Let's see.... I'm an alcoholic, that recovered 5 years ago, from almost dying from excessive drinking. I am SOBER and very happy....
Thank you..Vinegar?
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Thank you..
Let's see.... I'm an alcoholic, that recovered 5 years ago, from almost dying from excessive drinking. I am SOBER and very happy....
And you live in the Florida Keys?
You are brave man Jimi D.! A very brave man!
Pete
And since youre bringing up anniversaries...
look at my sig!
Congrats to us both for getting our stuffs together!
look at my sig!
Congrats to us both for getting our stuffs together!
Yes Pete, I was born and raised here. My Wife and family keep me occupied 24/7..and so does vaping..lol
Jimi
I am sampling the 6 tobacco mixes I mixed 4 days ago using 2 drops of Apple Cider Vinegar per 5ml. I can't believe how good they taste! They are all FA flavors and they all turned out to be very full flavored, smooth without any harshness. Usually I would have to let them steep for a week before they would lose the chemically/perfumery taste, but these are already done and taste great!
Pete
Pete
Pete,
I use the MA solution in every juice I mix, amount dependent on the flavor. I mix a Pom/Lemon Menthol that I just discovered with 3 drops per 10ml and it gives the flavoring a nice pronounced bite.
For my fruits I stick on the high side starting at 3 drops and going up. For others I do 1 drop per 10ml so I don't taste the sour but get the acid benefit. My next experiment will be to see how the vinegar differs from the MA solution in a tobacco flavor.
I have found my finished flavoring percentage has gone down 5% or more using this method.
I have also used Lemon Essential oil in a dilution and found that there is more flavor than acid benefit. Most of my flavors start with a lower ph and the VG balances with the nic raising even more as I have discovered.
My theory is that the mouth is acidic in nature. When you bring an alkaline flavor to the party, the mouth ph has to work to neutralize this ph, with the flavor suffering. If the juice matches the natural ph of the tongue I believe it carries much better. For a visual of the "work" your saliva has to do with an alkaline juice, mix lemon juice with baking soda and see what happens
A lt of reactions I son't fully understand yet.
I use the MA solution in every juice I mix, amount dependent on the flavor. I mix a Pom/Lemon Menthol that I just discovered with 3 drops per 10ml and it gives the flavoring a nice pronounced bite.
For my fruits I stick on the high side starting at 3 drops and going up. For others I do 1 drop per 10ml so I don't taste the sour but get the acid benefit. My next experiment will be to see how the vinegar differs from the MA solution in a tobacco flavor.
I have found my finished flavoring percentage has gone down 5% or more using this method.
I have also used Lemon Essential oil in a dilution and found that there is more flavor than acid benefit. Most of my flavors start with a lower ph and the VG balances with the nic raising even more as I have discovered.
My theory is that the mouth is acidic in nature. When you bring an alkaline flavor to the party, the mouth ph has to work to neutralize this ph, with the flavor suffering. If the juice matches the natural ph of the tongue I believe it carries much better. For a visual of the "work" your saliva has to do with an alkaline juice, mix lemon juice with baking soda and see what happens
A lt of reactions I son't fully understand yet.
Great thread everyone, should this be a sticky ?
nobody reads stickys
You learn fast for a noob
But unfortunately, I think that's the truth & also the sad part especially for this DIY area.
Xmit you have great observational skills. I agree with everything you have said. When you think about it, almost everything we drink is acidic in some way. Coke, Pepsi, Lemon Aid, fruit juices, coffee, tea, wine and even milk which has a pH of between 6.4 to 6.8 making it slightly acidic.
I think it is not IF we need to add acids to our e-juices, but that we MUST add acids to our juices to enhance the flavors and also to preserve those flavors for as long as possible.
Here is a brief rundown of our progress with the 4 acids we have been testing:
Concentrated Lemon Juice
1 to 3 drops per 5ml. (Real Lemon Brand concentrated lemon juice. The one at the grocery store that looks like a lemon.)If you overdo it with lemon juice you will start to taste the lemon along with the sour taste. The threshold for noticing the lemon juice appears to be around 3 drops per 5ml. Now even if you started noticing it at 3 drops it might not be a bad thing depending on what you are mixing. Think of a little twang of lemon in a fruit or berry flavor, it might not be a bad thing. I think if we experimented with citric acid it might not have the lemon flavor but I don't know that yet.
Vinegar
1 to 3 drops per 5ml. (Straight from the bottle.) If you overdo it with the vinegar you will taste the vinegar flavor. The threshold for vinegar appears to be around 3 drops per 5ml. If you start to taste the vinegar it is probably not a good thing unless you are making a dill pickle mix! For anyone that makes tobacco mixes YOU NEED TO TRY THIS! Add 2 drops per 5ml of Apple Cider Vinegar to your mix. You will not believe the improvement in your juice! There are actually many different kinds of vinegar available and I have only tested two types, Apple Cider and Malt Vinegar. I think we could also consider this as a flavoring there are so many different kinds of vinegar. The vinegar I used, and seems to be the industry standard here in the USA had printed on the label "diluted with water to 5% acidity".
Malic Acid
1 to 3 drops per 5ml. (Malic Acid dilution. 1/2 teaspoon into 10ml of PG. This makes it a 20% solution.) If you overdo it with malic acid you will start to taste sour. That's it, just sour without any flavor. This might be a good thing. Want to put some zing into that orange or berry flavor? This would probably work with malic acid.
