Vaping nicotine as a never-smoker, why not?
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I hear some people have reported this ... however, is nicotine actually being professionally prescribed for these symptoms?
Great post. Addressing the para above, I think a big part of it is fear. I might be able to conclude intellectually that I could smoke a cigarette today and go back to vaping afterwards. Like you said, I did it numerous times in the process of switching over from smoking to vaping. But what lurks in the back of my mind is the memory of all the times I quit cold turkey, and how smoking that one cigarette would lead inevitably back to a pack a day, generally within 48 hours.
So even though I'm pretty sure I could have that one cigarette now, the small chance that it might go bad is enough freeze the blood in my veins.
For people who have never smoked, I'm not sure what I would say to them. I definitely wouldn't yell at them and tell them not to be stupid. But I'm not sure I could encourage them either. I know vaping isn't the same as smoking in so many ways, I know about combustion and tar, I satisfied myself that nicotine outside of smoking is neither addictive nor particularly harmful, etc. But the memory of all those decades of enslavement is just too strong. I would need a very high level of certainty to get past that.
That's why I wouldn't see anyone's position on this question as indicating ignorance or lack of intellectual capacity. Even if they disagree with me.
No, it is not, and you have to ask why? And I suspect the answer to that, at least partly, is that it is simply politically incorrect to use nicotine for health reasons. Or perhaps simply because there is no money in it, and all of us self medicating ourselves for peanuts is suggestive of that.
Are you aware that vitamin B3, aka Niacin, is "nicotinic acid"? And it is not at all clear what the difference is between nicotinic acid and nicotine, except nicotinic acid is synthesized in a lab. It certainly has the same exact beneficial effects. Millions of non-smokers are actually dosing themselves with nicotine (actually a synthetic equivalent) while railing against nicotine. How's that for irony?
Wikipedia gives an interesting perspective on all this:
"When the biological significance of nicotinic acid was realized, it was thought appropriate to choose a name to dissociate it from nicotine, to avoid the perception that vitamins or niacin-rich food contains nicotine, or that cigarettes contain vitamins. The resulting name 'niacin' was derived from nicotinic acid + vitamin."
It is also worth mentioning that the same Wikipedia article lists various vegetables as a source of "niacin", where in most references those same vegetables are listed as sources of "nicotine". It is just too painful to ascribe health benefits to nicotine so they have to hide it behind catch phrases invented just for that purpose.
I guess it is a drug delivery system. On the other hand it's also a lot of fun, for me anyway. Everything from collecting equipment and playing around with it, to sampling new flavors. I see your point though.
Love it. For decades I only bought lighters one at a time instead of saving money by buying them in bulk, because I knew I would be quitting before I got through a 12 pack of lighters.
I agree with both those points. There is some research going on but I haven't heard of it being prescribed. Maybe after they have figured out a viable way of monetizing it.
One of our resident experts posted a detailed explanation of the relationship between nicotine and Niacin here in the last week or so, sorry I don't have a link. There are similarities in chemical structure between the two molecules, but the poster concluded that the differences were major and there was no reason to expect similar effects, and said that none have been reported.
Really, show me this research that includes vaping and reversal of damage. In reality, I think you are believing what you want to believe.
Keep in mind that you are speaking with one who has gone cold turkey. So, most things that vaping ex-smokers brag about are things I'm quite familiar with, and have experience with. Cold turkey easily kicks .... over NRT on the financial aspect. Health wise, I think it is about equal, as it isn't like cold turkey transforms you to a planet where there are now zero risks. And moderate smoking does feel about equal to NRT.
Do you really think if all or most smokers were smoking moderately, rather than smoking abusively, that we would see similar level of problems with smoking? All because of the chemical makeup?
I understand the closed mindedness to it from the likes of those who are liberated from smoking and don't know any better. I had some of that in my cold turkey days. Not to the degree of vitriol you are compelled to express. As I noted before, from cold turkey perspective, it is rather easy to note how vaping could be seen as cheating, rationalizing and attempting to have ones cake and eat it too. The other judgments of dishonesty, self destructive and delusional are all easily understood as projections you have about what you are up to being placed upon another, to hopefully avoid feelings of guilt that you may be experiencing.
I don't expect people (namely ex-smokers) to readily agree with my perspective, nor to walk this path. But you do open yourself up to same judgments via rational discussion when you speak on things you think you know and yet have walked the path of non-smoking for far less time than I am accustomed to in my lifetime. Moderate smoking does kick ..... If you feel that is unacceptable, and wish to discuss it like intellectual people do, I will be right here presenting experience and data from perspective that understands things and doesn't seek to discredit other paths because I think I saw the light in my 1 to 4 years of vaping / non-smoking, nor feel that suddenly ANTZ rhetoric on smoking now makes sense.
