Weight vs. Volume ?

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ScottP

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Two more differences I should point out between weight vs volume.

First, when using weight in a single bottle if you accidentally put in too much you can't take it back out (unless it was the first ingredient). When using volume in different cylinders, if you put in too much you can always pour some back out to get it right before adding it to the main bottle.

Second, when measuring using the cylinders there will ALWAYS be some residue left in the cylinder that didn't get added to the final mixture. Where as with weight, since you are using a single bottle there is no missed residue.

Bottom line, there are pro's and con's to either method, so do what you are most comfortable with.
 

score69

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I personally use volume because I have a set of graduated cylinders (10ml, 25 ml, 50ml, and 100ml) but I don't have a decent scale.

I posted the following in another thread, but re-posting here because it seems to fit:

Everyone gets so hung up on accuracy, but I mix 236ml bottles at 6mg/ml which takes 14.16ml of 100mg/ml nic base. Even if my margin of error was a FULL + or - 1ml, which it isn't, that means the min possible nic concentration in the final solution is 5.5mg/ml and the max is 6.4mg/ml. To be off by a full 1mg/ml difference I would have to be off by about 2.5ml in measuring 14.16ml. That just isn't going to happen. Neither case would even make a noticeable difference much less make it suddenly unsafe or even mildly hazardous. I doubt even being off by that much with flavoring would be detectable by taste.

The point here is measure the best you can with what you have. It will be close enough.
And I prefer volume, because if the mix is off, it's my fault.

My syringes and graduated cylinders will measure the same every time. That's not been my experience with inexpensive scales. Or, you never know for sure when you scale may start to act quirky.

The big push for me using volume is that it's much easier when mixing large quantities of juice. I can see where weight would work well for folks mixing smaller amounts 250ml or less. Once you start talking larger volumes, measuring by volume seems more simple to me. I would need a very capable scale to make liter and larger quantities like I do. One of these inexpensive kitchen scales won't cut it.

I got an inexpensive set of graduated cylinders from Amazon. The largest one in my set is 1000ml.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CX903K8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This works very well for my purposes.

Advantages and disadvantages to both, different strokes for different folks.
 
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score69

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buy the American Weigh Scales LB-501. The LB-3000 that looks just like it weighs higher ranges, but the accuracy is .1 gram. The LB-501 is accurate to .01 grams. Both might appear in your search for American Weigh Scales.
BTW, I did just order the LB-501. Hopefully this will take care of my other needs. If not, or if it fails to remain accurate after a few months, I'm done buying these types of scales. This will be my 3rd or 4th kitchen scale.

If I have to replace the LB-501 within the first 6 months, I'm just going to go ahead and buy a more professional scale with 0.01gm resolution. Found a few nice ones starting at $179. Much more expensive, but I've probably already dropped $100 on kitchen scales in the past. Will probably look at picking this up and just be content that it won't have to be replaced any time soon.

Veritas Precision Balances - Hogentogler.com

Keeping positive that the LB-501 will do the trick for my needs. :)
 
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DaveP

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BTW, I did just order the LB-501. Hopefully this will take care of my other needs. If not, or if it fails to remain accurate after a few months, I'm done buying these types of scales. This will be my 3rd or 4th kitchen scale.

If I have to replace the LB-501 within the first 6 months, I'm just going to go ahead and buy a more professional scale with 0.01gm resolution. Found a few nice ones starting at $179. Much more expensive, but I've probably already dropped $100 on kitchen scales in the past. Will probably look at picking this up and just be content that it won't have to be replaced any time soon.

Veritas Precision Balances - Hogentogler.com

Keeping positive that the LB-501 will do the trick for my needs. :)

Lots of ECF'ers are using the American Weigh Scales LB-501. I think you'll find it to be a good, reliable scale with consistent and repeatable accuracy. It's probably one of the best deals available in the under $100 price range. At around $25 on Amazon it's a steal. I use mine mainly for Ejuice DIY, but it seems to be accurate for mail envelopes, packages, and other similar applications.
 

AngeNZ

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    First, when using weight in a single bottle if you accidentally put in too much you can't take it back out (unless it was the first ingredient). When using volume in different cylinders, if you put in too much you can always pour some back out to get it right before adding it to the main bottle.

    Yep this can be an issue with measuring by scale. I always pour VG in first in case I have a heavy hand ;) I've changed a few mixes from 10ml to 15ml thanks to my crappy pouring skills :rolleyes:
     

    newyork13

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    I am about as obsessive as they come.:facepalm: And, being so, this was a question I asked myself, too. As I started researching; I learned that all method have their limitations.

    Scales have varying levels of tolerance. Some can be rather high (when working with the small units of measure DIYers often use). Greater accuracy (smaller tolerances) can be had; but usually at much greater cost. And, even then, they have their own idiosyncrasies: sensitivity to air currents, vibration, and even temperature changes.

    Calibration weights also can have a wide range of acceptable tolerance. And these are for weights often costing $60 (each) and up. How much tolerance do you suppose might be acceptable in the freebies that are included with a $35 scale?

    Then, you still have to include the human factor. How often, and how much, one is likely to over/under pour, is also going to effect precision.

    Okay, so scales aren't "all that and a bag of chips." What about syringes?

    We still have limitations. Syringes made for medical use (the ones we most often find), can have as much as a 5% tolerance (for a 1mL syringe; larger syringes can have even higher tolerances).

    Then, again, there is the human factor. Is the syringe being used correctly? Is the appropriate seal ring being used to line up with the graduation mark... or is it above, below, or even in between the necessary graduation? And, if so, how much? Are there air bubbles? Is the user "double pumping" the syringe (depressing the plunger more than once, to get all the liquid out; resulting in excess material)? And, in my case, just plain old lousy eyesight.

    Graduated cylinders, and graduated glass/plastic pipettes, have their own acceptable tolerances, are subject to human error, and... how does one account for the leftover material clinging to the inside walls?

    And beakers? Unless they are certified (and then they still have an acceptable tolerance) are marked for "general" reference only. I have a 25mL borosilicate glass beaker, whose silk-screened graduations are fully 5mL off. It is a worthy mixing container; but worthless as a measuring device.

    "Well, fine... they all leave something to be desired. Now what?"

    For DIY; it really boils down to repeatability, and convenience.

    Repeatability is the ability to do the same actions/processes over and over, and get the same results. When I mix the same recipe time after time; does it always taste the same? If it does; one has (in my mind; at least) acceptable repeatability.

    Convenience is just that... is it convenient to use? This is where personal choice becomes important. Cost, availability, storage, maintenance, cleanup, ease of use, legibility, durability, etc.; all have varying levels of importance to each of us. Selecting the method of measurement becomes quite personal.

    Finding methods that are pleasant, enjoyable, fun... or at least not a hassle; are essential to encouraging the DIYer to mix. If something is tedious, bothersome, or leaves you second guessing all the time; you are going to be less inclined to mix.

    For one person; it might be a $1,000 scale, and another $500 worth of calibration weights. While another person gets just as satisfying results; using a handful of 50¢ syringes. Not to mention the near infinite range of folks in between.

    Counting drops is not something I can personally wrap my mind around. Tip size and shape, viscosity, surface tension, and fluid temperature; are all too many variables, to make it a consideration for me. But, that is my own hang-up. There are those DIYers, who are perfectly content with their results counting drops, and enjoy their creations. Who am I to say they are wrong?

    If you are enjoying your process of mixing, and making good/tasty e-liquids; chances are, you are mixing the right way... for you. :thumbs:

    :D
    that's a great summary!
     

    newyork13

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    Two comments.
    First, here in Massachusetts where an unmentionable green herb is legal, in numerous shops one can buy scales going down to .01g, because they're used by whomever is buying/selling that herb.
    Second, I got really tired of a bunch of syringes to avoid commingling flavors. And, if I'm making small batches of juices to test recipes (say 10-20ml) it's far easier and I think more precise to do it by weight.
     

    DaveP

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    Thx. It's a pity I didn't pay closer attention to what the OP was actually trying to ask.:facepalm: :D

    You covered valuable info. Great post.

    Scales or syringes, it's as much about preference and dexterity as you develop the method that works best for you, IMO. In a typical DIY session I do four 100ml bottles of unflavored and a half dozen 50ml bottles of flavored juice. It would take a large syringe to do it quickly. Once I gained some expertise (in an amateur way) I found scales to be the best method, but that's just me. I can drip from a pipette quickly and accurately now.

