Vapor Flask V3 DNA40 Clone thread

[TheotherSteveS]

so @dwcraig1 you have a coil that is 0.12, the SXK shows it as 0.07, but then it sends the voltage appropriate for 0.12 at your current wattage setting?

If so, it could be more evidence of a deliberate scam? The resistance reading is fine, but it displays always too low so it can claim to fire down to 0.06.

Then again, I am a firm believer in the maxim: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

If they really wanted to pretend to do 0.06 then it only makes sense to do -0.04 at 0.10-0.14, not all the way up - and not getting worse and worse as it goes up. One might argue that it's both a scam (deliberate lowering displayed ohms) and a screw up (applying it more than is needed for the scam.)

Then again, if it's really firing the right voltage for the real ohms, wouldn't it also use the real ohms for the TC calculation? Meaning TC would be accurate without NP adjustment? But it isn't. It definitely seems to use the wrong, lowered ohms for TC calculations.

Very weird.

i will try probing my voltage today see if I can find the same thing as @dwcraig1

Is this real 'subohm' vaping then?!?! Lol..

Seriously if they have fudged it to make it look like it fires lower (as I think I suggested rather cynically on another thread), that would be ridiculous since if someone builds for 0.06 and sticks it on the mods it will read 0.02 and not fire thus p1ss1ng off the user...It looks great in the ad but surely they are opening themselves to a lot of trouble from irate customers sending unit s back for replacement etc and all for a marginal advertising 'advantage'. Maybe they dont give a toss....dunno..

 

[akeilo]

While I'm not sure, I think that procedure was meant for jalexander.

BTW, is that also the reading you get when you touch the two probes together? Or does your meter auto zero?

Ohh sorry, didnt notice that. In the moment of desperation one can try anything i guess : )

yes, indeed thats the reading i get when i touch two probes together. Its pluso model 151

thanks for the heads up!

 

[TheBloke]

Is this real 'subohm' vaping then?!?! Lol..

Seriously if they have fudged it to make it look like it fires lower (as I think I suggested rather cynically on another thread), that would be ridiculous since if someone builds for 0.06 and sticks it on the mods it will read 0.02 and not fire thus p1ss1ng off the user...It looks great in the ad but surely they are opening themselves to a lot of trouble from irate customers sending unit s back for replacement etc and all for a marginal advertising 'advantage'. Maybe they dont give a toss....dunno..

Yeah if it was deliberate it's going to backfire big time. People respond much worse to faults and failures than they do to less-good specs.

But I ascribe to the maxim "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

So I still think it's more likely a mistake. And one I hope they fix soon.

 

[dwcraig1]

Did the dry cotton burn test a bit ago on my SXK, it failed but not miserably.

 

[dwcraig1]

Yeah if it was deliberate it's going to backfire big time. People respond much worse to faults and failures than they do to less-good specs.

But I ascribe to the maxim "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

So I still think it's more likely a mistake. And one I hope they fix soon.

They really have the makings of a nice product if they get it straighten out.

 

[TheotherSteveS]

Did the dry cotton burn test a bit ago on my SXK, it failed but not miserably.

thats interesting. I didnt bother on my VS clone. Maybe I will have a go this evening..You using NP=70?? What temp did it burn at etc??

 

[TheBloke]

Did the dry cotton burn test a bit ago on my SXK, it failed but not miserably.

Really? What settings?

It passed on mine, with several wire types.

 

[TheBloke]

I just emailed SXK again, thanking him for the response, pointing him to @Matty316 saying on FT forum that low resistance makes him want to return the device, and emphasising again how big an issue it was.

I also said "if you have to raise the minimum resistance to 0.10Ω in order to fix the problem, that is acceptable." I said that 0.06Ω was great, but it was more important to have accurate resistance. So if they can do 0.06Ω and accurate, great, but if it making it accurate means raising it to 0.10Ω, that is better.

So this was a subtle way of suggesting that if they did lower it for marketing reasons, they need to undo that.

 

[TheBloke]

Really? What settings?

It passed on mine, with several wire types.

though actually not Ni200, now I think about it!

The -0.04 is so severe for low Ni200 builds that even NP100 isn't quite right, so it wouldn't amaze me to find it burnt it even at NP100 (I think the required value is NP105 or something.)

 

[dwcraig1]

Really? What settings?

It passed on mine, with several wire types.

95 np, 450 F, 28 watts then 95 np, 450 F, 20 watts and then did pretty good @ 95 np, 400 F,20 watts.

The center burn is 450@28 watts. left 450@20 watts. right 400@20watts (rayon) 3 fires ea.

 

[TheBloke]

What was the ohms reading of the coil on the SXK? In any case you probably want NP100 for most Ni200 builds, at least those with a (real) reading of 0.15 and below. At 0.20 (real) and above <100 might work.

