What IS their problem????

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SimianSteam

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Chas F.

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I totally agree with your last sentence, but it's not isolated to one side. At this point I'm just having fun with it. :vapor:

BTW, if I were in that situation I probably would've knocked the guy on his ..... Not because it was the right thing to do, but because I've got issues.

So you're here to stir the pot?
 

SimianSteam

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tA71ana

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Don't feed the trolls (whoever they are)
It doesn't matter if it happened at a flea market or the Gold Coast.
People should mind their own business.

ETA: As for this issue being discussed yet again..it will be discussed not just now but many times henceforth because Human nature does not change.
Those who do not stand up for themselves (in one way or another) and constantly defer to others wind up being figurative roadkill.
I also think that if one comes into a thread with the express purpose of attempting to close it because they don't like the subject matter or they are tired of hearing about it, then there are many more threads in the Forums to graze around in.
 
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Uma

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There's the back-patting I predicted! We're almost there.

It was a complement for saying so eloquently what I wished to say.

Why do have a problem with the phrase "ANTZ"?

I have a tendency to hate the phrases that consist of blame, shame, and ridicule. These phrases are strung throughout this thread. They mostly begin every sentence with the word "you".
 

Fulgurant

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Do you honestly think this thread serves any useful purpose at this point, or isn't replicated a dozen times over elsewhere?

Content-free insults surely don't help anything, either in the short term or the long term. It's a forum thread, not a city poised on the brink of an apocalypse; the fact that the thread may be nearing its end doesn't give you license to riot.

That is, unless you really are just hell-bent on antagonizing as many people as you possibly can so that the next thread descends directly into a frothing-at-the-mouth flamewar. If so, then rock on, I guess. :rolleyes:
 

izen

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Well, I've read this far... Haven't learned all that much... The problem is that we all forget, and the thought came to mind... (quoted below)

All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten

Robert L. Fulghum. All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten. Ballantine Books, 2003 (1986, 1988) ISBN: 034546639-X, pp.1-3.

Taken from the excerpt at Amazon.com; book details are here.


Credo

Each spring, for many years, I have set myself the task of writing a personal statement of belief: a Credo. When I was younger, the statement ran for many pages, trying to cover every base, with no loose ends. It sounded like a Supreme Court brief, as if words could resolve all conflicts about the meaning of existence.

The Credo has grown shorter in recent years - sometimes cynical, sometimes comical, and sometimes bland - but I keep working at it. Recently I set out to get the statement of personal belief down to one page in simple terms, fully understanding the naïve idealism that implied.

The inspiration for brevity came to me at a gasoline station. I managed to fill my old car's tank with super deluxe high-octane go-juice. My old hoopy couldn't handle it and got the willies - kept sputtering out at intersections and belching going downhill. I understood. My mind and my spirit get like that from time to time. Too much high-content information, and I get the existential willies. I keep sputtering out at intersections where life choices must be made and I either know too much or not enough. The examined life is no picnic.

I realized then that I already know most of what's necessary to live a meaningful life - that it isn't all that complicated. I know it. And have known it for a long, long time. Living it - well that's another matter, yes? Here's my Credo:

All I really need to know about how to live and what to do and how to be I learned in kindergarten. Wisdom was not at the top of the graduate-school mountain, but there in the sandpile at Sunday School. These are the things I learned:

Share everything.

Play fair.

Don't hit people.

Put things back where you found them.

Clean up your own mess.

Don't take things that aren't yours.

Say you're sorry when you hurt somebody.

Wash your hands before you eat.

Flush.

Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you.

Live a balanced life - learn some and think some and draw and paint and sing and dance and play and work every day some.

Take a nap every afternoon.

When you go out into the world, watch out for traffic, hold hands, and stick together.

Wonder. Remember the little seed in the Styrofoam cup: The roots go down and the plant goes up and nobody really knows how or why, but we are all like that.

Goldfish and hamsters and white mice and even the little seed in the Styrofoam cup - they all die. So do we.

And then remember the ....-and-Jane books and the first word you learned - the biggest word of all - LOOK.

Everything you need to know is in there somewhere. The Golden Rule and love and basic sanitation. Ecology and politics and equality and sane living.

Take any one of those items and extrapolate it into sophisticated adult terms and apply it to your family life or your work or your government or your world and it holds true and clear and firm. Think what a better world it would be if we all - the whole world - had cookies and milk about three o'clock every afternoon and then lay down with our blankies for a nap. Or if all governments had as a basic policy to always put things back where they found them and to clean up their own mess.

And it is still true, no matter how old you are - when you go out into the world, it is best to hold hands and stick together.


Copyright: Robert L. Fulghum
 

34 Hour Reset

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As do the rest of us. We ask for mutual respect.
However, when others come in and try to SHAME a person for defending themselves, just because they vape, and because it would be wrong to draw attention to the vaping industry if said person defends the self from a real attacker, that is so morbidly wrong it makes my hair stand on end.

