Patterns in history repeat themselves.
It is time for a RE-introduction...
If you are not worried, you are not paying attention.
I
Merry Christmas!!!
Was issued a citation for vaping by the NYC MTA (Subway)
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Patterns in history repeat themselves.
It is time for a RE-introduction...
If you are not worried, you are not paying attention.
I
Merry Christmas!!!
First let me say I am not seeking to be against you as I am a former 40 year smoker now vaper. So I must by on your side and other vapers by necessity. But I myself have not in my time seen the tide turn back. I live in the burbs of NY and am subject to the cultural shifts that surround me. Smoking is on the decline and many now not smoking have been smokers of one degree or the other. The former smokers are sometimes my secret allies and are tollerant of my vaping. Others are not inclined as such whether former smoker or never a smoker.
I just worry that being difficult towards the intollerant could lead to more stringent enforcement and laws. To me being less noticed is not such a bad thing and could be interpreted as a form of acceptance. So I urge caution where going against the grain is concerned. That being said we all do what we do and I do vape in public but don't strike a big superman I dare you to complain pose and hope it will work out.
So hopefully you won't take my position as being confrontation and we all agree to disagree
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Did anyone really read the article? Seems the person wasn't vaping but the PV was firing within a bag and vapor was coming out of the bag. They thought it was some hazardous situation or perhaps a bomb. Probably thought it was a terrorist attack.
"Police said they received a "genuine report" of vapour escaping from a bag."
"The spokeswoman said: "We can now confirm that, whilst this was a genuine security alert, the significant concerns reported to us were unfounded.
"It's important to state that no criminal offence has been committed and no passenger or any other member of the public is being treated as a suspect.
"We would like to apologise for any inconvenience and hope that the public understand that we have our duty to safeguard public safety."
Rock & roll mate.. I still can't get my head round the fact, that smoking outside is prohibited in various states and indeed hospital grounds here in the UK. The thing about the Hospitals is, patients sit right outside the front doors and smoke away and no one bats an eyelid... Now..... You can't be serious about getting nicked in the USA for smoking outdoors within 100 meters or whatever of a school, can you? I mean that's madness.
Yes the M6 toll incident was unfortunate but it did bring to attention vaping and it's benefits to a wider public which in the end worked out quite well. Yes I do vape in supermarkets, in fact I am off to one in a minute then I am going to a gig and we will vape to our hearts content with no bother at all. The Op was treated badly. when all the officer had to do was ask, just like the person who caused the mayhem on the M6 toll should have done. Never been to NYC but judging by the ridiculous no smoking laws I guess I won't bother
It matters not if someone appears to have broken the law based upon applying a Wikipedia definition of an act. What matters is whether someone actually did break a law, according to the definition of the act in the law.
In Virginia, in 2010, the State Board of Health put information on its site stating that using an e-cigarette violates the state's smoking ban. One woman vaper convinced her state delegate to look into the matter. The delegate approached the Virginia Attorney General and asked for a ruling on the question. The AG, Kenneth Cuccinelli, issued an official opinion:
The document is posted here on the Virginia state web site: http://www.oag.state.va.us/Opinions and Legal Resources/Opinions/2010opns/10-029-Peace.pdf
I might suggest that the OP print the Virginia document to take with him to a hearing. Also might want to print the tri-fold brochure explaining e-cigarettes and how they differ from smoked cigarettes. http://www.casaa.org/uploads/CASAA-Ecig-TriFold-Brochure.pdf
alank, your views are expressed clearly & calmly and are certainly not confrontational. You seek to minimize the fuss around our activity. I suppose that is understandable. I am not sure it a winning tactic, however. I remember in 1990 or so when the smoking restrictions started. At the time, we were told these reasonable restrictions were just a few things that would make certain public places safer. We went along to get along. Now, we have many privately owned places where smoking is banned, even if the owner wishes to allow it. There are many outdoor venues where smoking (and in many cases vaping) is banned. What is the sense of it? How did it come to this?
I fear if we avoid hurting the feelings of intolerant, we project weakness. They will oppose us no matter what we do. Now, there are places I do not vape in public. Crowded indoor areas are not a good choice. I agree that a public train or bus is a poor vaping location. I do not want to needlessly irritate my fellow citizens with boorish behavior.
In places where vaping makes sense, however, I do not negotiate my right to vape. I was recently confronted on an outdoor patio at a bar by one of the ANTZ. Politely, but with absolute firmness, I told them what I was doing was completely safe and legal. My resolve in this actually emboldened a couple of fellow vapers who were also there to pull out their PV's and join me. We had a wonderful 15 minute conversation that we would have never had without their new found sense of courage.
Choose your battles and stand. Never choose where you stand poorly. Stand with absolute conviction when you are right. Respect others, but insist they respect your rights as well.
I fear if we avoid hurting the feelings of intolerant, we project weakness. They will oppose us no matter what we do. Now, there are places I do not vape in public. Crowded indoor areas are not a good choice. I agree that a public train or bus is a poor vaping location. I do not want to needlessly irritate my fellow citizens with boorish behavior.