I think we might be fair at saying that at this stage, with the poor resistance reading, the SXK chip is not particularly strong for Ni200. It's probably usable at NP100 or close to it, but it won't be ideal. The low resistance has too high a % effect with those low resistances - although the resistance rise does increase as the base increases, the overall % decreases - the lowest difference is 16.7% around 0.30Ω - 0.50Ω (real). Ie good Titanium/Resistherm/Stainless Steel territory, but unachievable with Ni200.

 

[Quantum Mech]

can i check real quick what type of screwdriver needed to top cap off (torx t8?) and screwing off and then back on is enough for waidea shorting? Im not even sure if they symtom i mentioned falls under the same..
any feedback would be appreciated.

I am not sure if they are hex or torx

A quick look under the lid will confirm or eliminate this possibility for you

 

[TheBloke]

I believe they're actually hex but Torx heads work just as well/better.

 

[dwcraig1]

My coils resistance is 0.12Ω but SKX sees it as 0.08Ω

 

[Quantum Mech]

I did few fires to get an ohm reading and it read 0.2 then immediately started acted weirdly - jumping the ohms higher. When I stop firing the button, the screen doesnt show a firing action but the coil started glowing.. as if someone firing it.

This is why I suggested checking the 510 pin is not shorting

Hope it helps anyway

 

[damped]

I am not sure if they are hex or torx

A quick look under the lid will confirm or eliminate this possibility for you

a few pages back

Vapor Flask V3 DNA40 Clone thread | Page 148 | E-Cigarette Forum

definitely hex

 

[TheBloke]

My coils resistance is 0.12Ω but SKX sees it as 0.08Ω

OK, and what device was that? If the real wire resistance is 0.12Ω (ie no static resistance), then NP100 is best that's available but a way off (the real required value is more than NP112); if the real resistance is 0.11Ω (0.01Ω SR), then still NP100 but it's quite close to the actual required value of NP102; if the real resistance is 0.10Ω (0.02Ω SR) then NP90.

So try NP90 - maybe you have 0.02Ω SR on that atty.

The fact that you're getting burnt cotton indicates NP is too high, not too low (as I just re-realised myself!)

For future builds I'd highly recommend trying to build to 0.15+Ω (real) if possible - maybe with higher gauge/twisted wire. 0.20Ω if you can get there. The higher the resistance the less effect you will get from the low resistance reading, and the less offset you need on NP; put another way, as long as you can build such that the calculated NP is <=100, you can adjust for the low resistance fairly well.

As an example, a coil that reads 0.12Ω on the SXK but 0.16Ω on other mods (0.04Ω drop), but we suspect to be 0.15Ω (0.01Ω SR - quite likely in any atty) only requires NP90. So that's a 0.03Ω offset working at NP90, compared to a 0.08Ω SXK / 0.12 on other mods / assumed 0.11Ω (0.01Ω SR) which is also a 0.03Ω offset but requires NP104 - not possible, and therefore won't be too accurate at NP100.

Or buy some Titanium and/or Stainless Steel 316 or 317 which is much nicer to work with, tastes better (some say anyway), and has much higher starting resistance where the offsets are much less of a problem - doubly so because their correct TCR/NP values are much lower (35 Titanium, 11 Stainless Steel) so there's a whole lot more scale to work into, and every 0.01Ω incorrect resistance has less impact.

A Titanium or, Stainless Steel or Resistherm coil reading 0.30Ω - 0.50Ω is the most accurate possible on the device, as it has the lowest resistance offset in that range - around 16%, compared to 40% for a 0.12Ω coil read as 0.08Ω (before SR is taken into account.)

 

[TheBloke]

I need to keep remembering that too low NP = limits TC too much; too high = doesn't limit enough.

In my original version of above post I suggested putting the NP higher to fix burnt cotton. Of course it's the opposite - burnt cotton suggests NP is already too high.

So @dwcraig1 if you are getting burnt cotton at NP95, try a lower NP value - based on your 0.08Ω reading on a 0.12Ω coil, it may be that NP90 is right - meaning that the atty you used has 0.02Ω of static resistance (perfectly possible in an RTA; perhaps unusual in an RDA but certainly not unheard of.)

Even things like dirty screws can apparently add a lot of SR on any atty - as can any number of things on RTAs like poor springs and poor joins between sections, not to mention the sheer amount of extra metal involved.

 

[snow blind]

Is there anyplace you can still buy the SXK 60w TC Flask? I've been out of the loop regarding this guy... really, really dying for a 60w TC mod in the Flask's form factor!

I've even emailed SXK without a response as well as sent messages on FaceBook. :\

 

[dwcraig1]

I wonder if jalexander got it working.