I see what you're saying. However, there's a right way and wrong way to go about it in my opinion. You can defend yourself politely, or you can be NO better than the jerkface him/herself and stoop to their level by getting super angry, causing a scene, etc. No, I don't think I'd go "I'm sorry" to someone like said in another post, but I think retaliating in a mean, unbecoming matter is unnecessary. That person isn't defending themselves at that point, but rather just being equally obnoxious.
 

Uma

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off topic

I managed an old theater years ago
found a great really old leader with the marching concessions on it behind the screen -
put it on before "Dirty Dancing" (yes - that long ago) when my new concession leader went to heck - retro movie, why not a retro leader
concession sales doubled for the next 3 weeks -
district manager came in, saw it, asked me where I got it, freaked out when I told him,
put it on the hand crank frame by frame,
72 subliminal images in 1 minute of film
Attempted to make one that would make all woman think I was sexy - (joke)
concession sales dropped to zero - (joke)

also found about 500 original Snow White posters in mint condition - Oh, how I wish we had Ebay back then
And people label us tinfoil hatters. Ha!!
Snow White!! Oy! If only you knew then what you know now eh. Same here. Hubby and I took in every new movie that came out. The owner would save what posters he could for us, thinking we were nuts. We were just fans then, had no clue about the future collectors sweep. I wish we would have safely tucked them away instead of thrum tacking and scotch taping them to our doors and walls lol. Oh to be young again though, I'd probably do it all over again.
Since the smoking bans, we take in maybe one theater movie a year. :(
 

tA71ana

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Well, I've read this far... Haven't learned all that much... The problem is that we all forget, and the thought came to mind... (quoted below)

All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten

Robert L. Fulghum. All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten. Ballantine Books, 2003 (1986, 1988) ISBN: 034546639-X, pp.1-3.

Taken from the excerpt at Amazon.com; book details are here.


Credo

Each spring, for many years, I have set myself the task of writing a personal statement of belief: a Credo. When I was younger, the statement ran for many pages, trying to cover every base, with no loose ends. It sounded like a Supreme Court brief, as if words could resolve all conflicts about the meaning of existence.

The Credo has grown shorter in recent years - sometimes cynical, sometimes comical, and sometimes bland - but I keep working at it. Recently I set out to get the statement of personal belief down to one page in simple terms, fully understanding the naïve idealism that implied.

The inspiration for brevity came to me at a gasoline station. I managed to fill my old car's tank with super deluxe high-octane go-juice. My old hoopy couldn't handle it and got the willies - kept sputtering out at intersections and belching going downhill. I understood. My mind and my spirit get like that from time to time. Too much high-content information, and I get the existential willies. I keep sputtering out at intersections where life choices must be made and I either know too much or not enough. The examined life is no picnic.

I realized then that I already know most of what's necessary to live a meaningful life - that it isn't all that complicated. I know it. And have known it for a long, long time. Living it - well that's another matter, yes? Here's my Credo:

All I really need to know about how to live and what to do and how to be I learned in kindergarten. Wisdom was not at the top of the graduate-school mountain, but there in the sandpile at Sunday School. These are the things I learned:

Share everything.

Play fair.

Don't hit people.

Put things back where you found them.

Clean up your own mess.

Don't take things that aren't yours.

Say you're sorry when you hurt somebody.

Wash your hands before you eat.

Flush.

Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you.

Live a balanced life - learn some and think some and draw and paint and sing and dance and play and work every day some.

Take a nap every afternoon.

When you go out into the world, watch out for traffic, hold hands, and stick together.

Wonder. Remember the little seed in the Styrofoam cup: The roots go down and the plant goes up and nobody really knows how or why, but we are all like that.

Goldfish and hamsters and white mice and even the little seed in the Styrofoam cup - they all die. So do we.

And then remember the ....-and-Jane books and the first word you learned - the biggest word of all - LOOK.

Everything you need to know is in there somewhere. The Golden Rule and love and basic sanitation. Ecology and politics and equality and sane living.

Take any one of those items and extrapolate it into sophisticated adult terms and apply it to your family life or your work or your government or your world and it holds true and clear and firm. Think what a better world it would be if we all - the whole world - had cookies and milk about three o'clock every afternoon and then lay down with our blankies for a nap. Or if all governments had as a basic policy to always put things back where they found them and to clean up their own mess.

And it is still true, no matter how old you are - when you go out into the world, it is best to hold hands and stick together.


Copyright: Robert L. Fulghum

Yes :thumbs: These rules work out really well as long as "the other guy/gal" follows them.
 

Uma

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B1sh0p

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Re: the term ANTZ. I'm not a fan. It's a little dramatic, isn't it? Anti-vaping is borne out of ignorance. If it's as harmless as we believe, science will prove it and these hot button issues will take care of themselves.

Unfortunately, we're going to be taxed due to nicotine's association with tobacco. I just don't see any way around it.

I'm generally not a fan of allying myself with any group and creating an "us vs them" dynamic. I'm no crusader.

This is pretty far off topic, but this thread has already devolved into one about bullying, misogyny and other unrelated topics.
 

patkin

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I just got back from the local flea market, where while I was standing at one of the vape booths there I became aware of a tall older man watching me with my vape from the next booth over. Just as I was exhaling he strode quickly up on me, went into a fake coughing fit and angrily said "Don't blow that **** in MY face!"

