Things I learned on Twitter... Kids, Parents and Anti-Vaping.

[Jman8]

My main point is not restricting age wise but off of maturity. If a responsible kid who was trying to quit smoking was vaping would be different then a kid trying to be cool and with irresponsible parents that inhibit the behavior. Their are people of legal age who do this as well which is why maturity is more important then age.

And that kinda boggles my mind. That a kid must be a smoker for it to be okay to vape.

I've often said on ECF that all a newbie (who never smoked) has to do to get lavished with offers of help, is claim they are trying to quit smoking. Then, members will bend over backwards to offer assistance. But, if they never smoked and want our help, the numbers of us who would respond goes way down.

I long for the day when the ex-smokers who are into vaping are no longer the majority of vapers.

 

[e-pipeman]

But I'm wondering about the (honest) reasoning that went into that starting.

Why do you think that everything is about reasoning? I started smoking - a tobacco pipe. Definitely not into it to be "cool". Curiosity got me started, pure and simple.

As for your point - "that response actually is a reminder of why no one ought to vape" - well, that's simply a complete distortion of what I said. Sorry that you feel that you have to do that.

 

[Equilibrium]

And that kinda boggles my mind. That a kid must be a smoker for it to be okay to vape.

I've often said on ECF that all a newbie (who never smoked) has to do to get lavished with offers of help, is claim they are trying to quit smoking. Then, members will bend over backwards to offer assistance. But, if they never smoked and want our help, the numbers of us who would respond goes way down.

I long for the day when the ex-smokers who are into vaping are no longer the majority of vapers.

I can't imagine why you would make that last statement? That kinda boggles my mind.

 

[Jman8]

I started smoking - a tobacco pipe. Definitely not into it to be "cool". Curiosity got me started, pure and simple.

It is pure and simple and is good reason why I can see kids wanting to vape. Curious if it will be as cool and fun as it looks like it is.

As for your point - "that response actually is a reminder of why no one ought to vape" - well, that's simply a complete distortion of what I said. Sorry that you feel that you have to do that.

How is it a distortion? You said, "we don't know yet whether even vaping zero-nic is entirely safe." Doesn't this apply to everyone?

 

[Jman8]

I can't imagine why you would make that last statement? That kinda boggles my mind.

Because ex-smokers have a bit of a stranglehold on who is okay for vaping and who is not. I would think the non-smoking vapers among us don't have that same issue.

 

[e-pipeman]

It is pure and simple and is good reason why I can see kids wanting to vape. Curious if it will be as cool and fun as it looks like it is.



How is it a distortion? You said, "we don't know yet whether even vaping zero-nic is entirely safe." Doesn't this apply to everyone?

You constantly selectively quote in order to distort my point. Given that this is so I see no point in discussing this with you further.

 

[amolson]

we don't sell non alcoholic beer to children

Um, actually we do. Bought it all the time and there is no legal bar on the practice. There is also non-alcoholic cider and wine. It's a leftover from prohibition and there are no age restrictions on anything either flavored like alcohol or having an alcohol content under 0.5%. Not to mention the existence of drinks like the Shirley Temple or the Virgin Mary.

We actually encourage children in some extremely risky behaviors, such as handling livestock. The number two most lethal hobby is horseback riding yet we encourage the practice with groups like 4-H and FFA. If we lie, and say vaping is more dangerous than xxx (handling a horse, driving a car, riding a dirt bike) common practices, it's obvious to them. Then when you say, don't do yyy (drive drunk, wave a loaded gun around, explore dead mine shafts alone) they're not going to believe you. There used to be an old story about the little boy who cried wolf. After a while, if you call everything a wolf, then they're going to get chomped when the real thing comes along.

That is if the gub'mint doesn't just decide we're all permanent children and bans all 'risky' practices and hobbies.

 

[RosaJ]

When my oldest son was a teenager and I would tell him "I don't want you to..." he would reply "How does it feel to want or not want..."

He's now 47 and he turned out a great man, husband, father and son.

 

[Anjaffm]

As vaping community on the whole supports bans to children, due to health concerns, I don't think it is huge leap to support curtailing all adult usage, due to same health concerns.

Now now. Not so fast please.

There are things for underage persons and there are things for adults.
Whisky comes to mind. Alcohol in general.
And - for an easy example - coffee comes to mind.

There are activities for underage persons and there are activities for adults.
Certain.. uhm.. activities come to mind, done with two participants. And certain... uhm... movies displaying such activities.
Mountain climbing, parachuting. Or simple things such as driving a car (in my home country, you can get a drivers license at 18.)

There are things and activities for underage persons and there are things and activities for adults.
It has always been this way. This is the way it is, and this is the way it should be.

My generation was raised to know this fact. Once you grow up, you can drink whiskey and drive a car (not necessarily in that order ). When you are 13 years old, you cannot. You just have to wait until you grow up. Period. Because those are things for adults.

The issue is that nowadays, there are attempts to ban / prohibit / censor things for adults to allegedly "protect the chiiildren". Children have no business doing things for adults in the first place. Period.

It is in nobody's interest to promote adult activities for children. And it is not very intelligent either.

But, if they never smoked and want our help, the numbers of us who would respond goes way down.

You have been active in vaping subjects for long enough to know that this is politically motivated.
And you know precisely that ... uhm.. other people read in vaping forums too, in order to gather "ammunition". As long as the opponents are shooting at us with machine guns, it is not a good idea to provide them with ammunition.

