Vaping nicotine as a never-smoker, why not?

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Romano Cheese

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I have read that nicotine is actually good for people - like helping with Parkinson's, Tourette's, and schizophrenia. For all the other chemicals pumped into our food that we don't even know about I think nicotine is on the low end of things to worry about.
 

unixunderground

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I found the problem with your line of "thinking";

Its all the "I dont see's"

The inventors of the Hindenburg and the Titanic "didnt see" anything wrong with their designs.

From all accounts, Hitler "didnt see" anything wrong with his actions either.

Your same "logic" could be applied to just about any illicit drug or foolhardy act known to man......with the same disastrous results.

In fact, the Darwin Awards are chock full of stories just like that.

Go ahead, you seem bound and determined to convince yourself and others that this is a good idea. When you eventually realize it wasnt, dont say no one warned you.

Thanks for replying.

I am aware that this probably wasn't your intention, but your statement made me laugh out loud for longer than I'd like to admit.

We are all entitled to our own opinions, but I won't even try to begin describing how ludicrous it is to compare starting to vape nicotine with the death of 11 million people. This unfortunately invalidates, to me, any further points you make.
 
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Rixsta

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I think if I never smoked before and wanted to vape, why would I use nicotine, that makes no sense to me, sure I'd vape 0mg but to put the monkey on my back when I was smart enough never to smoke in the first place would be kinda dumb..but that is just me, everyone is free to do what they want and I certainly wouldn't judge anyone for doing so.
 

unixunderground

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There are two errors in your post...

1. Nicotine has many health benefits but certain people don't want you to know that.

2. You are applying logic, reasoning and known facts to the problem. That is a terrible mistake. The world is ruled by propaganda and politics. Facts and logical reasoning are not part of the decision making process.

The question of who should or shouldn't be allowed access to nicotine comes up here often, usually in regard to juveniles. I only have one answer... why should nicotine be any more controlled than caffeine? Or, conversely, if juveniles should not be able to buy nicotine, then what are we going to do to control juvenile access to caffeine? And don't forget that caffeine goes far beyond coffee. We need to restrict soft drinks (unless caffeine free of course!). And then those evil chocolates, just chock full of caffeine. We need to put that behind special counters where only adults can purchase it.

You might want to explain to the op why his desire to ingest nicotine, which has been proven over and over to be no more harmful than caffeine, and in fact has numerous health benefits, is being equated to exterminating millions of people by the most hated man of the 20th century, and the use of drugs that are so evil they cannot even be mentioned here by name.

He may have missed your point. And to be honest I did too. Please explain exactly why nicotine is that evil.

@unixunderground: if you came here looking for reasoned discourse, you should understand by now you won't find it here. Sorry. And welcome to ECF :)

Thanks! :)
I am really relieved to see that among people stating that killing 11 million people can be equaled to vaping nicotine, there are still plenty of others able of rational thinking and reasoned debate.

You did not give me one reason why ingesting nicotine is comparable in any way to exterminating millions of people or using unmentionable drugs. Why did you evade my question?

And you seem more troubled by our exchange than me. I'm rather enjoying this. And while you may be comfortable with where you think your elevator goes, I can assure you that there are many people here questioning yours. I think it might have something to do with the comparing to Hitler part.

True. By that same logic, in my case, breast milk was a gateway to bourbon. :D

:D:DI have to say that I am rather enjoying having started this thread. Reading through some of the viewpoints is really quite entertaining.

Would be ridiculous if you were talking on a forum with people who refuse to strike a match while pumping gas. Instead, it is (exactly) like talking to a forum of people who use blow torches while pumping gas, and asking if they have any issues with striking a match in the same situation.

Not so ridiculous.



It bugs me that fellow vapers are like this. I call it hypocrisy and the kind of rhetoric that ought to be ignored from the likes of the people stating it.

Sadly, it has become no different than arguing with a 5 year old
The art of debate is dying a painful, tortuous death.

I too am sad to see how many of us have come to despise healthy, rational debate, and instead turn it into a inconsequential ramble fueled by logical fallacies, trying to "bash the enemy" to justify their viewpoints.

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As a side note, I highly recommend any rational minds looking to form for themselves a reasoned opinion of Nicotine, to have a read at this long, but very informative article: Nicotine - Gwern.net
 
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unixunderground

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I don't think it's frowned on by anywhere near the majority, but the vocal minority on any side of an issue can make a lot of noise ;)



I agree. I also find vaping nicotine not addictive for me and I was very addicted to cigarettes.


