Vaporflask partnered with Wismec/Joyetech

[KenD]

VF offers the Brillpower 26650 (not sure who the real maker is under the wrap), and I'm willing to give VF the benefit of the doubt on both choosing a decent and safe battery to offer for sale to go with their device, and being sensible about the power rating on the Stout, since it's their reputation on the line, and they're the ones handling warranty expenses as well. If just ONE of these vents a battery, it would damage the hell out of both their reputation and Wismec's.

Lets also not forget, the Stout auto-restricts max output based on resistance/max device voltage, AND won't fire at ALL if the actual battery voltage at the time of firing has dropped to unsafe levels for the wattage setting selected. It's not a pipe bomb.

Brillipower's 18650s have been shown to have highly inflated amp ratings, as rewrapps usually. I wouldn't give vf that much credit for choosing that particular brand. Mooch is testing 26650s at the moment so soon we'll have some reliable information.

Amp draw isn't dependent on resistance on vw mods, so if the Stout somehow tries to protect against that by restricting output based on resistance the designers of the chip don't know what they're doing. My guess is that it simply restricts wattage based on the max voltage it can fire at. That's no real protection against excessive amp draw. What's the source on the Stout restricting wattage based on battery voltage? And what voltage has been set as safe for a particular wattage (that would seem important information)? That differs according to the cdr of different batteries.

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[Croak]

Max device voltage is limited by resistance, and that's bounded by amperage, no two ways around it. And the Stout simply does not fire at all if the battery level (after sag) is too low, you have to manually reduce your wattage setting to get it to fire at that point. I reckon that voltage low limit is somewhere around the standard 3.2v to 3.4v range most manufacturers use. By doing that, they ALSO restrict the amp draw, no two ways around that either.

Watch the Mike Vapes video, you can clearly see it refusing to fire at higher wattages (low battery message) even though the battery is showing more than half a charge, and it continues to display this message as he lowers the wattage until it's drastically reduced.

The damn thing is safe, and it's not some no-name Shenzhen garage making the boards, it's Joyetech and they put their brand name on it too.

 

[nelsonm64]

 

[KenD]

Max device voltage is limited by resistance, and that's bounded by amperage, no two ways around it. And the Stout simply does not fire at all if the battery level (after sag) is too low, you have to manually reduce your wattage setting to get it to fire at that point. I reckon that voltage low limit is somewhere around the standard 3.2v to 3.4v range most manufacturers use. By doing that, they ALSO restrict the amp draw, no two ways around that either.

Watch the Mike Vapes video, you can clearly see it refusing to fire at higher wattages (low battery message) even though the battery is showing more than half a charge, and it continues to display this message as he lowers the wattage until it's drastically reduced.

The damn thing is safe, and it's not some no-name Shenzhen garage making the boards, it's Joyetech and they put their brand name on it too.

On a vw mod wattage and battery charge level determine the amp draw, wattage doesn't matter (watts / battery voltage = amps). Thus mods usually won't fire a certain resistance coil at a certain wattage due to that exceeding the volt limit of the mod. On the Stout that seems to be around 6v (can't find any information on the maximum voltage on the Vape Forward site). Anything other than that, the chip designer doesn't understand amp draw (the Evic vtc mini amp meter is totally useless as it shows the amps the atty sees, not the actual amp draw at the battery).

But yes, refusing to fire when the battery voltage with sag is below a certain level is how regulated mods should work, and most do. That's not really about amp draw though, other than battery sag being higher when the battery is pushed harder.

Could be that the Stout is pulsing above a certain wattage, like many two-battery 200w mods (if the designers have cared at all about safety).

I'm not putting down the chip. I love my VTC Mini and RX200. Among the best mods I've ever used.

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[KenD]

This is what Mooch says about 26650s in general:

It sure seems that way. 26650's have much higher internal resistance. This limits the current they can deliver without overheating. It also causes the voltage to sag further when taking a pull.

26650s are best thought of as "energy" cells...high capacity, lower amps.
18650's, for the most part, are best thought of as "power" cells...lower capacity, higher amps.

Though, some 18650's beat out some 26650's on all counts. Especially when you factor in size and weight.

So a 26650 100w device isn't the best of buys at the moment.

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[Firecrow]

I've been running the Stout on the crappy version of the MNKE 26650, 0.35ohm @ 16W and I've not been impressed with the run time. Might as well go back to my VTC Mini and 18650. I like the Stout, its a nice little ergonomic device, but it needs a good quality 26650 to show its full potential I imagine.

 

[Marc411]

This is what Mooch says about 26650s in general:

So a 26650 100w device isn't the best of buys at the moment.

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KenD, I've been following your posts in this thread and please do not take this response as a shot at you, it most definitely is not!

I see threads all over the site about the vendor responsibility and devices being made that offer to many watts or are just not safe.

I bought the flask knowing that there wasn't a 26650 that would power the device at that wattage but I did not purchase it with the idea of vaping at 100W.

Like anything else I believe that the consumer must take responsibility for the device they purchase and the cell they use to power that device. It's no different than going out and buying a stingray mech, building a .2 ohm coil and tossing a 10A battery in it. The real problem is that most don't do any research and just purchase gear and batteries they know nothing about.

