What IS their problem????

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B1sh0p

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I don't believe it's willful ignorance that motivates the average person regarding vaping, IMO, it's skepticism. People have been conditioned to believe that inhaling any chemical is harmful. Until more substantial long term studies are done, I understand their skepticism. I make a choice to take a reasonable risk by vaping. Personally, I take offense to anyone blowing anything in my face, whether it be vapor, smoke or their breath.


Obviously there are groups that that have a financial interest in banning vaping. However, I refuse to lump every anti-vaping entity into 1 group. I was taught that type of stereotyping was ignorant when I was 2. I'm no crusader. I'm no zealot.
 

Fulgurant

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I don't believe it's willful ignorance that motivates the average person regarding vaping, IMO, it's skepticism.

Right, which is why I said that the ignorance is well-intentioned by the time it filters down to the general public. The guy described in the OP is a bit of a special case because (at least if we take the OP's account at face value) he's just anti-anything-that's-convenient. I don't believe for a second that people like that seriously care about vaping, per se. They're looking for an excuse to assert moral superiority.

As it happens, though, that personality type serves the ANTZ agenda.
 

B1sh0p

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Right, which is why I said that the ignorance is well-intentioned by the time it filters down to the general public. The guy described in the OP is a bit of a special case because (at least if we take the OP's account at face value) he's just anti-anything-that's-convenient. I don't believe for a second that people like that seriously care about vaping, per se. They're looking for an excuse to assert moral superiority.

As it happens, though, that personality type serves the ANTZ agenda.

So the guy is just an ......? I can get behind that.

Using the term "zealot" to describe an anti-vaping agenda just makes my skin crawl, tbh.
 

Ipster

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Lets face it folks...there are AssH---s out there!
Most of it is 1)ignorance. That's not the insult, just don't know what we are doing. If I'm up for it, I'll assertively correct the paradigm, telling them about vape. Sometimes it works, not always. There's also prejudice and stupidity.
2) some folks in my area are really blowing it for we vaporers!, I live in a medicinal (STUFF) state. although they're not supposed to smoke "medicine" in public indoor spaces, I see more and more who are vaping their "medicine" just to see if they can get away with it!, It instantly
sets off tempers; since to date, my experience is the odor/aroma is quite pungent. I am NOT against their rights!, I'm not against their using a legal Rx medicine for ailments. its the "ego', "Tude", "in your face" problem that is going to jeopardize rights for vape.
I see it too often, now fear its a matter of time before the police want to "check" to see if someone is vape-eLiquid; or RxMJ.
I'm angry over all of it. Forgive the rant...I was always a "courteous" smoker. I never wanted to offend others right to clean air.
I try to be courteous w/vape. I do NOT want to see us lose our rights. I will take the temperature of the person complaining. If I think they're approachable, I'll apologize for any "confusion" they've had in thinking I was infringing on the air space. I'll then attempt to spell out the right to vape , advantages. politely.
its going to be an uphill battle.
try to persevere.
All the Best, Happy Holidays.
 
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Jman8

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IMO, it is fair to move the goal posts of this discussion back to why not vape in a hospital or on a college campus.

Now, if I leave the post with only that sentence, I could see how it would make for perception of zealotry. But I feel very prepared and rationale to hold that discussion without resorting to ad hom. If the discussion proceeds in direction of "we don't know long term effects" AND therefore must err on side of caution to not do it, then I truly honestly do not see it as ad hom to identify that logic as ANTZ. IMO, erring on the side of caution is rational vapers coming up with a way in which it is respectful to vape in that situation. Especially considering that current, short term scientific studies are undeniably in our favor. Thus, we kinda sorta do know or have at least some idea what vapor contains and how it would affect people if they inhale secondhand vapor.

Yet, as this thread's OP demonstrates, we have the people amongst us who have mind made up that exhaled vapor is on par with a pollutant. IMO, you have to deny all personal and anecdotal evidence/experience to reach into the territory of seeing exhaled vapor as a pollutant. Plus ignore scientific evidence. When I take all of that into consideration, it is actually mind blowing, or at very least, humorous that we live in a time where vapor is deemed that troublesome.

Here in the midwest, around this time of year, just about everyone you run into has vapor coming out of their mouth, and I think it took me until around age 3 to realize how fascinating it is that you can see other people's breath, while also realizing just how remotely harmless that is. It does have potential of leading to some sort of health issue, but is truly remote. The flip side of this is that as long as you live with other humans (i.e. in civilized society) chances are high you'll all be exchanging germs (or is it cooties?) pretty much all of the time. And at that level of consideration, we're all blowing stuff in each others faces all the time, though presumably with no interest in causing trouble for anyone around us. All I know is when I reread this paragraph to make sure it reads just how I want it, I'll be laughing at the idea that I felt compelled to spell this out, as if it needed to be spelled out.

It's the people that have their mind made up that secondhand vapor is 'something wrong is definitely occurring' that manifest the ANTZ position. And I don't think those people are necessarily a "them" group of people. I see it in us (vapers), and as one who's been of that mindset, I see it in me. I can actually empathize with ANTZ and appreciate that position, within reason. However, to completely disregard and downplay the counter position to 'secondhand vapor is a pollutant' is where I feel a reasonable line is being crossed. And as that just demonstrates overplaying your hand, I'm still going to feel prepared, rational and respectful in continuing the discussion, should mutual respect be what is truly being sought.
 

NGAHaze

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First of all, I think the OP totally misread the situation ...

I think the guy was hot for her! :) However, due to his severely stunted emotional growth, he was reduced to acting out in ways more commonly seen in adolescents, i.e., I like her so I'm gonna pick on her! Of course, once he realized he had actually spoken to a real live female, he hastily made his retreat! :D

Secondly, on a serious note, I'd just like to remind folks that joining CASAA is an easy way to lend your support to the cause that is clearly important to all of us. IMHO, a united front is our best and most likely our only real defense against an increasingly hostile environment for vapers.
 

Ipster

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Here in the midwest, around this time of year, just about everyone you run into has vapor coming out of their mouth, and I think it took me until around age 3 to realize how fascinating it is that you can see other people's breath, while also realizing just how remotely harmless that is. It does have potential of leading to some sort of health issue, but is truly remote. The flip side of this is that as long as you live with other humans (i.e. in civilized society) chances are high you'll all be exchanging germs (or is it cooties?) pretty much all of the time. And at that level of consideration, we're all blowing stuff in each others faces all the time, though presumably with no interest in causing trouble for anyone around us. All I know is when I reread this paragraph to make sure it reads just how I want it, I'll be laughing at the idea that I felt compelled to spell this out, as if it needed to be spelled out.

It's the people that have their mind made up that secondhand vapor is 'something wrong is definitely occurring' that manifest the ANTZ position. And I don't think those people are necessarily a "them" group of people. I see it in us (vapers), and as one who's been of that mindset, I see it in me. I can actually empathize with ANTZ and appreciate that position, within reason. However, to completely disregard and downplay the counter position to 'secondhand vapor is a pollutant' is where I feel a reasonable line is being crossed. And as that just demonstrates overplaying your hand, I'm still going to feel prepared, rational and respectful in continuing the discussion, should mutual respect be what is truly being sought.
Uh Oh.. this tickled me! last week I read the piece stating the students from Princeton University were deemed "safe" to go home for the holidays in spite of the meningitus outbreak on campus a couple weeks prior! LOL!..truthfully- the hype on the eastern seaboard was that the average student could "bring meningitus" home for the thanksgiving holiday! :D
Thanks Jman8 for the reminder - cold air temp/expelled C02.
 

Ipster

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classwife

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<unclick>

Whoa!!! Day-um, fourteen SS deletes and warnings??? Guess I need to move into da jungle and swing from da trees!!!

<reclick>


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Here's a little snack for your trip sugar !
 

34 Hour Reset

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I'm glad I have a backbone AND have the ability to be the calmer person in such situations. Yelling, being angry right back, and sarcastic retorts just serves to escalate the situation and I think we can all agree that in situations like that, almost nobody is going to be listening/learning and changing their minds on matters.

I was verbally attacked by a woman from across a Denny's at a truck stop once because she didn't like my political leanings (she was ease dropping on the conversations going on at the Driver's counter). I calmly listened to her point for a bit, attempted to reply civilly, and when that didn't work, I politely said that I needed to end the conversation because I wasn't comfortable with her level of anger. She later seeked me out in the store later and apologized. We ended up having an actual meaningful and respectful conversation. You're not going to get those types of conversations if you're actively escalating the drama.
 

Ardent

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I'm new to this forum and relatively new to vaping. I quit analogs on Aug 26th of this year after experiencing my first tank system based vape. I've been an avid pack-a-day smoker for the past 30 years and having tried everything, from patches, gums, hypnotherapy, acupuncture, etc., vaping was what finally allowed me to quit smoking.

I have observed many benefits to having quit analogs and therefore it is quite frustrating to me that I now find myself having to defend my vaping habit to would-be regulators. My take on the matter is that it is big business (pharmas & large analog manufacturers), in conjunction with their government thugs (FDA & other acronym agencies), that are responsible for creating an atmosphere of dissent toward vaping. What the OP encountered was but a manifestation of their tireless and insidious effort to use the anti-smoking crowd to do their dirty work for them. We can rise up against this misinformed section of the population and fight a good battle but we will accomplished nothing, IMO. I believe that we need to recognize their efforts at misdirection and to strike with considerable force, and in large numbers, at fronts that will hopefully cripple their overwhelming assault on us.

If we don't do anything I suspect that we will find ourselves among those who face severe oppression as mentioned by another poster in this thread. Being complacent is not a viable option as I see it. I could be wrong.

What, you might ask, can we do? While I don't have ready answers, perhaps we can look at other similar battles and figure out how we may respond. Perhaps, as a group we can put our heads together and consider various strategies and look to implementing those too.

A friend of mine sent me this link to a YouTube video. Perhaps we can consider similar action in our individual states?
NRA News Special Report From Ginny Simone: Colorado Recall: Power of Grassroots - YouTube

Here's the description from the YouTube page:
"They were told it would never happen. Ordinary citizens, fed up with being shut out of the legislative process, launched a grassroots recall campaign. It got the attention of first Colorado, then the nation. When the final votes were tallied, two state senators were out of a job ... and history was made."​

In the event that YouTube video gets pulled down, here's the link to the video on NRAnews.com
NRA News | Colorado Recall Success: Power of Grassroots
 

Myrany

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As always, lookin' out fer moi! Gawd, if ya only didn't have dat devoted chauffeur of yours...

Great to hear from ya, CW!

Oh yeah, back on topic... <un-re-click>
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Iffy you keep click clicking the channel either pass the remote over here or pass the popcorn one or the other.
 

Ardent

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