ECF is a very well moderated and relaxed forum. Disagreements that happen in most other forums are frequently much more pronounced than what you'll find here. I certainly don't consider your issue here 'stigmatization'.

There is an 'Ignore' feature on most forums. On ECF you'll find it by clicking on the poster's name on the fifth line of text, second from the left. I don't use it often, but occasionally it comes in real handy
yes3.gif

It's good to hear that research is after all backed by personal accounts too. :)

Thanks! It's really refreshing to see that the vaping community isn't in fact all negative towards nicotine-naïve folks.

Because so many people have swallowed, hook, line and sinker, all that garbage about nicotine being "the most addictive substance known to man!" For someone who's never smoked, it's not; as you say, it's very similar to caffeine -- there may be some slight dependance if one uses a lot of it for an extended period, just like caffeine, and perhaps some discomfort if that regimen is abruptly discontinued, just like caffeine, but you're right, the health effects are somewhere between negligible and actually positive for a great many physical and mental conditions.

Vape on, and try not to let the brainwashed bother you. :) :thumb:

Andria

Thanks for replying! :)
This definitely seems to be the only explanation. I suspect that used in moderation and with reason, cycling it with caffeine, Nicotine will be highly beneficial to me.

Looking at the potential upside, I find it really surprising that there so few non-smokers trying to take advantage of it.



In an intelligent adult society, they shouldn't be, nor should consumers of any pleasurable chemical, like caffeine , alcohol, or even sugar. But we as a herd have been conditioned by propaganda and social conditioning to have prejudices about certain individual behaviors, like consumption of pleasurable molecules, whatever they may be. We really haven't progressed much since the time it was believed by the consensus that the earth was the center of the universe, and the surface of the earth was flat.

Couldn't agree more.
It's sad but also enlightening to see where most people still stand today. Many of the world's and society's ailments suddenly make much more sense.

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Also thanks for the concern about why I shouldn't care about what other people think and just do what I want to.
This is solid advice, and luckily, I can assure you that I am not easily influenced by other's opinion of myself, and I have a made a decision to do this long before coming to this forum.

I was instead rather interested in hearing about other people's opinion to what seems to be a controversial issue.
 
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unixunderground

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Thanks for all the replies! (Even the Hitler one!) Keep em coming, I am really glad to have sparked an interesting discussion.

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On a slightly unrelated note, I just ordered some 72mg/ml nicotine, PG,VG, containers and misc. lab equipment and will soon be mixing.

(N.B.! If anyone else, non-smoker or otherwise is thinking about doing this, please be advised that nicotine in high concentration is extremely toxic, and you should wear protective equipment and make sure that you know what you are doing before starting out. A 100 ml bottle at high concentration, has the potential to easily kill you many times over if mishandled)

What do you guys think would be a reasonable nicotine concentration solution to vape for a non-smoker to start off? I am leaning towards 4-8 mg. Any suggestions?
 

flbutterfly1

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After not using nicotine for a few years now I have added it back in. I found that using a 1-2mg vape with my morning coffee has brought my memory and alertness up. I would start there and go up if you don't get the results you're looking for. Equipment also changes how much nic you would want to start with. Larger vapor = less nic.
 

VNeil

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Thanks for all the replies! (Even the Hitler one!) Keep em coming, I am really glad to have sparked an interesting discussion.

---

On a slightly unrelated note, I just ordered some 72mg/ml nicotine, PG,VG, containers and misc. lab equipment and will soon be mixing.

(N.B.! If anyone else, non-smoker or otherwise is thinking about doing this, please be advised that nicotine in high concentration is extremely toxic, and you should wear protective equipment and make sure that you know what you are doing before starting out. A 100 ml bottle at high concentration, has the potential to easily kill you many times over if mishandled)

What do you guys think would be a reasonable nicotine concentration solution to vape for a non-smoker to start off? I am leaning towards 4-8 mg. Any suggestions?
Next time you get concentrated nic, get the 100mg stuff. The math is so much easier... each percent equals one milligram (e.g. 5% = 5mg and etc). It's certainly PC to put in all the warnings but you'll find it's not arsenic. Although you probably have no tolerance for nic like us old time heavy smokers do.