Wow... just... wow...

I've run into a lot of that attitude over the last couple months just around town here, and in places where vaping is allowed too. It would seem that the anti-smoking zealots have a whole new group to hate and harass now, and they are coming after us with great zeal. There's been just too much of it to write about in one post here.

I read an online news story about how America is in a crisis of anger. Yeah, no kidding! I see it all the time, and some will do anything just for something to get all over the next person about. If they have to make up a reason they will.

It's getting so I'm afraid to vape in public anymore...

Just bringing it back in context. The OP did not include what she did but did describe very well what she felt. Many posting, myself included, were showing her support after a rather traumatic experience. My own post was not being "flip"... trust me... its is exactly what I would have done. I'm done being pushed around and treated like a low life. I suppose, as some have implied, I should accept and even expect to be treated as such whether because I was vapiing or at a flea market. (My God, will the prejudicial judgements never end?) The "TALL OLDER MAN"... all said to show a perceived imbalance of power... was, in fact, disturbing the peace.. his own with his inner mental condition and hers with his mouth in her face. He intended to both intimidate and create a scene. He had been "watching" her from a distance. I would venture to say she was either unaccompanied by a man or he had stepped away. I will go further than my previous post. Had it not happened to me directly but to her in my presence, I would have moved to her side and if my look didn't tell him to back off and or he wasn't smart enough to do the right thing for himself and others, my previous post said what he would have heard. Times have changed but people haven't. I was no different as a kid hearing racial epithest. I spoke up then. Some people remained silent when they didn't like hearing them. Some didn't and that's part of the reason you don't hear them so much anymore. And the thinking of those who used them publicly wasn't much different this guy's regarding vapers. The sound of silence is LOUD and supportive. Trust me, the racial situation was much more explosive than what's being seen today. Some spoke up while others, for varying reasons, remained silent.
If that defines a "crusader"... well, so be it... I don't see it that way and if it happened at a flea market or in a restaurant at the Hilton, I would act according to my conscience... period.
 
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Fulgurant

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Re: the term ANTZ. I'm not a fan. It's a little dramatic, isn't it? Anti-vaping is borne out of ignorance. If it's as harmless as we believe, science will prove it and these hot button issues will take care of themselves.

Anti-vaping is borne out of willful ignorance, on the part of the public-health industry, which is then filtered down to the public, in the form of well-intentioned ignorance -- in most cases, anyway. In the case of common busybodies like the man described in the OP, we can reasonably guess that they will always find an excuse to vent their frustrations on others; vaping's just the excuse du jour.

As for ANTZ, I can see why you'd dislike the term. It's an accurate term, because there really is a large segment of the public health industry that is built for total war against tobacco; the public health industry would marginalize itself if it conceded that the best way forward is harm reduction rather than prohibitionism -- but our throwing the ANTZ term around tends to give the opposition (or skeptical third parties) an excuse to dismiss us as zealots ourselves.

Unfortunately, we're going to be taxed due to nicotine's association with tobacco. I just don't see any way around it.

That is most likely true. Doesn't make it right, though, and although taxation may be inevitable, if we resign ourselves too easily to targeted regulation/legislation of any kind, then we may open ourselves up to a whole host of other unpleasant things. Witness the growing list of outrageous restrictions on smokers.

I think one of the main problems with this whole debate is that a lot of people understandably forget that widespread smoking bans are only about 10 years old, and therefore it's easy for them to forget that the nature and scope of those bans is still changing. Drastically.

You might be ok with a blanket ban in restaurants, for example. That's old hat, after all. But when I read about businesses denying employment to anyone who tests positive for nicotine, or nutjob city councilmen in California proposing smoking bans in single-family homes, I get depressed. And then I get very very angry. Your mileage may vary.

Just keep in mind that the same people behind the tyrannical ideology that putatively justifies those cigarette bans are in the process of demonizing e-cigs. Their efforts aren't subtle, which ironically is perhaps their best defense: their propaganda effort is so brazen, so far-reaching, that anyone who gives a straightforward account of it is likely to come off as a conspiracy theorist. But what we're describing isn't a conspiracy; it's a confluence of financial interest, institutional inertia, and yes, arrogant disregard for individual rights or health.

And it isn't gonna stop with e-cigs, by the way. Any behavior or indulgence that isn't necessary is fair game to these people. They'll churn out studies and arguments to allow them to recommend all sorts of insane restrictions on daily life, because at the end of the day, the ability of a low-income person to enjoy a soda or a candy bar is less important than joe-public-health's ability to justify his salary. Don't take my word for it, though; just ask Boyd Swinburn of the World Health Organization: https://twitter.com/BoydSwinburn/statuses/382262609200041984

I'm sorry for the novella here, but I can't express to you how desperately important it is to oppose reasoning like that.

I'm generally not a fan of allying myself with any group and creating an "us vs them" dynamic. I'm no crusader.

I'm not either. Unfortunately, the 'them' ain't gonna go away just because we wish it.
 
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