What thw Doctor told my Father In Law about Ecigs!!!!!!!

[TxMagic]

Agree with gift PV to FIL now. OP's DW could give it to him with two sentence statement about being around for grandchildren, graduations, weddings, aging mother, etc. and change subject. Pick a juice flavor he won't be able to resist. There's always cartos, juices, cases, skins, lots of choices for holiday gift . . . think of all the things we buy!

Doubt there's ulterior motive on part of doctor. He's probably FIL's age or older - not intentionally ignorant - just uninformed, skeptical and overwhelmed by all the new technologies. He'll be proved wrong when he see's FIL's improved health at next visit. Educating the world one person at a time!

 

[DocWyatt]

Ohh and why she was on them? She took a surgery that was likely not needed and she almost died. People need to understand that surgeons are basically on commission. Many would cut any part out of you - if you let them.

But none of that is relevant. I get that people tend to view things based on their experiences - regardless of logic. However, that was my thought before that. The drugs make no sense. They solve nothing while getting you addicted. Yet they are not only approved as safe - they are encouraged. Bad idea. Worse advice.

 

[Wilvin]

I agree I have read too many studies about anti depressants and there effects to never want to take them, another medication that is over the counter that I will not take is Tylenol if you knew some of the nasty things it can do and does to the body you would not take it either. LOL any way I think we are sort of getting sidetracked, or at least I am.

 

[netrunner1]

@WomanOfHeart

Here's an interesting article I stumbled on while looking up Chantix:
FDA Favors Chantix over E-Cigarettes. Why?

from link:

He notes that some anti-smoking groups are calling on the FDA to withdraw e-cigarettes from the market despite a lack of evidence suggesting they are harmful, yet the same groups do not advocate for the removal of Chantix, even though the drug tops the FDA’s list of most dangerous drugs.

This is the real issue, there's real money behind the pharmaceutical solution and nobody advocating e-cigs as an alternative. Politics and money will be stamping out this alternative shortly unless we all make our opinions known to our gov't representatives.

 

[DocWyatt]

Sidetracked on the issue of doctor's opinions of ecigs - yes. But it is exactly the same mindset, therefore the same. Their "knowledge" is based on drug studies done by corrupt organizations....for corrupt reasons. The answer to this is very simple. You do not need some stupid health bill that would bk the country. You simply remove the money trail between doctors and big pharma. That solves about 50% of the problem - immediately.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

I think MistressNomad is correct.....they practice at medicine......and they still haven't gotten it right. My dr wanted me to try Chandrix?? before I found vaping. I would not do it. Did not want deposits forever in my brain blocking my neurotransmitters. So for now, I just told her I wasn't smoking analogs anymore and she was impressed at how I had lost weight too. Those two usually don't go together....especially for us ladies. She never asked what or if I had substituted for anything else. Guess as long as I gave up smoking she didn't care. Suits me fine.
About the xmas gift for FIL.....give it to the guy now....by the time xmas gets here he will be feeling so much better.
my 2cents.
wv

 

[DocWyatt]

WV... I think Nomads point was more to the effect that it has little to do with "not getting it right". That is not the goal or intent. It just isn't. A big time doctor collects 100's of thousands - if not millions in kickbacks from big pharma. Big pharma is not doing this for ....s and grins. They are doing it to influence prescriptions. This is not complicated...

If you want to influence decisions you send money. Simple.

Let's keep this extraordinarily simple. If you were a CEO of a big pharma would you write checks for 100's of millions of dollars if it didn't influence prescription decisions regardless of best choice for health? No chance, obviously. That is exactly the only point of doing so.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Sidetracked on the issue of doctor's opinions of ecigs - yes. But it is exactly the same mindset, therefore the same. Their "knowledge" is based on drug studies done by corrupt organizations....for corrupt reasons. The answer to this is very simple. You do not need some stupid health bill that would bk the country. You simply remove the money trail between doctors and big pharma. That solves about 50% of the problem - immediately.

Let not forget or leave out the revenues that the gov gets for all of this too. It is just a BIG 'scratch my back and I'll scratch yours' type of system and when the peons(thats us) get out of line or find another better way....they will think they need to police us cause we don't know any better. Makes my stomach roll.

 

[netrunner1]

Let not forget or leave out the revenues that the gov gets for all of this too

Yep, if vaping ever catches on in any significant way you can be sure that there will be significant pressure to replace the lost tax revenue. Today the number of people that use PVs are insignificant, when was the last time you saw someone else vaping in public? I leave my Ego sitting out at work and no one has a clue what it is.

 

[DocWyatt]

This thread reminds me of the Johnny Cash song (don't say it wasn't his song - the original was horrible at best) - Hurt. While I understand that the song is about that drug which you inject that is blocked on this to name....., it could easily be an anti smoking anthem.