In places where vaping makes sense, however, I do not negotiate my right to vape. I was recently confronted on an outdoor patio at a bar by one of the ANTZ. Politely, but with absolute firmness, I told them what I was doing was completely safe and legal. My resolve in this actually emboldened a couple of fellow vapers who were also there to pull out their PV's and join me. We had a wonderful 15 minute conversation that we would have never had without their new found sense of courage.
Choose your battles and stand. Never choose where you stand poorly. Stand with absolute conviction when you are right. Respect others, but insist they respect your rights as well.
Ken Cuccinelli is the man. We are very fortunate to have him in VA as our AG.
In which case I would be more concerned with the re-introduction of the guillotine.
And if we both have French revolutionaries in mind, it didn't bode well for those either side of the blade.
Thank you for your good wishes.
Personally, I don't vape everywhere, I vape at home, in my car, in my office. I don't feel the need to vape elsewhere, smoking took care of that and spending 3 years fighting with myself to stay off tobacco I learned all sorts of coping mechanisms to not require nicotine at all times. That does not mean because I can do it, I must judge others or be judgmental of their actions because they cannot. The laws of NY state will not be influenced because someone exhaled Vapour on the subway.
They'll be influenced by the FDA and their stance on electronic cigarettes and by campaigns pursued by CASAA and the like.
I have read many times on this forum by many that simply taking a back seat and not vaping openly and respectfully will lead us all into the situation that Smokers are facing. We have been told many times we should not suffer from Smokers Guilt, as we are not smoking, yet here, were faced with someone doing exactly that and being penalised for it.
Instead of offering support and solutions, we find reasons to flog said person because his actions may be deemed as detrimental to the Vaping cause.
Frankly the MTA officer could have given jeenam a warning and asked him to not do it again as it would only cause confusion, citing him was unfair. As the MTA does not have a proper definition of smoking I would say jeenam is within his rights to contest the citation and should win. He won't know unless he tries, and if he is successful, that will be a feather in every Vapers cap. Should he fail, it won't be a train smash either.
Thank you Ms Vocalek for your input and helping jeenam with his defense.
No offense, but you have no basis for this. There are NO long term studies, there are barely any short term studies. We do not know how safe vaping is. Is it safer than smoking? I'm convinced it is, but I can't prove that. Is it "completely safe"? We can't say that.
How about that study that was made using filters that showed no measurable amount of bad stuff?
mmmmmmmmm?
mmmmmmmmm?
What about it? Did it actually use the words "no measurable amount of bad stuff" ?
The absents of a word is proof of it not being there at the time of the writting only. If no updated writting can be found then it is what it is!
No wording means it's silent.
No wording means it's silent.
True. Safer does not mean safe. It is not without some health risk. We believe it to be less risk than cigarettes. However, it takes just 1 carcinogen or other health threat to be of concern. It wasn't long ago that some juices contained diacetyl in the ingredients. We now know it is a concern as a carcinogen. Most ejuice makers have now removed it or say they have.
And yes, there are many more chemicals in cigarettes, but it only takes one bad chemical to make something harmful. We aren't necessarily home free, just yet.
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Well you can certainly say that what I am saying cannot be proven. I concede that point. What I was expressing to the person who confronted me outdoors (and downwind) was that what I was doing was safe to them. So I also concede that my post was clumsily worded.
You make an interesting point about long term studies, so my health may or may not be jeopardized. I would argue, however, that of the studies of nicotine (when not delivered by tobacco use), none have conclusively linked its use to health issues. There is some evidence it is very similar to caffeine in its effects on the body. True, as any stimulant does, nicotine does pose a risk to those with cardiovascular issues since it raises the blood pressure of the user. Other than nicotine, there is no ingredient in most vapor juice that has been found conclusively harmful to humans at all when used as they would vaping. Remember, PG and VG are not new chemicals. Their impacts on humans have been studied by chemical companies (and the opponents of chemical companies) for decades.
So while I cannot prove it is completely safe, I am not out of line saying it. I believe I have some basis in facts for the statement, despite my lack of proof. By the way, your view challenging mine is not in the least bit offensive. I actually kind of like it.
I'm also in NYC don't believe that they would do something like that knowing that it isn't smoke!! Have you gone to court on this issue....
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I don't disagree with any of that. My body and my common sense tell me what you say is true. I'm just saying we can't go around stating things we can't prove have been proven.
And I'm saying we need to educate, not inflame.
Point well made. I also do not wish to inflame (that is why I quit combustibles!), but we do need to insist that our rights be respected when they do not infringe on the rights of others.
Won't argue and do respect your position. My earlier post in this thread described where I was semi-stealthily vaping in public last night in a bar. I carefully took a hit in a hidden way and expelled the vape which caught a friend off guard. She had that bug eyed look of OMG what are doing. The look was hilarious to see but I quickly cleared up what exactly I was doing. Another woman sitting with her group of friends later inquired about my PV. She had an interest in getting her mother to consider vaping, I gave her a few web reference including this site. I don't think my discretion in when and where is all that wimpy, just carefully non-confrontational maybe even passive-aggressive. But considering I was in the city where they can give you tickets for smoking on the sidewalk I don't think I am conceding. The truth is vaping will likely never be considered safe just safer than tobacco smoke.
One thing though if get asked not to continue vaping, even when trying to fly under the radar, I usually concede politely. I do have the option of leaving and moving onto friendlier territory.
Vape on
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