My initial reaction to your original post, being 20-year smoker, was to say "NO! It's not ok!" After re-reading it a few times however, I find it hard to dispute your thinking. Do I want MY kids to try it before 18? Hell no! But if they try it after, say in college, I don't think I'd get that upset. Maybe just explain that it's WAY safer than analogs. Thank you for presenting that in a well-thought out opinion.
Interesting subject. My gran smoked one cig a day late evening from the time she got married until her 80’s. My grandfather smoked a pipe and she started smoking a cig to keep him company when he had his daily pipe. They couldn’t afford to smoke all day, I always wondered what would have happened if money hadn’t been so tight when they started.
When I was 5 my father gave up his pipe, also for financial reasons. That was in the mid 50’s. He took me out to the garage to watch as he broke them all up with a hammer. He had 7, one for each day of the week, which is what people did back then. He used cigs for a while to ease the withdrawal, which is another thing people did back then. It worked strangely enough, maybe just because he expected it to.
I've known people over the years who only smoked a few cigs at the weekend. I hated them.
I do find this hard to disagree with. Yet, I do think most vapers would say that cravings for a vape are significantly different than cravings for a smoke, when one is smoking at level of PAD or higher. And in that assessment, I'm not emphasizing the nicotine, because it really seems plausible that the hand-to-mouth fixation is possibly equal to or higher than the craving for nicotine, even with regards to smoking.
Even the anti-nicotine types that would accept notion of NRT (likely by BP) would probably argue that form of nicotine delivery isn't inherently addictive, otherwise you'd think no person, of any stripe, would suggest the gum or patch to get rid of nicotine addiction in smoking.
I'm also compelled to make note of moderate smoking here because while it seems majority of smokers are of the abusive kind, it does seem there are smokers who can smoke (and not vape) say 5 a week and not be compelled to buy their own pack. I think experienced smoker types would say they are tempting fate, but it is quite plausible that such people do that for say 2 years and then stop doing that (and cease smoking) and never do it again.
It is unreasonable to say that the only option is to get a pack. Other options could include cessation, buying disposable eCig which is likely sold along side pack of smokes, borrowing gear from nearby friend, or even just borrowing / obtaining a couple smokes. For a pack would possibly lead someone to thinking they ought to (try to) finish that, whereas we do know that many ex-smoking vapers who do try smoking find it absolutely horrible, so why would a pack make sense knowing that? I realize the option of getting a couple smokes fits in with this idea that you'd go back to smoking, but I think it could actually lead to cessation if the experience is that horrible. Person may feel smoking no longer does it for them, vaping gear is unreliable and so may as well just give cessation a try as there really isn't the strong cravings for nicotine as one had when they were smoking.
Word.
My personal favorite is: "Half a million people die from smoking annually."
Go investigate how that data was arrived at. You* may be in for a wake up call. To the degree you are unwilling to investigate how that number is reached, and used as propaganda for the meme of "smoking kills" means that one day you may be the type of person who knows that vaping kills people cause 200K die annually from it. Which will be hilarious when you remember that back in 2010 to 2015, there were zero people dying from it annually.
*You in the above paragraph doesn't refer to @VNeil who I feel confident doesn't buy the propaganda around that data point.
Exactly this.
And the *method* of delivery is an important part of that addiction, too; smoke particles containing nicotine (and all the other crap) are a great deal finer than the molecules of vaporized nicotine, and you inhale them deeply for best effect; vaporized nicotine absorbs best in the mucosa of mouth, throat, and sinuses, so there's really no need to inhale to the lungs at all, and because of that, is delivered to the brain FARRRR! more slowly; you don't get a "rush" of the substances, you get a "creep."
I really wish all you folks conflating vapor with smoke would go READ something!!!!!!!
Andria
Yes, I have no doubt you hear the same lie you repeated to me, "all the time, at least once a week". That is called the power of propaganda. It was Joseph Stalin that was attributed to have said "if you repeat the same lie over and over, they will believe it". What he didn't bother to add is that "they" will not only come to believe it, "they" will repeat the same lie, over and over, as truth.
And that is why I am demanding links to actual, factual, first hand accounts of never smoking vapers bumming cigs when their mods fail.