(For any kind of activity - be it pet keeping, vaping, whatever - there is always a difference between what you do in private and what you state publicly in a forum, to a large audience of people whom you do not know. )

 

[Equilibrium]

What she said!!

 

[wv2win]

The internet is a fabulous place isn't it?

Some people just can't be helped, that's why I say this hobby NEEDS regulation. There are just too many people out there that really shouldn't be allowed to vape much less have kids, but what can you do?

So ironic that you have a banner that states "A Nation of Sheep Breeds a Government of Wolves" yet you advocate more government regulation for non-harmful activities because certain people don't meet YOUR definition of what is acceptable. Hypocracy is still alive and well in this country.

 

[Asbestos4004]

We claim "risk reduction "....not risk free. People under 18 shouldn't vape. Where did that line go that use to be between "thought provoking" and "downright annoying ?"

 

[wv2win]

.............................

2. Teens who vape have got to be the most obnoxious, idiotic human beings to exist on the planet.

3. Parents who support their kids vaping are twice as idiotic as the idiotic, obnoxious teens........................

Is it possible that a certain percentage of teens are already addicted to smoking? Are these teens idiotic when they are vaping to escape from smoking, you know, sort-of like a 19, 21, 35, 65, etc adult? Are the parents who support these teens efforts to try and break the smoking habit really different than the parent who helps their 21 year old break free of smoking? The old adage about "judging a book by it's cover" may apply in some of these circumstances.

I do NOT support teens vaping as a fad or anyone encouraging it for that reason, which I suspect is your concern. Every vendor I am aware of, maintains a self imposed "non-sale to minors" policy. I also believe that anyone who supports government regulation of non-harmful activities because of the immature actions of a small sub-set of society, are ignorant fools.

 

[wv2win]

We claim "risk reduction "....not risk free. People under 18 shouldn't vape.................

In general I agree with you. But I also believe there are exceptions to the under 18 thinking as I outlined in the post above.

 

[Asbestos4004]

^^^ agree 100% . I hope vaping REMAINS predominantly ex smokers.

 

[Jman8]

Now now. Not so fast please.

There are things for underage persons and there are things for adults.
Whisky comes to mind. Alcohol in general.
And - for an easy example - coffee comes to mind.

There are activities for underage persons and there are activities for adults.
Certain.. uhm.. activities come to mind, done with two participants. And certain... uhm... movies displaying such activities.
Mountain climbing, parachuting. Or simple things such as driving a car (in my home country, you can get a drivers license at 18.)

There are things and activities for underage persons and there are things and activities for adults.
It has always been this way. This is the way it is, and this is the way it should be.

My generation was raised to know this fact. Once you grow up, you can drink whiskey and drive a car (not necessarily in that order ). When you are 13 years old, you cannot. You just have to wait until you grow up. Period. Because those are things for adults.

Everything you named, I did under 18. Many people I knew then also did those things when under 18. You may as well have added smoking to that list, and then I could note that a lot of us were doing that when we were under 18.

There are no activities that are inherently for adults that persons under 18 cannot do. You seem to be suggesting otherwise, but I feel there is a mountain of evidence to support my claim. I highly disagree with notion of "this is the way it should be" and glad that our shared reality counters what you are saying.

The issue is that nowadays, there are attempts to ban / prohibit / censor things for adults to allegedly "protect the chiiildren". Children have no business doing things for adults in the first place. Period.

I obviously disagree with the last point, and feel the ban / prohibit / censor is the result of those who fall for the idea that 'certain things are for adults and not for children.' If a human is doing something that they claim to enjoy, are able to look good while doing it, plus get ahead in this world, then I would think another human around age 12 and up will have keen interest in at least trying that. Especially if told, "you cannot." May just as well say, "I double dog dare you."

It is in nobody's interest to promote adult activities for children. And it is not very intelligent either.

"Do as I say, not as I do." How's that working out for humanity?

You have been active in vaping subjects for long enough to know that this is politically motivated.
And you know precisely that ... uhm.. other people read in vaping forums too, in order to gather "ammunition". As long as the opponents are shooting at us with machine guns, it is not a good idea to provide them with ammunition.

I fully realize the so called politically correct way to proceed on this matter. But wish to be abundantly clear that if you are in bed with people that choose to ban things from kids, then you need to sleep in that same bed when they look at you as 'just another subordinate that needs to be put in their proper place.'

 

[Asbestos4004]

So, buy your toddler a bottle of booze, a pistol, a Porsche, an issue of Hustler and a Vamo.....let us know how it goes.

 

[Jman8]

No, I'll just keep those things around the house and make it a point every chance I get to say, "these things are not for you and you should never ever use them." And then I'll use them, and treat 'em like it's totally enjoyable and helpful for me, and then remain ignorant of all the sneaking around my child seems to be doing.

 

[jco514]

I have an issue with number 2. I'm 19 years old. Started vaping when I was 18 and I'm extremely respectful with my vaping. Just because I sub-ohm around 3.2 + does not mean I am idiotic. I don't vape in stores and I most certainly don't blow a cloud in a crowd of people. I'll agree with you that majority of teenagers just want to be obnoxious and blow clouds, but with every majority comes a minority and I am part of the minority of teenagers that vapes respectfully.

Edit: I forgot to mention that I started smoking when I was 15. I've been cig free for almost a year now.

 

[Asbestos4004]

Try as he might, mine can't sneak anywhere. He's 6'6", 275 lbs and an outstanding left tackle. At 16, there's been no drinking, no drugs, no tobacco....nothing but an unbridled passion for football. He still respects and obeys his parents, too. Go figure.