times for short periods of time (1-5 days) and only suffered 2 significant side effects as a result of those attempts: 1. Wanting a cig, a lot, and 2. Mild constipation. #1 was always strong enough to bring me back.

The ecig did manage to deal with the 2 side effects of quitting real cigs reasonably well, well enough that I am now smoke free for 3 weeks. However, the ecig comes with a handful of other strange symtoms that I had never felt as a result of quitting cigs in the past.

Tightness in lungs/chest feeling: Strongest in the minutes after vaping, diminishes and goes away if I don't vape for awhile. (it IS directly correlated). Physical Activity and Alcohol consumption seem to reduce the apparentness of this symptom. So far, it seems to be caused more heavily by PG than VG. This is by far the most discomforting symptom of all. When I first started vaping, this symptom was so strong that it caused mild panic. I used the ecig very lightly those first few days not smoking just as needed to kill a strong cig craving, but each time I used it, it gave me this very nasty side effect. The intensity of this side effect has subsided in intensity but has persisted with each use to present day. The presence of this side effect has led to soreness of the chest muscles at times. Another way to describe this symptom, would be like a chest that is always trying to exhale, requiring more effort to draw in a breath than there should be.

Dry Mouth/Throat: I can take in fluids all day but it is very hard to get ahead of the dry mouth issue if I am vaping. The problem is always gone after sleeping (I don't vape in my sleep), or any time I have not vaped for several hours. This symptom is directly related to vaping. Again, seems to me that PG may be the prime offender but further experimentation is necessary.

Head Aches: I don't get headaches. Or at least... very very rarely used to... Since vaping I sometimes get short lived headaches several times a day. When they do happen, they only happen in the moments after vaping.

Other thoughts:
Standard cartridge on atty designs have a propensity to burn polyfill. The results of which is the inhalation of very toxic gases. I have had a few hits like this and each time they make me feel ill for several hours. This is not healthy. I have since gone almost entirely to using cartomizers (or sometimes direct dripping)... Which also contain polyfil, but seem to wick so much better that the polyfil is less apt to ever be heated to a level of off-gassing.

The PG used in ecigs is for all intents and purposes, the same as the PG found in fog machines, which have known dangers, especially when a malfunction or custom fog machine over-heats the PG. A powerful atty running dry could probably very easily lead to the production of dangerous vaporized toxins.

The vapor from ecigs consists of high levels of PG or VG. To say that we are inhaling "water vapor" is a lie through omission. vaporized PG and VG leave an oily residue behind. In this case, that oily residue is being left in our lungs... While that residue may not contain carcinogens in high concentrations, we have to pose the question: How much different is this than leaving "tar" deposits in our lungs? Does the body have a mechanism for absorbing these oils through the lung tissue and metabolizing them safely?

With all of these considerations, I still believe that ecigs are the absolute best way to quit smoking successfully. We just have to figure out how much healthier it really is. There are a lot of unanswered questions in this new industry. The entrepreneurs who have gone into business in this industry are taking a huge risk. At any moment, this train could be brought to a screeching halt by regulation... No doubt, regulation will eventually take place, we just have to hope that it will be for the better when it does happen. If there are health risks and unknowns, I am not apposed to the product being sold, but better documentation and warnings would actually help protect those business who are selling these products.

Eric

 

[Kate51]

paladinx, excellent points. On a positive note, in a couple decades we could all be addiction free because of our wonderful pharmaceutical guinea pig programs, and we maybe won't have to worry so much. We find a lot of humor in those commercials, listening to "possible" side effects. In twenty years I'll be in my eighties, will post back and do some updates (I'll find somebody that can still type). The name of the Thread will be "If I'd known then what I know now....", watch for it! Already, I could write a book on that subject.
Clinical trials are a little constricted by the nature of the beast, but helpful. More trials may be more helpful, futuristically speaking.
Sorry to hear about your Mom. That does hit home, big time. My Dad fell by the wayside because of brilliant medical intervention. Doc said he had pneumonia. But his breathing problems were caused by pressure from the fluid around his heart. Oops. That was thirty five years ago, but still....twenty years later, my Mom died from arthritis in her knee joints. But her pain and inflamation was caused by advanced untreated PAD, not bad knees so much.
You're absolutely right, sometimes we don't or can't dig quite deep enough. But, although we mean well, we think through problems with the limitations of the unknown.
Sometimes there isn't much comfort in hindsight.
Eric, your post illustrates that very well, and is a common thread for a lot of us...irritants are real. I found it helpful to stay away from PG myself. I started learning about DIY, about that same time, cutting back to only three main ingredients in my e-juice so I could eliminate as many unknowns as possible in case of bad reactions. I also found a good cartomizer, where the heating coil is kept away from the filler a bit. (Many people have problems with fillers/attys. And yes, your lungs do have the ability to dispel any residue from PG or VG.) My computer screen doesn't need nearly as much cleaning since I started vaping! Getting away from the tar from smoking will increase lung function exponentially. But it takes time for them to heal. Good nutrition and hydration, good sleep, and good exercise helps a lot. You may want to try mouthwashes that deal with dry mouth, extra brushing helps too. But check with your dentist, dry mouth is not a good thing.
Congratulations on being smoke free; that's MAJOR!