"What have I become, my sweetest friend. Everyone I know goes away- in the end". And " I will let you down - I will make you hurt".

Hmm, this is the story of any smoker.....

Then again, it could be because I am listening to it... ha. But I have long felt this should be the anti-smoking anthem.

 

[netrunner1]

Ahh, Johnny knew about addiction...Trent Reznor as well

 

[netrunner1]

Try - Smoking Cigarettes Will Kill You - Ben Lee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJAorQM7sL8

 

[DocWyatt]

Try - Smoking Cigarettes Will Kill You - Ben Lee

Too direct... everyone already knows the facts of it - yet we puff anyhow. Subtle...."go away in the end" and "make you hurt" better, IMO. Perfect anti-smoking anthem.

You have to remember us smokers are bullheaded - facts do not matter much.

 

[metasin]

I am very new to this forum and to vaping but I wanted to chime in a bit here. I am a clinical pharmacist by profession and have as my primary responsibility creating and implementing formularies for (gasp) insurance plans. In this capacity I interact daily with doctors, insurance companies and Pharma. (And yes, I am the guy that helps determine what will and will not be covered by your plan, yell at me now).

This place has been a great resource for me so I would be glad to contribute whatever I can. First the issue with nicotine, or any addiction really. Addiction is a very very complicated situation. There is no addiction that is purely physical or behavioral. Most are a combination of the two. I saw it mentioned that nicotine is out of the system fairly quickly and this may be true, however there is evidence that shows the faster you metabolized nicotine the more likely you are to become addicted. Nicotine changes the chemistry of the brain permanently! A scary thought and one that has major consequences. Since we mostly are all smokers or ex-smokers think of this, no other addiction maintains its tolerance for so long. This means that you can be "quit" for several years but if you go back you pick right up where you left off. I was a pack a day smoker and was quit for 2 years and once I started again I was right back at a pack a day, no other drug addiction is quite the same.

Now I can go on and on about the medical industry and Pharma but I could write all day about that.

In summary, the addiction to nicotine is bad because it makes you continue to expose yourself to the harmful chemicals in the delivery system. Many of those chemicals surprisingly are actually very weak carcinogens but you expose yourself to them over and over for years. Vaping is exponentially preferable to smoking at least in my humble opinion and I think there is logic if not evidence to back that up. Most doctors that frown upon vaping do so largely out of ignorance.

 

[Automaton]

Doc and WomanofHeart,

I'm really sorry to hear about your mother's experiences with Big Pharma's psych drugs. Just like their quit-smoking drugs, and many of their other drugs, here's another area where Big Pharma's want for money is costing lives.

I remember, in high school, going to the funeral of a 15-year-old boy who died of toxicity after being put on Lithium for a mental disorder. He was taking his prescribed dose, exactly as he had been told, and he died before he even had a chance to get his first blood test (they blood test you regularly on Lithium, to prevent this exact thing from happening).

We have always known how dangerous Lithium is. We have drugs on the market that are several degrees of magnitude less dangerous. But doctors keep prescribing it. One has to wonder why.

I've seen countless people turn zombie-fied, or feel even worse than they were before, on psych drugs. I have seen precious few get any better.

All of these drugs that seem to make people feel worse rather than better, Chantix which makes otherwise mentally healthy people suddenly want to kill themselves... If I was a little more paranoid, I'd be wondering if they were just trying to kill us. Especially considering the huge overlap in smokers and those with mental illness. People with mental illness make up 15% of the population, but 50% of cigarette sales.

Doc, you are absolutelty right. Kill the money trail from doctors back to Big Pharma, and half the problems disappear immediately. Kill the money trail between the FDA and big pharma, and there goes a big chunk of the other 50%.

 

[Petrodus]

The biggest problem with doctors providing unbiased opinions is the kickback system...

Reminds me of an old TV commercial
Click Here

 

[NurseCin]

Most doctors that frown upon vaping do so largely out of ignorance.

Yes!!! I totally agree! (yells at you because of your first paragraph)

 

[Automaton]

Just so you know, you should probably contact the mods RIGHT NOW and let them know you are a supplier. Otherwise you will probably be banned as soon as they see this post. They are very strict about suppliers disclosing that they are suppliers before posting.

Also, it would be a good idea for you to remove your mention of your company. You are not allowed to advertise your site in the New Members forum.

 

[DocWyatt]

Nicotine changes the chemistry of the brain permanently!

I wonder if this is true? I have never heard that before, but I am certainly not a medical expert...

If it is I guess we are all SOL... lol.

 

[Elendil]

FYI please do not quote posts from unregistered suppliers. Just report them. It makes twice the work since the post will be deleted anyway and then we have to go through and find the quoted posts and delete them as well.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation.