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Depending on the scale accuracy, weight more often (hundreds of a gram read out is available) than not. Some folks might be able to tell which method a mixer used but syringes always did the job for me.
I use the scale for nic, flavor, PG, and VG. My juices always come out close to what I expected.
My wife uses my scale to weigh envelopes she's about to mail to make sure the postage is correct. Nothing's ever been returned for insufficient postage so far.
Mixing that's done with reasonable care should be pretty much the same with weight or volume mixing.
My wife uses my scale to weigh envelopes she's about to mail to make sure the postage is correct. Nothing's ever been returned for insufficient postage so far.
Mixing that's done with reasonable care should be pretty much the same with weight or volume mixing.
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We use percentage while mixing our liquids, but what would be most exact for the VG and PG ?
Kinda an Open Ended Question. Exact to what Level of Accuracy?
And what Level of Accuracy is needed to do Repeatable DIY?
Scales come with calibration weights. Syringes and beakers are marked with fill lines. Both methods should be reasonably accurate. It's all up to the user to make accuracy happen.
I agree. Either measuring by Volume or by Weight are perfectly Viable.
Or in My Case... Both.
How do you prefer to mea sure your recipe?
If you're into mixing by weight, know that
So for the sake of simplicity everything is about 1g/mL except VG.
If you input your recipe into a site like e-liquid-recipes dot com it will do the math for you. (For some reason our forum does not like that link)
- PG is 0.965g/mL, nearly the same as water
- VG is 1.259g/mL, about 1/4 heavier than water
- Nicotine is either in PG or VG solution.
- Flavors are usually in PG solution
So for the sake of simplicity everything is about 1g/mL except VG.
If you input your recipe into a site like e-liquid-recipes dot com it will do the math for you. (For some reason our forum does not like that link)
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I use Botboy's gram weights for ingredients. Not that much different than your posted weights.
- Weight of PG: 1.038 grams per ml
- Weight of VG: 1.26 grams per ml
- Weight of Pure Nicotine: 1.01 grams per ml
- Weight of 100mg in PG: 1.035 grams per ml
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I am about as obsessive as they come.We use percentage while mixing our liquids, but what would be most exact for the VG and PG ?
And, being so, this was a question I asked myself, too. As I started researching; I learned that all method have their limitations.Scales have varying levels of tolerance. Some can be rather high (when working with the small units of measure DIYers often use). Greater accuracy (smaller tolerances) can be had; but usually at much greater cost. And, even then, they have their own idiosyncrasies: sensitivity to air currents, vibration, and even temperature changes.
Calibration weights also can have a wide range of acceptable tolerance. And these are for weights often costing $60 (each) and up. How much tolerance do you suppose might be acceptable in the freebies that are included with a $35 scale?
Then, you still have to include the human factor. How often, and how much, one is likely to over/under pour, is also going to effect precision.
Okay, so scales aren't "all that and a bag of chips." What about syringes?
We still have limitations. Syringes made for medical use (the ones we most often find), can have as much as a 5% tolerance (for a 1mL syringe; larger syringes can have even higher tolerances).
Then, again, there is the human factor. Is the syringe being used correctly? Is the appropriate seal ring being used to line up with the graduation mark... or is it above, below, or even in between the necessary graduation? And, if so, how much? Are there air bubbles? Is the user "double pumping" the syringe (depressing the plunger more than once, to get all the liquid out; resulting in excess material)? And, in my case, just plain old lousy eyesight.
Graduated cylinders, and graduated glass/plastic pipettes, have their own acceptable tolerances, are subject to human error, and... how does one account for the leftover material clinging to the inside walls?
And beakers? Unless they are certified (and then they still have an acceptable tolerance) are marked for "general" reference only. I have a 25mL borosilicate glass beaker, whose silk-screened graduations are fully 5mL off. It is a worthy mixing container; but worthless as a measuring device.
"Well, fine... they all leave something to be desired. Now what?"
For DIY; it really boils down to repeatability, and convenience.
Repeatability is the ability to do the same actions/processes over and over, and get the same results. When I mix the same recipe time after time; does it always taste the same? If it does; one has (in my mind; at least) acceptable repeatability.
Convenience is just that... is it convenient to use? This is where personal choice becomes important. Cost, availability, storage, maintenance, cleanup, ease of use, legibility, durability, etc.; all have varying levels of importance to each of us. Selecting the method of measurement becomes quite personal.
Finding methods that are pleasant, enjoyable, fun... or at least not a hassle; are essential to encouraging the DIYer to mix. If something is tedious, bothersome, or leaves you second guessing all the time; you are going to be less inclined to mix.
For one person; it might be a $1,000 scale, and another $500 worth of calibration weights. While another person gets just as satisfying results; using a handful of 50¢ syringes. Not to mention the near infinite range of folks in between.
Counting drops is not something I can personally wrap my mind around. Tip size and shape, viscosity, surface tension, and fluid temperature; are all too many variables, to make it a consideration for me. But, that is my own hang-up. There are those DIYers, who are perfectly content with their results counting drops, and enjoy their creations. Who am I to say they are wrong?
If you are enjoying your process of mixing, and making good/tasty e-liquids; chances are, you are mixing the right way... for you.
I'm not confused about precision of scales or measuring cylinders.
My confusion started when I realised, that 100 milliliter of 100% VG weights approx. 126g.
So ... mixing the nic and aroma using weight/volume, gives very different results in percentage.
My confusion started when I realised, that 100 milliliter of 100% VG weights approx. 126g.
So ... mixing the nic and aroma using weight/volume, gives very different results in percentage.