    If I drip an unintended drop into a mix here and there, so what? :) It's not detectable in the vape. If my nic level changes from 3.0 mg/ml to 3.2 mg/ml I probably won't notice. I try to be dead on accurate, but +/- 5% of target is probably within acceptable limits.
     

    MMW

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    This is one of the better threads in a while on here! Nice work folks!

    When I saw the title I thought, "oh boy weight vs. volume could be the next mech vs. regulated/tc vs. power/Democrats vs. Republicans/high end vs. affordable hot button topics!

    I mix by volume even though it takes longer and more clean up because I don't trust my pouring abilities and it's what I've been doing for 2yrs. Plus, you're all wrong and my way is the right way ;):D

    Excellent thread!
     

    Winblows

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    Bought this noname weight ...
    gPvN9PN.png

    I'm not a perfectionist - for my approx. 100ml productions, I think it will do the job.
     

    GOMuniEsq

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    ... when I started this thread, I knew that I have issues with the subject ...
    so, I bought a premixed base 80VG/20PG and I wonder how to calculate the weight of 1ml of this base
    4ofHaAe.png
    It would be the weight of 0.8mL of VG plus 0.2 mL of PG.
    B1wD4c4.png
     

    Spydro

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    Just like with everything else in vaping my path in DIY from the start over six years ago was a progressive one. IOW how I did every aspect of vaping (including DIY) that continued to change with the so called latest/greatest hyped mods, atty's, tools, supplies, equipment, methodologies, etc, etc, etc when I paid attention to them (if at all) until something over 3 years ago. I mixed my DIY by volume for near 3 years before I saw the error of my ways. My changing had nothing to do with exact "repeat ability". My taste buds can't pick up on the small discrepancies that are a given with reasonable care in volume mixing. Nor do I need the nearer to exact repeat ability of mixing by weight. So volume mixing (that took extra time and work) went the way that a lot of other tools, supplies, methods and equipment for vaping went... out the door. I changed to mixing by weight because of the convenience of it. As in less time to mix and with next to nothing to clean up afterwards. All of my syringes, pipettes, dropper bottles, a lot of my lab glass, graduated cylinders, beakers, etc became dust bunnies until I started tossing them out. Dispenser bottles replaced them for mixing DIY by weight. At the same time I bought a magnetic stir plate to replace the UC, CP and all the other equipment bought for steeping DIY that I no longer would use. I only have around 25 of my 160+ recipes mixed on hand at a given time. That might seem to be a lot to some, but it's because I vape a lot more nic free joose per day/night than most folks do. My routine is to vape rotate 5-6 recipes at the same time together for 4-6 hours then switch to different ones for about the same "round the clock" (I seldom sleep more than a couple of hours a few times a week). Usually around 7 of my recipes are almost always on hand to be vaped on a whim, the closest thing I have to an ADV (although I may not vape them for 3-4-5 days as well). When any of the other recipe bottles run dry I clean them and rotate to another recipe I haven't vaped for awhile in it. Some of my recipes are also seasonal. They are only vaped during a relatively short specific time of the year that brings up fond memories to as far back as seven decades ago. It's what works for me, so I won't be changing gears again. YMMV
     

    gpjoe

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    I use volume, but I'm also not the kind of DIY who is going to freak out about an extra drop here or there.

    I get perfectly reasonable, repeatable results and one time, I used TEASPOONS.

    It's a long boring story but my point is my mixes were perfectly fine (I need about 5 ml of flavor in a mix, and like could not find my measuring equipment) and so I googled how much was in a teaspoon, and it was like 5.075 mg or something like that. So I dripped flavors (and believe me, I used the half and quarter teaspoons too, and it turned out great.

    No washing syringes between flavors, heck they were metal so a good scrub with a bar mop in between was quite fine.

    I still use them some of the time. But my point is (for me) precision is great, but so far all the mixes I made were just fine and some of them were repeats.

    I am just not going to sweat it anymore with mixing. I have a premixed base, I add flavor to BOOM. Perhaps that type of precision is bad.... Say for cancer treatment.

    But for DIY, I'm doing fine and my taste buds are happy.

    Anna

    ^^^ This.

    I mix with a scale and have the units on my recipes set to 1:1 - with no compensation for the specific gravity of the ingredients - and my juice tastes fine. I'm not stressing over it.
     
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