What is wrong with you?

[PeppermintPatty]

You say people aren't affected, but you use the case of restaurant above to make the counterpoint which works for every place you say it ought to be okay. I vaped in a busy restaurant recently. Bothered zero people. Produced no lingering clouds. Yet, a fellow vaper like you and many others like you take issue with this. Making statements that seem like there is no reasonable way to vape in a restaurant or other indoor place without it being deemed bothersome .

I know this was not in response to my post, but as I am also opposed to free and clear public vaping, and I would like the opportunity to point out my concerns. Your point is true here. You are not remotely incorrect. Likely you vaped in a public indoor spot, nobody probably even noticed. And if they did, likely it was a pleasant, subtle, smell. They may have even enjoyed it. I know my dad, who lives with me, enjoys just sniffing many of my flavors.

Now.....what if there were five of you? Ten of you? Twenty? Have you ever been to a vaper's lounge? Vape so thick at times you cannot see your hand in front of your face. I cannot personally spend time in a vaper's lounge, or any place with more than a few vapers. Why? My lungs react to the vapor. I can only mouth inhale because deeper lung inhales trigger my asthma. I have to be careful enjoying my vape, and going into vapor filled rooms causes me to wheeze.

Well of course not that many people vape, right? Twenty people in a public place vaping, how crazy am I? Not very, I hope. Like many of my fellow vapers, I want vaping to become more accepted. More mainstream. And I believe it will, I see it evolve every day in that direction. We need to consider the future, both for vapers and non vapers alike. We need to come off as responsible, considerate, individuals to be taken seriously. And that type of person does not encourage legislation or laws that could expose unwilling participants to inhaling vapor. Let's try to get this thing right from the get-go...let's not have a future filled with lawsuits and constant legislative changes because the vapor in public places is exacerbating the conditions of folks with obstructive pulmonary disease. Let us not have a future where individual places have to put up no-vaping signs because their customers are complaining....that is like bad press for all of us.

If we could count on everyone to be considerate vapers, and not overload public places with out hobby's by-product, that would be awesome, but we all know that is not likely to happen. We need to fight for our right to keep this legal and accessible, but we also need to show ourselves as considerate human beings who understand that though our product is waaaay less damaging than smoke, it is still inconsiderate to expose the public at large to it if they are not willing.

 

[Rictic]

You will if vaping indoors is deemed a huge issue.



The cause is bigger than what is bothersome to you. To not connect indoor bans with outdoor bans is between wishful thinking and plain old ignorance.

Is smoking anywhere (i.e. outdoors) considered very okay by all, while smoking indoors is deemed bad? I'd just note that regardless of where it is being done nowadays, smoking is considered rude everywhere, by vast majority. Hmmm, I wonder how we got to that sort of wide held belief?

What I don't get is how any vaper can actually see a problem with indoor vaping, AND then not be able to imagine how another person would have issue with outdoor vaping. You already know darn well it is relatively harmless indoors, so same would be true outdoors. Thus, just a matter of 'rudeness' which could easily apply to outdoors (or literally anywhere, including own residence in the middle of nowhere).

If vaping bans are BS, then indoor vaping bans are BS. The disconnect on this when willing to post your thoughts on a forum is not forgivable. I'm going to call your position out and have you think a little bit more than mere feelings.

Exorbitant taxes are going to happen because vaping will be deemed all around rude and sinful. Deserving of higher (sin) taxes. If you are a vaper who feels vaping in certain situations is rude/obnoxious, then thank YOU for being that which contributed to higher taxes on vaping.

Are these your opinions or facts?

 

[Mutescream]

The naivete in this thread astounds me. Then again, I'm not sure how many people in this thread are old enough and aware enough, or live in an area where the impact has been pronounced enough to have seen what happened with regard to taxes and the freedom to smoke over the last 20 years.

Minimum wage has doubled, the price of gas quadrupled and cigarettes are 5-10x as much as when I started (depending on where you live). You used to be able to smoke just about anywhere. Now there are places you can't even smoke outside, or even in your own car or apartment.

With equating vaping to smoking, we allow them to transfer all of that stigma directly, and it will happen here a whole lot faster. We allow them to take our money via taxes, which allows them to expand their tyranny, and weaken our position to defend against it.