Tartaric Acid
1 to 3 drops per 5ml. (Tartaric Acid dilution. 1/2 teaspoon into 10ml of PG. This makes it a 20% solution.)Tartaric acid seems to operate the same as malic acid in my tests so far. They may be interchangeable but I'm not sure yet. THIS IS NOT CREAM OF TARTAR THAT SOME VENDORS TRY AND PASS OFF AS TARTARIC ACID!
Okay everybody....Its the weekend! Let's get mixing! This should be enough information for you to try it in your mixes this weekend. Don't forget to stop back and post with your results!
Good luck!
Pete
I think it is not IF we need to add acids to our e-juices, but that we MUST add acids to our juices to enhance the flavors and also to preserve those flavors for as long as possible.
Here is a brief rundown of our progress with the 4 acids we have been testing:
Concentrated Lemon Juice
1 to 3 drops per 5ml. (Real Lemon Brand concentrated lemon juice. The one at the grocery store that looks like a lemon.)If you overdo it with lemon juice you will start to taste the lemon along with the sour taste. The threshold for noticing the lemon juice appears to be around 3 drops per 5ml. Now even if you started noticing it at 3 drops it might not be a bad thing depending on what you are mixing. Think of a little twang of lemon in a fruit or berry flavor, it might not be a bad thing. I think if we experimented with citric acid it might not have the lemon flavor but I don't know that yet.
Vinegar
1 to 3 drops per 5ml. (Straight from the bottle.) If you overdo it with the vinegar you will taste the vinegar flavor. The threshold for vinegar appears to be around 3 drops per 5ml. If you start to taste the vinegar it is probably not a good thing unless you are making a dill pickle mix! For anyone that makes tobacco mixes YOU NEED TO TRY THIS! Add 2 drops per 5ml of Apple Cider Vinegar to your mix. You will not believe the improvement in your juice! There are actually many different kinds of vinegar available and I have only tested two types, Apple Cider and Malt Vinegar. I think we could also consider this as a flavoring there are so many different kinds of vinegar. The vinegar I used, and seems to be the industry standard here in the USA had printed on the label "diluted with water to 5% acidity".
Malic Acid
1 to 3 drops per 5ml. (Malic Acid dilution. 1/2 teaspoon into 10ml of PG. This makes it a 20% solution.) If you overdo it with malic acid you will start to taste sour. That's it, just sour without any flavor. This might be a good thing. Want to put some zing into that orange or berry flavor? This would probably work with malic acid.
Tartaric Acid
1 to 3 drops per 5ml. (Tartaric Acid dilution. 1/2 teaspoon into 10ml of PG. This makes it a 20% solution.)Tartaric acid seems to operate the same as malic acid in my tests so far. They may be interchangeable but I'm not sure yet. THIS IS NOT CREAM OF TARTAR THAT SOME VENDORS TRY AND PASS OFF AS TARTARIC ACID!
Okay everybody....Its the weekend! Let's get mixing! This should be enough information for you to try it in your mixes this weekend. Don't forget to stop back and post with your results!
Good luck!
Pete
The Lemon Essential Oil is an oil and probably does not dilute into the PG and VG very well. Essential oils in general are used just for flavorings and not for their acid content. The reason we chose to use concentrated lemon juice is that the main ingredient is citric acid with perhaps some flavoring to make it taste like lemon. That and the fact that it was cheap and I could just but it at my local grocery store!
Thanks again for all your input on this thread. You have been very helpful and enlightening.
Pete
great summary man
do you notice a taste difference btw malt vinegar and apple cider? I only have white at hand, I may pick those up
do you notice a taste difference btw malt vinegar and apple cider? I only have white at hand, I may pick those up
I don't really think the flavor of vinegar makes much difference as long as you use 2 drops or less per 5ml. You won't taste it at that strength but it will make a HUGE difference to your tobacco flavor.
I used the Malt Vinegar in a certain mix to try and achieve a certain effect to a flavor using slightly more vinegar. And guess what? It worked!
White vinegar should be fine. Just remember...2 drops or less per 5ml and you shouldn't be able to taste it.
Good luck!
Pete
It really is amazing how a few drops of vinegar or lemon juice can make such a huge difference. I'm in a slump with testing because I'm sick and can't taste or smell but I sure as heck keep up with my reading and learning while I'm healing. I so appreciate the input from everyone. I hope to be contributing again soon. All I can say is, before we learned this little tweaking trick, I was pulling my hair out because NOTHING was tasting good. Now (or before my respiratory system went haywire) I can mix just about anything and make it enjoyable. This is such a giving and caring group of people!
A few drops of Apple Cidar Vinegar in my 10ml bottles of flavored tobaccos has done wonders.
Thanks to all!
Thanks to all!
So it certainly made a big improvement in my tobacco mixes, just not sure I can articulate what it is!
The harshness is gone on, the flavors are smoother and pop out more, and the vapor is thicker on the exhale and tastes far more full and smooth in the inhale. I'm sure I'm not hallucinating.
Very cool
The harshness is gone on, the flavors are smoother and pop out more, and the vapor is thicker on the exhale and tastes far more full and smooth in the inhale. I'm sure I'm not hallucinating.
Very cool
Thank you SO MUCH for summarizing it like this Pete. I hadnt tried it yet, but your thread made it so clear and easy to understand that I'm going to go try it right now! Thanks!!!
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