Under the current environment there isn't a 26650 battery that will fire the device at 100W but our industry is moving quickly and there may be soon. But VF produced a device that appeals to many, they have the knowledge to match the build to the cell and can vape as the device was designed. VF also produced the device as many have pointed attempt to point out that will not fire for those that don't do the research or use common sense.

 

[Firecrow]

I bought the device thinking it would have better run time with a 26650, not fully knowing the state-of-the-art on those batteries. I never intended to run anything other than around 15W-25W in VW mode. I just assumed based on the 4000mah battery rating that it would do better than a 18650 at 2000mah - what I think now and continue to think is a reasonable assumption - which it turns out is not.

Research is one thing, but when battery manufacturers, OEMs and re-wrappers lie about rating and performance, you only discover it after the fact. If I waited a month or so (my usual tech rule) to read about this issue, I probably would have waited on the Stout, but my enthusiasm overrode my good sense.

 

[Marc411]

Firecrow, that is another aspect I left out of my post because we have no control over the integrity of manufactures and suppliers. This I know for a fact, RTD is a standup vendor and you'll find nothing but positive feedback about them on ECF.

I reached out for RTD and sent them a couple of links. They responded within 30 minutes thanking me for the information as they were unaware of the problem. They have already pulled the battery out of stock on their web store. That is integrity.

 

[Croak]

@Firecrow the good news is, you can run a quality 18650 in the Stout just fine, especially at the power levels you prefer.

And something else to consider, since so many people DO have positive experiences with 26650 battery life, is that this is a new device to you, and may fare even worse with a 2000mAh 18650...have you actually tried it with an 18650?

 

[Firecrow]

Oh, good point, didn't think of that...

 

[KSS89]

I tried to implement the firmware update for the VF stout. I downloaded the application from the wismec website and chose the "wismec update" option from the file. the window that pops up doesn't seem to recognize that I have my device hooked up to my computer. am I doing something wrong? has anyone been successfully able to do this?

 

[Firecrow]

I tried to implement the firmware update for the VF stout. I downloaded the application from the wismec website and chose the "wismec update" option from the file. the window that pops up doesn't seem to recognize that I have my device hooked up to my computer. am I doing something wrong? has anyone been successfully able to do this?

yeah, I upgraded to 2.0 with no problems... might be a USB detect issue.

 

[alanbt58]

I tried to implement the firmware update for the VF stout. I downloaded the application from the wismec website and chose the "wismec update" option from the file. the window that pops up doesn't seem to recognize that I have my device hooked up to my computer. am I doing something wrong? has anyone been successfully able to do this?

Hi KSS89
I tried it with a mini usb to usb i had lying around for a different device and that did the same would not regonise the device. So i got up from settee and got the supplied usb cable and it instantly regonised the lite and was then able to upgrade the firmware
Hope that helps

 

[alanbt58]

Something i found whilst messing about holding buttons,
1. In the off mode, press and hold the power and down button together for 5 -6 seconds and you will see the remaining battery voltage.
2. I have been talking to VF support and they have explained the M1, M2 and M3 function (in the off mode to enter this menu press and hold the power and up buttons together) and you will see the above followed by a 4 digit number. This is used to set the exact TCR for the material of your particular wire, For example default titanium grade 1 is 0.0035 therefore set M1 at 0350. Then 5 clicks to turn device on, 4 clicks to enter the temp material menu keep pressing the up button till you see temperature M1. This now puts you in the correct TCR for your wire ie Titanium, NI200, SS etc. You can pre-set up to 3 Memory settings.
Hope this helps everyone (i did it on a VF lite but given they all use the same chip i guess they will all be the same)

 

[jstrong]

100w on a single battery! That's a bad, bad design. And it really annoys me that popular reviewers can't learn such basic facts.

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Did you see a comment on Vaping With Twisted 420's video on the stout where someone pointed that out to him? His response was....You gotta be a simple sumbish. The 26650 can do it no issue. And I even stated it's not happening with a single 18650. Pay for these nuts bro.

 

[KenD]

Did you see a comment on Vaping With Twisted 420's video on the stout where someone pointed that out to him? His response was....You gotta be a simple sumbish. The 26650 can do it no issue. And I even stated it's not happening with a single 18650. Pay for these nuts bro.

I missed that. It's incredible how clueless these reviewers are!

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[deucesjack]

I missed that. It's incredible how clueless these reviewers are!

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Some of them really are clueless. I watch Mike Vapes just so I can see him try to pronounce stuff. The Chieftain video was classic.

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[jstrong]

I missed that. It's incredible how clueless these reviewers are!

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B&M stores are the same way. I was in one the other day picking up some Suicide Bunny and I had my Cuboid with me. The guy behind the counter was staring and asked if he could check it out. I told him sure. He asked me if I had upgraded to 200 watts and I told him no because it can't safely do that on 200 watts and he said 2 batteries can do 200 watts no problem After I left I got to thinking how many customers he gives bad battery advice too. What's sad is I noticed all the batteries were Efest It amazes me how reviewers and B&M stores know nothing about battery safety.

 

[jstrong]

Some of them really are clueless. I watch Mike Vapes just so I can see him try to pronounce stuff. The Chieftain video was classic.

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My favorite reviewer is Tip Rippers