Too many merely want to protect pet freedoms, whether gay marriage/firearms/vaping/etc. Liberty is NOT about being safe and comfy. It's about being free. Allowing them to force themselves into our existence by taxing us to fund regulations we don't want is no different in the long run (and arguably worse) than someone stealing your credit card to buy some stuff. Actually, it's really worse than that.

 

[six]

Let us not have a future where individual places have to put up no-vaping signs because their customers are complaining

Sorry. But, that is *exactly* what I want. I want the business owner to have the right to decide what it is they allow or don't allow on their own property. I don't want some busy body little fringe group deciding that business owner can't be allowed to decide for him or her self what is appropriate behavior in or around the business they own.

As to public spaces indoors and out: I own as much of it as the next guy does. When someone wants to impose limits on public activities and public behavior, there should be a burden on them to justify their idea of what is a "reasonable limit" to everyone. That is not what is happening regarding this topic or any other where limits and restrictions of personal behavior in public are concerned.

 

[pamdis]

With equating vaping to smoking, we allow them to transfer all of that stigma directly, and it will happen here a whole lot faster. We allow them to take our money via taxes, which allows them to expand their tyranny, and weaken our position to defend against it.

I was exploring the FDA user fee structure yesterday. They set an annual amount, 505 million for 2013, 534 million for 2014, goes up every year. Then every tobacco mfg has to report their sales and the total amount is prorated across all mfgs. When e-cigs are deemed tobacco products, they will most likely be added to this user fee structure. All before one penny of tax is even charged.

Talk about making us pay in order to stick it to us!

 

[patkin]

I've always seen it as a big joke to be honest. I've never wanted to be sitting next to someone blowing clouds while I'm in my favorite restaurant trying to enjoy a meal. I think back to my high school days when, yes it was technically illegal for me to smoke, but as long as I didn't blow smoke in anyone's face I always seemed to get away with it. There may be a similar concept here. I could be wrong, but how in the heck is anyone going to control what I do in my car, outside, in the bathroom, or anywhere people aren't affected by what I do? And why do people want to vape in public? I think its obnoxious. If you cant light a cig up, why would it be ok to hit your ecig?

I get your concern, and I have mine as well. I just think there are two sides to this, and may be it wouldn't be such a bad thing if we put some regulation on where people vape...

Thoughts?

Wow! I quit reading right here.... proves DC2's point! When you can't buy your favorite juice because online sales into your State are banned or only pre-filled cartos are sold for proprietary hardware manufacture by big tobacco; you can't afford the juice nor hardware even if you can get it due to heavy taxation at the local and federal level; they no longer allow the sale of your favorite setups because the manufacturer can't get approval from the FDA..... in other words, you can't get what you like/anything to vape with, WHERE you vape becomes moot. Count yourself, as DC2 said, getting what you deserve or learn about what's going on and get active. There are subforums here for both legislation and news... visit them, there's a daily action plan you can participate in posted here every weekday and on Facebook and, by all means, join CASAA to stay inform via email. And enjoy vaping while you still can.

 

[WattWick]

Edit: Nevermind.

 

[choochoogranny]

I use gift cards to buy on line. When the card gets down to an amount I can't use on line, I head over to CASAA and donate!

I recently wrote my first Letter to the Editor to my local paper in response to a negative editorial that in many places was factually incorrect. Was limited to 200 words, and I wanted to reach those who were ignorant about vaping and NOT necessarily the person who wrote the editorial. I waited a few days to calm down and figure out who I wanted to reach and to keep it simple and easy to read. It was my mailman, who never smoked or vaped in his life, delivering vape mail for signature who said he ENJOYED my letter on the editorial page that notified me that it had been published. I had missed it in the Sun. paper! Found it. Printed word for word what I wrote. Did have a different title. Hope you like it. Here it is.

"Kick the habit with e-cigarettes (Newspaper's heading)

For those of your who are uneducated about e-cigarettes and think there hasn't been enough testing done concerning the vapor inhaled and emitted, please go to CASAA.org and E-CigaretteForum.com and read. CASAA has a wealth of information, including the latest testing results and happy stories of people who've switched to vaping from smoking. For me, after 53 years of smoking, vaping has cleared up my lungs, elimiated my cough, lowered my blood presssure, given me more stamina, lowered my weight, improved my sense of smell and taste, gotten rid of sinus problems. I sleep longer and deeper and haven't had colds or flu since I started. I quit smoking in one day. If you are afraid because vapor looks like smoke, then your bubbling soup, steaming shower and whistling tea kettle should send you into a tizzy! Those vapors are much different than smoke coming from your fireplace, fire pit, barbecue or a cigarette. Please educate yourself about the political forces involved by tobacco, pharmaceutical, and health companies/organizations. They all stand to lose money if vaping becomes mainstream. Even states lose money from the tobacco settlement if smokers don't keep smoking!"

 

[wv2win]

To me the issue is not vaping in public. While I know this may not be a popular opinion, I do not feel anyone has the right to clog up my breathing space. Vapor or smoke, don't care. I do not disagree with bans in public places, I just don't. ..................

If you do not disagree with vaping bans in public places (thus supporting them either directly or indirectly), then you are either very naive or very foolish or possibly both.

When you support the curtailing of one persons legal activity, not because it is harming anyone but simply because some don't like the way it looks (NYC), then you are cutting away at the foundation of what it means to be part of a country based on liberty.

As has been pointed out numerous times in this and other threads, those aligned against vaping are fine with using the "step by step" process to eliminate vaping completely, if possible. By supporting these bans you are helping them reach their ultimate goal.

As many of us have advocated hundreds of times on this topic, vaping openly most places, but respectfully and with common sense, is the salient path that makes the most sense.

Because there are a minority of people in any sub-group who will play music too loud in public, talk on their cell phone when it can be annoying to others, wear so much perfume it will gag those near by or vape in a disrespectful manner, doesn't change the common sense of vaping openly but respectfully or provide support for any ban on vaping.

 

[skoony]

They are never going to be able to outlaw vaping, or vaping equipment like mods, batteries, atomizers, VG, PG, flavorings, etc

But .... I can promise you for sure that the government will be going after the very throat of liquid nicotine and any e-juice that contains it. And when it's all said and done, YOU will be paying a real BIG PREMIUM for anything that contains liquid nicotine.

You think cigarettes are expensive now ... just wait till you see what the price of nic juice will cost you in the future!

oh yes they can. Israel just did.
regards
mike

 

[Bolivar]

So you don't consider my donations to CASSAA, my phone calls, my attendance at council meetings, or my letters and emails to my representatives to be action? I NEED to vape a sub ohm cloud everywhere I go?

Quite the opposite. Your type of activism is exactly what is needed. It's the people with their head in the sand that wake up after it's too late to do anything that could have made a difference in the outcome. The problem is always how to wake them up before its too late.

 

[bluecat]

We need a cleaning in DC like the Augean stables.

 

[zanthious]

Yes, I am a little concerned with what might be the final outcome to the e-cig industry ... But I am just as worried about what the government is going to do with people (like myself) that own one of these:

Or one of these:

Basically, I am fighting two battles right now ... The E-cigs and the semi-auto guns!

im sure they will come after both and get a surprise. out of my dead cold hands. I am soo tired of this taking 30% of my paycheck and telling me what im allowed to buy with the rest....

 

[irwink]

I have been on this forum for nearly five years.
I have seen every topic discussed, and all arguments presented.

And I have come to a conclusion.

Too many of you don't understand the issues that confront us.
Too many of you are ignorant to who opposes us.
Too many of you don't care yet.

But you will care.

You'll care when they come to your state, your city, or your county.

I am coming to the conclusion that we will all get what we deserve.
Because we ALWAYS get what we deserve.

Make sure you are ready to deserve something better.
And be ready to fight for it.

It you don't fight, you will not only be screwing me, you will be screwing yourself.

Listen to this if you really care enough to care...
https://soundcloud.com/vp-live/lawsuit-filed-lets-talk-to?in=vp-live/sets/the-click-bang-archives

The freedom to use ecigs without oppressive regulation and punishing taxes has finally gotten some people's attention. There are other such issues but people tend not to get too excited until injustice effects them.

I'm convinced that most Americans are too lazy, ignorant, comfortable and complacent to do anything effective in getting back control of a government that used to belong to we the people. It's not a 'Democrats are evil' or 'Republicans are evil' issue. The entire system has been corrupted and is for sale to the highest bidders. Government should serve and fear the people, not the opposite.

 

[want to quit]

Here is my point of view from a German perspective living in the USA for 8 years now.

I don't want to offend anyone but it's just my view.

A. Like everywhere else it's extremely obvious here that big corporations will bribe and bribe and bribe some more until they get what they want meaning ban of ecigs which is a disgusting thought.

We don't need to argue that millions die yearly from cigs and millions suffer from illnesses thanks to cigs yet ecigs as a healthier alternative get banned? Big T has their hands in this so far up their butts it's sad.

B. Guns are poison. Comparing the US data with basically every other developed country is freighting. No other country has more death by guns, or school shootings, or shootings in general like the USA.

And just like ecigs bribes bribes bribes. Not even when babies and 5 year olds get slaughtered in school this country is able to ban guns. America will never be able to change thanks to the intolerance of people, amendments that everyone fears to change, and big corporations having heir dirty hands in everything.

That's what upsets me. I love this country with all my heart and the people but the facts on hand show me we will never develop if we cannot change.

Let's focus on DC topic on ecigs didn't even want to get into guns here sorry.

 

[Spacedancer]

Vapers gotta fight on a global level.

We have a common enemy regardless of where we live.

 

[rexy]

How much do you spend in a month on vaping? It would be hard for me to believe that every active member on ECF could not spare $1 a month or $12 a year to give to CASAA. I believe there are about 7000 active ECF members. At $12 a year that would come to $84,000. CASAA would be overjoyed with that level of support which would be about a 500% increase over their current support.

Good point. I just donated for the first time. I hope more members will, too.

 

[cope]

a armed person is a citizen a unarmed person is a subject.
arm youself with the knowledge you need...and by all means anything else..

 

[six]

Here is my point of view from a German perspective living in the USA for 8 years now.

I don't want to offend anyone but it's just my view.

A. Like everywhere else it's extremely obvious here that big corporations will bribe and bribe and bribe some more until they get what they want meaning ban of ecigs which is a disgusting thought.

We don't need to argue that millions die yearly from cigs and millions suffer from illnesses thanks to cigs yet ecigs as a healthier alternative get banned? Big T has their hands in this so far up their butts it's sad.

B. Guns are poison. Comparing the US data with basically every other developed country is freighting. No other country has more death by guns, or school shootings, or shootings in general like the USA.

And just like ecigs bribes bribes bribes. Not even when babies and 5 year olds get slaughtered in school this country is able to ban guns. America will never be able to change thanks to the intolerance of people, amendments that everyone fears to change, and big corporations having heir dirty hands in everything.

That's what upsets me. I love this country with all my heart and the people but the facts on hand show me we will never develop if we cannot change.

Let's focus on DC topic on ecigs didn't even want to get into guns here sorry.

There is zero distance between liberty and tyranny. Either there is liberty or there is tyranny. It really is that simple. Take Germany as a good example and the guns that relate as well to vaping as free speech, free expression, property rights, and a whole host of other liberties. Germany was a well armed society up until it succumbed to and in fact embraced tyranny.

I personally will not abide tyrants here. Many, many, others feel the same way. That's why we have discussions just like this one. It seems to me that DC2 wanted to make a point and perhaps even open a few eyes or maybe change a mind or two because, in fact, many do not recognize their own liberties and therefore do not understand threats to them. I agree with DC2 that this is the first thing that needs to change. Eyes need to be opened. ---- Regardless of similarities or dissimilarities between threats against our other liberties, the fact is this particular liberty (vaping) is under attack. Knowing by whom and what their motives are is absolutely necessary if there is any hope of either changing their behavior or reducing their influence.

 

[AgentAnia]

They are never going to be able to outlaw vaping, or vaping equipment like mods, batteries, atomizers, VG, PG, flavorings, etc....

Check out the EU Legislation forum for info on the current Tobacco Products Directive, which would prohibit all tanks over (if memory serves) 2ml and all e-liquid "containers" that are not leakproof, etc.

By chipping away at what devices and e-liquids are available, where/how they can be purchased, where they can be used, and how much they'll cost, they can indeed de facto "outlaw" vaping, not by outright prohibition but by making effective vaping impossible.

I am only one person and can only do so much, and I do. But add my efforts to thousands, tens or hundreds of thousands, even millions, like me, and our voices will be heard. But only if we all speak up.