I think you are repeating the same tired lie, over and over, and insisting (or confusing) it as fact. And next week someone will repeat the same lie, insisting it as fact, and "I hear about it all the time". And they will be thinking about what you said here, your unsubstantiated allegation. You are just a cog in the big propaganda wheel. But you are in your own matrix, unaware of the wheel, even when when someone shows you a picture of it.
I am so amazed at not just the level of propagandization here, but the inability of people to accept it, even when confronted with it. For me it is breathtaking, astounding. As a species, we are no more advanced than primitive tribes ogling over the first mariners that sailed to their shores, in magic vessels, speaking in hushed tones about the magic powers of the alien beings.
Resulting in statements like this, from earlier in the thread:
"For all we know it could be as harmful as smoking"
"I (sic) willing to bet there are serious harmful effects of vaping"
Another of my favorites, from another recent thread:
"But there is no way that vaping can be safer than not vaping. There must be some downsides to vaping."
Never before have I seen a group of people so firmly committed in their beliefs, despite an absolute and total lack of any evidence. The truth does not matter, in fact, the truth just incites them into heightened fury. Not just inner beliefs that they keep to themselves, but beliefs they push on everyone they encounter, insisting it is some sort of truth. People here believe that just because they believe something, despite no evidence whatsoever, that somehow it becomes some Ultimate Truth that others must follow.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Andria
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Have we all met these guys! 'Have you got a "spare" cigarette'.
Vaping is a godsend against such parasites.
T
"I haven't a particle of confidence in a man who has no redeeming petty vices."
- Mark Twain
If an adult wants to use nicotine (in any form) who are we to tell them they shouldn't?
- Mark Twain
If an adult wants to use nicotine (in any form) who are we to tell them they shouldn't?
I think what you are noting is reason to be cautious about having another smoke.
I would note that I have the cold turkey / relapse experiences you speak of. I literally find it impossible to relapse fully to smoking abusively with the existence of vaping. I think it would be plausible if one were to have a smoke to satisfy some recurring craving they feel they are having AND then make impulse decision to stop vaping for awhile. Without the latter, I would argue intellectually that it would be impossible, or at least very unlikely.
The one thing that does pop up when you have the smoke, which is subtle, but I think (ex)smokers can relate to, is the idea that smoking is perhaps better than vaping. For the vaper who's been vaping for years (and not weeks or a few months), such thinking is ludicrous. Even I as dual user feel vaping is far better. But I think some can remember that when you made the transition, you possibly had thoughts of how is this vaping stuff going to equal the great satisfaction that I strongly believe I get from smoking. Some vapers speak as if all it took was one puff from an eCig to, in that moment, realize they would never smoke again, after enjoying smoking for decades. To them, I don't think this paragraph would ring true or make sense. But how many smokers transitioning do you know, or hear about, that want a flavor that tastes exactly like their brand of smokes? Or the smoker who is stubbornly transitioning and simply can't be open to the idea that one puff is going to magically transform them into vaping fanboy.
With my (open) mind, I could see it as possible that a never smoker who vapes, and then for whatever reason tries a smoke, would find smoking to be better than vaping. I think such data will at some point exist. But, I think it will be so low of a population that it'll be very easy to dismiss as an extreme rarity. I also think that if this same person found themselves fully addicted to smoking, and wanted to break that addiction, they could do so, easily, via vaping. They may like vaping less, but if they hate the addiction to smoking that developed within them, they might like vaping more than that.
Ex-smokers and that means most of the people here on ECF, use vaping solely as a means to break a reliance on cigarettes and the evidence is that it works. It works as well as anything else out there. So that's a good thing.
But most ex-smokers have never considered people that vape for other reasons - for instance there are people that vape to avoid weight gain; vape a dessert rather than eat one!
Teens try vaping, but they do so for the same reasons as adults - to get away from tobacco cigarettes. There is no gateway the other way and even if there were, the fact that vaping is 2 orders of magnitude safer than smoking is telling.
Smoking in moderation is not something that has worked very well for most of us.
T
But most ex-smokers have never considered people that vape for other reasons - for instance there are people that vape to avoid weight gain; vape a dessert rather than eat one!
Teens try vaping, but they do so for the same reasons as adults - to get away from tobacco cigarettes. There is no gateway the other way and even if there were, the fact that vaping is 2 orders of magnitude safer than smoking is telling.
Smoking in moderation is not something that has worked very well for most of us.
T
All these statements right here are why I generally prefer to write a wall of text than use sound bites that speak as if they are factual, but in reality, tell us next to nothing.
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