What concentration you vape has a lot to do with your gear and the wattage you vape at. For example, with an eGo setup you might only use 2-3ml of juice a day. On the other extreme, with a 50W dripper you can blow through 30ml a day. Aside from the strength you are comfortable with (how much throat hit or harshness you can tolerate or desire), you need to balance the total quantity of nic you ingest, as in milligrams * milliliters.

You are probably somewhat alone on this because you are starting from a zero nic usage. Most people here have very well established nic levels they maintained via smoking, and then have modified that if they've been vaping for awhile.

So you are basically a lab rat here. But I would start low, 1-3mg, and work up as desired.

There are some interesting experiments you can do in the interests of science....

It is well known, and well documented, that ingesting nicotine via cigarettes creates very strong dependencies, to say the least.

It is believed, for various reasons, that ingesting nicotine in some way other than with tobacco does not create strong dependencies, but how much is all up in the air. I believe it has been established that subjects in clinical trials that were given nicotine via patches or gum or some other NRT method did not develop nicotine dependencies but those trials last 6-9 months, leaving open the argument that longer term usage would have resulted in dependency.

Some people here, who I think have very questionable agendas, but that is merely my personal opinion, suggest that inhaling nicotine will lead to more dependency than patches or gum. I don't believe that myself, but you are the lab rat for that one.

It would be interesting if you tested your dependency over time. For example, a vape-free day once a week or so. And see if you experience withdrawal symptoms. And if so, how long it takes. You'd also want to keep careful track of your nic ingestion, in terms of juice concentration and quantities vaped, and the gear and power levels you use.

As strange as it may sound, none of this has been tested scientifically, or if it has, the results are a deep dark secret. It is pretty obvious to most thinking people that there is far more interest in nicotine propaganda than nicotine science. And science seems almost afraid to do experiments that might indicate no harm, and especially no dependence.
 

bluecat

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I have always wondered why someone would grab a glass of beer or wine? I also wondered why someone would lay out in the sun and get a sun tan. Then I thought why someone would eat a 1/2 pound hamburger or bacon.

Then I stopped wondering and decided it was none of my business as I chomped down on a Hawaiian burger with fries, a glass of Guinness nearby, then finished up with a vape and another Guinness. Of course I got terrified that I had to walk out into the sun after it.

Enjoy your vape, mate.
 

VNeil

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After not using nicotine for a few years now I have added it back in. I found that using a 1-2mg vape with my morning coffee has brought my memory and alertness up. I would start there and go up if you don't get the results you're looking for. Equipment also changes how much nic you would want to start with. Larger vapor = less nic.
Reminds me of this thread which Unix might find interesting...

Vaping for nicotine advantages? | E-Cigarette Forum
 

Wow1420

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I think if I never smoked before and wanted to vape, why would I use nicotine, that makes no sense to me, sure I'd vape 0mg but to put the monkey on my back when I was smart enough never to smoke in the first place would be kinda dumb..but that is just me, everyone is free to do what they want and I certainly wouldn't judge anyone for doing so.

I take a rather opposite view. Why would anyone who doesn't already smoke or vape, want to vape if not for the nicotine? I just don't see the point. Not that I'm going to expend any effort to talk them out of it, but it seems like a lot of trouble to go through for little benefit. Sure, go ahead and try 0 nic vaping if you want to try it for weight loss or anti-anxiety, I'm just skeptical that it really works for those purposes.
 
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VNeil

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I think if I never smoked before and wanted to vape, why would I use nicotine, that makes no sense to me, sure I'd vape 0mg but to put the monkey on my back when I was smart enough never to smoke in the first place would be kinda dumb..but that is just me, everyone is free to do what they want and I certainly wouldn't judge anyone for doing so.

Vaping for nicotine advantages? | E-Cigarette Forum
 

Wow1420

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Lots of interesting reading there, thanks for the link.

If any ADULT asked me if they should vape with nicotine as a non-tobacco user, I'd ask a few questions

1. Have you looked into the health effects and addictive properties of nicotine?

2. Have you looked into the safety of inhaling PG and/or VG?

3. Are you going to use flavoring, and if so, are you aware that there is some debate over the safety of some flavoring substances? (Diacetyl etc.)

If they've thought about the issues and are comfortable with their personal choice, go for it.
 
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