 

[Phreaker]

mdocod, FWIW I suffered from headaches (2 or 3 a week) before I quit smoking and started vaping. After I started vaping I noticed after a week or so I hadn't gotten a headache. It's been over a month now and I've only had 1 headache and it was after several beers the night before. So, I'm inclined to think smoking was causing me headaches all these years.

I came to this area of the forum because, like others, after a month or so of vaping I've noticed my skin getting increasingly itchier and drier - especially upper arms, shoulders, and just most recently elbows. I'm now trying PG-free liquids. Hopefully that will help me. Because I've tried so many different flavors and from so many different vendors I can't even be sure it's the PG that is causing this.

Also, VG and PG are water soluble so I am not sure "oily residue" is an issue. I don't have any chest issues. If anything I've felt better than I have in a long time in that regard.

 

[Katya]

PG and VG are, well, sugars. A sugar molecule is a sugar molecule and our bodies can metabolize them very well. There's nothing oily in them. There may be essential oils added to flavorings, like cinnamon or orange or clove. I wouldn't vape those. But PG and VG are really just as drying; it's a myth that VG is not as drying as PG. Some people may have allergic reactions to one or the other, but in terms of dehydrating our bodies, they both do that.

 

[thewomenfolk]

I'm really enjoying reading this thread. Everybody's making good points. I'm especially interested in other vaper's experiences with shortness of breath and whether they use PG or VG and which flavors seem less harmful....that sort of thing.

 

[Puff_N_Tampa]

So did the OP's symptoms subside after he stopped vaping?

 

[Hotwire]

Op's symptoms sound like reaction to nicotine, in that he is sensitive to stimulants.

 

[thewomenfolk]

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Does nicotine cause shortness of breath?

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[Hotwire]

Well nicotine is a stimluant, so yes the extra strain on the heart of someone with either a weak heart, iregualr heartbeat or over-sensitivity to nicotine could well result in shortness of breath. Shortness of breath does not have to be lung related. People with anxitey get shortness of breath and that is purely related to the nervous system. Any stimulant that is over stimulating your nervous sytem could result in shortness of breath.

The op needs ot get to the docs and get a lung test and heart test imo. Could be pre-existing from the years of smoking, could be an over sensitivity to nicotine could be many factors.

Good luck op and I hope you get well.

 

[Puff_N_Tampa]

Coincidental? I think so...

 

[pothole]

After wading through this thread, the only thing I am 100% certain of is the same thing I was 100% certain of before I read it. Someday I will die, 100% gauranteed. The thread title is misleading, as the OP has not returned for sometime to verify the claim. There are two possibilities for this, 1/ They got t'eed off at the advasarial tone the thread took, or 2/ They have since been diagnosed with an unknown illness. ( I hope it is the former ) Is vaping 100% safe? we just don't know and neither does the FDA or HC. They do however approve things like Champix because they know for a fact the side effects, ( worse nightmares than ANY horror movie and I did just once think to myself that the Mrs would be better off if I was dead, two known side effects ). What I would be happy about, is if the FDA or HC were conducting tests for the approval ( with warnings ) the effects of ecigs. I think what screws up the possibility of that happening are the multitude of different flavours. Non-nic ecigs are legal and on sale in stores in Canada, however, the only reference I can find on any govenment website pertaining to illegal ecigs explains that nicotine delivery systems must be prescribed by a doctor, pfft, I don't need a prescription to buy cigarettes, pipe tobacco or chewing tobacco so that excuse is bull. There are no doubts people will have adverse side effects to vaping like dry mouth, headaches and muscle cramps, all of which I get from too much caffeine which causes dehydration. I sincerely hope the OP is well and am sure that all would agree that information is the key. Unfortunately at this moment in time there is not enough out there for a definative answer to anyones concerns.

 

[StarsAndBars]

Hate it when people post things like this, and never give a follow up.

 

[MaXXout]

i hate it when theres no follow ups to a post with so many views/replies but oh well i guess thats how things go on net forums i suppose. All we know could have been one of those E-Trolls that cause chatter but i doubt it as his last post was in December selling E-Juice so i suppose things are alright.

 

[Puff_N_Tampa]

Just need a moderator to delete the whole thread honestly....

 

[thewomenfolk]

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It's a valid thread. Sometimes when one starts a thread, if there's a period of time with no activity, one just sort of forgets about it, or moves on. I think the issues the OP brought up are worth talking about though, because he isn't the only one who questions the healthfulness of vaping, or what their particular issue with health, or lack of, could be due to (pg, vg, flavoring, over-vaping, etc).

It's too bad that experiments must be done before anyone can really know whether vaping is okay for ones health or not. And it's too bad that no one can know for sure whether or not VG and PG are harmful when vaped. Some seem to tolerate them better than others. So what's in them or the various flavorings that some can't tolerate? Nobody seems to know.

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