How so? Can you share a specific example that demonstrates this "very different" result?
Yes?
How is this a discrepancy? 126mg/100mL, or 1.26mg/mL. This reflects the data that @GOMuniEsq, and @DaveP, shared in posts #7 & 8. If you use correct weight values; the percentage remains the same... regardless of measuring method.
It is only when one fails to use the correct weight value; that discrepancies arise.
If you wanna be totally beancounting-nitpicking about it, go by weight.
Volume changes ever so slightly depending on the temperatures of the ingredients.
Might set off the flavour from cheesecake to has-been-sitting-on-the counter-for-30-minutes-cheesecake
But we're not some molecule counting, nanogram weighing research lab, so we have to make do with a quiet ( no kids no pets no in-laws ) and reasonably clean corner in our dwellings.
Mix a test batch of 10ml either by weight or by volume, slipping on 0.1 ml is 1% error. Mix a batch of 100 ml and the same slip is negligible in the final result (0.1%). Measuring out 0.1 ml with 1 ml syringe or affordable scales weighing 0.01 gram increments, either is ok; boils down to personal preferences...
Volume changes ever so slightly depending on the temperatures of the ingredients.
Might set off the flavour from cheesecake to has-been-sitting-on-the counter-for-30-minutes-cheesecake
But we're not some molecule counting, nanogram weighing research lab, so we have to make do with a quiet ( no kids no pets no in-laws ) and reasonably clean corner in our dwellings.
Mix a test batch of 10ml either by weight or by volume, slipping on 0.1 ml is 1% error. Mix a batch of 100 ml and the same slip is negligible in the final result (0.1%). Measuring out 0.1 ml with 1 ml syringe or affordable scales weighing 0.01 gram increments, either is ok; boils down to personal preferences...
You kept making under-filled batches, didn't you?That's the point. Previously, I was treating VG weight as it was water ...
I have made the same mistake.
But, that is a weakness in our own understanding/application, and not the method, percentages, or math. Input proper data; and you get proper results.
Of course; that is still no guarantee, I am going to like another person's recipe.
Part of the question is whether your goal is some abstract sense of accuracy or simply the ability to reproduce your own results. As long as you're consistently using the same form of measurement, you should get repeatable results. On the other hand, if you're trying to reproduce someone else's recipe, you need to know whether the percentages they're talking about refer to volume or mass (since we're being a bit pedantic in this thread, I'll point out that in scientific terminology we're using units of mass, not weight).
100 ml of 50/50 by volume would have (using DaveP's figures):
100 ml of 50/50 by volume would have (using DaveP's figures):
- VG: 50 ml or 63 g
- PG: 50 ml or 51.9 g
- VG: 39.7 ml or 50 g
- PG: 48.2 ml or 50 g
I'm a pharmacist, I prefer to work by volumes when measuring liquids. I use syringes and graduated cylinders. Syringes for nicotine, and I use graduated cylinders for the larger volume ingredients.
Weight or volume can both be very accurate depending on your technique and equipment. Not all scales are created equal though, and if you get a lower quality scale, sometimes they can act squirrelly.
I have a scale capable of weighing down to 0.2 milligrams very accurately and precisely. However, it's not something you would use for weighing larger quantities.
For my purposes, graduated cylinders and syringes work perfectly fine. Clean up time is next to nothing.
Each to their own. I've mixed amounts from 30ml up to a gallon by volume. Just my preferred method.
Weight or volume can both be very accurate depending on your technique and equipment. Not all scales are created equal though, and if you get a lower quality scale, sometimes they can act squirrelly.
I have a scale capable of weighing down to 0.2 milligrams very accurately and precisely. However, it's not something you would use for weighing larger quantities.
For my purposes, graduated cylinders and syringes work perfectly fine. Clean up time is next to nothing.
Each to their own. I've mixed amounts from 30ml up to a gallon by volume. Just my preferred method.
I use volume, but I'm also not the kind of DIY who is going to freak out about an extra drop here or there.
I get perfectly reasonable, repeatable results and one time, I used TEASPOONS.
It's a long boring story but my point is my mixes were perfectly fine (I need about 5 ml of flavor in a mix, and like could not find my measuring equipment) and so I googled how much was in a teaspoon, and it was like 5.075 mg or something like that. So I dripped flavors (and believe me, I used the half and quarter teaspoons too, and it turned out great.
No washing syringes between flavors, heck they were metal so a good scrub with a bar mop in between was quite fine.
I still use them some of the time. But my point is (for me) precision is great, but so far all the mixes I made were just fine and some of them were repeats.
I am just not going to sweat it anymore with mixing. I have a premixed base, I add flavor to BOOM. Perhaps that type of precision is bad.... Say for cancer treatment.
But for DIY, I'm doing fine and my taste buds are happy.
Anna
I get perfectly reasonable, repeatable results and one time, I used TEASPOONS.
It's a long boring story but my point is my mixes were perfectly fine (I need about 5 ml of flavor in a mix, and like could not find my measuring equipment) and so I googled how much was in a teaspoon, and it was like 5.075 mg or something like that. So I dripped flavors (and believe me, I used the half and quarter teaspoons too, and it turned out great.
No washing syringes between flavors, heck they were metal so a good scrub with a bar mop in between was quite fine.
I still use them some of the time. But my point is (for me) precision is great, but so far all the mixes I made were just fine and some of them were repeats.
I am just not going to sweat it anymore with mixing. I have a premixed base, I add flavor to BOOM. Perhaps that type of precision is bad.... Say for cancer treatment.
But for DIY, I'm doing fine and my taste buds are happy.
Anna
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