What we will be able to say about harms of tobacco cigarettes if they will be as new as ecigarettes?

[retired1]

A little research shows that the Indoor Environment Group at Berkley is directly tied to DoE. Until their methodology is made available and peer reviewed, I see nothing to get excited about.

And again, let's dial back the rhetoric.

 

[Tommy-Chi]

You're kidding, right? Here are your previous threads.

Study Finds More Chemical Causes For Concern In E-Cigarette Vapor

Is this still a harm reduction?

Is nicotine really as safe as e-cigarette supporters make out?

How much vaping is too much vaping?

Is there anybody who vape and have a cancer now or had a cancer in the past?

New study - cardiovascular disease risk

Do you vape? Don’t blow it through your nose

Is Vaping Really Healthier than Smoking?

A million times more harmful than outdoor air

What to say about "long-term health effects"?

Now, if I were a bettin' man, I'd say there was a serious agenda going on here and it's not all in the name of curiousity.

Prove me wrong. But if this type of behavior continues, do not be surprised if the staff begins to take action.

Excellent catch!!!

We have very very few places like ECF to discuss vaping. Enough is enough.

 

[VNeil]

A little research shows that the Indoor Environment Group at Berkley is directly tied to DoE. Until their methodology is made available and peer reviewed, I see nothing to get excited about.

And again, let's dial back the rhetoric.

If that was aimed at me I'm at a loss as to what you think I said "wrong"

 

[ravnhaus]

As a reminder: PLEASE READ! Breaking Links to Junk Science and Other Rubbish Posts

Sorry. I thought it was relevant to the thread. And yes it came from Yahoo News.

 

[Two_Bears]

Sorry. I thought it was relevant to the thread. And yes it came from Yahoo News.

That test is just as phony as the formaldehyde scare i DIY my ejuice. I know what's in there.

Usually 4 things in my case 3 because i am Nicotine free.

Flavor usually in a Carrier of PG more later.
Nicotine
PG this is used in ice cream, flavor extracts, dog safe antifreeze, and is tge Carrier for the medicine in asthma inhalers
VG used as a sweetener, hand lotion, soap production, Wine production

There are about 7000 chemicals in cigarettes.

Tobacco alkaloids
Poison to prevent suckers.
The tobacco is moistened eithba chemical to mot tear paper.
Cigarette papers have salt Peter (potassium nitrate) this keeps tge cigarette smoldering instead of going out
Tar.

A smoldering cigarette generated carbon monoxide,

And these ANTZ have the gall to say vaping is as dangerous as smoking

 

[VNeil]

@Jessica99 's In The News post today contained a link to an article demolishing that study, as usual. They once again dry burned CE4s and measured trace amounts of some chemicals well below standard threashholds... see the first article in the link.

In the News July 29th

 

[Two_Bears]

@Jessica99 's In The News post today contained a link to an article demolishing that study, as usual. They once again dry burned CE4s and measured trace amounts of some chemicals well below standard threashholds... see the first article in the link.

In the News July 29th

Thats hiw they found the formaldehyde too. Jacked up tge wattage till the coil was 1,100 degrees. Vapor at that temp would destroy your lungs. But tgevso called scientists think people are stupid and will fall for anything. I'm surprised the polycarbonate Tank didn't melt.

 

[VNeil]

Thats hiw they found the formaldehyde too. Jacked up tge wattage till the coil was 1,100 degrees. Vapor at that temp would destroy your lungs. But tgevso called scientists think people are stupid and will fall for anything. I'm surprised the polycarbonate Tank didn't melt.

All scripted out of 1984....

 

[Lessifer]

As per the OP, I'll take a stab at your thought experiment. For most users, after 5-10 years, there wouldn't be many signs of serious health issues. Some would develop persistent coughs, others would start to see issues related to heart rate elevation, and some would definitely see worsening of pre-existing conditions. However, there would be some that would develop more serious conditions at a faster rate, so there would likely be at least some detection of serious health problems. Not everything takes 20 years to develop.

 

[VNeil]

As per the OP, I'll take a stab at your thought experiment. For most users, after 5-10 years, there wouldn't be many signs of serious health issues. Some would develop persistent coughs, others would start to see issues related to heart rate elevation, and some would definitely see worsening of pre-existing conditions. However, there would be some that would develop more serious conditions at a faster rate, so there would likely be at least some detection of serious health problems. Not everything takes 20 years to develop.

In fact the first published research associating cigarettes with lung cancer was done by Germany in the 1930s. Supposedly no one believed them because it was published by the Nazis but more likely no one wanted to... it is inconceivable that that would happen today. There are so many vapers getting regular chest x-rays and spirometry tests that there is no chance of some silent epidemic. Modern testing would determine significant lung degradation (eta: of cig smokers or vapers) well within 10 years now. And I'm still waiting for those long term green bean studies

 

[Lessifer]

In fact the first published research associating cigarettes with lung cancer was done by Germany in the 1930s. Supposedly no one believed them because it was published by the Nazis but more likely no one wanted to... it is inconceivable that that would happen today. There are so many vapers getting regular chest x-rays and spirometry tests that there is no chance of some silent epidemic. Modern testing would determine significant lung degradation well within 10 years now. And I'm still waiting for those long term green bean studies

Right, the dangers of smoking have been apparent for a long time, but people have been smoking tobacco regularly for centuries.

I think it is highly unlikely there will be any significant long term health risks directly attributable to vaping. If the first cigarette was smoked today, I'm fairly certain we would at least know something wasn't right within the first 10 years.

Actually, with how the healthcare system works today, the short term effects would probably keep cigarettes from ever coming to market.

 

[VNeil]

Right, the dangers of smoking have been apparent for a long time, but people have been smoking tobacco regularly for centuries.

I think it is highly unlikely there will be any significant long term health risks directly attributable to vaping. If the first cigarette was smoked today, I'm fairly certain we would at least know something wasn't right within the first 10 years.

Actually, with how the healthcare system works today, the short term effects would probably keep cigarettes from ever coming to market.

I truly believe vaping will always be statistically safer than ANY food we eat. It is already virtually inarguable

 

[OlderNDirt]

Just my guess, but as soon as a "long time vaper" comes down with or dies from an unexpected illness, it will be declared as being due to vaping.

 

[VNeil]

Just my guess, but as soon as a "long time vaper" comes down with or dies from an unexpected illness, it will be declared as being due to vaping.

You're right and the fact that there are no poster child dead vapers shouts a message. There are countless tens of thousands of tobacco controllers searching desperately for that first body...

 

[Bunnykiller]

In the news today
http://www. dispatch. com/content/stories/national_world/2016/07/29/report-e-cigarette-vapor-releases-cancerous-chemicals.html

Report: E-cigarette vapor releases cancerous chemicals

only in California

 

[TheMike21]

Thankfully we have a lot more ways to predict what long term damage could be caused and Ecigs are comming out great.

What would be fun though is, if regular cigarettes where made available today for the first time, would they be legal? Would they be as much of a hit?

 

[VNeil]

Thankfully we have a lot more ways to predict what long term damage could be caused and Ecigs are comming out great.

What would be fun though is, if regular cigarettes where made available today for the first time, would they be legal? Would they be as much of a hit?

Probably because there would be no tobacco control industry. The world would be a very different and very better place.

 

[pennysmalls]

Until now evidence about e-cigarettes suggest that they are pretty much harmless.

What we could say about harms of tobacco cigarettes if they existed just 10 years?

If tobacco cigarettes had just been invented ten years ago and got compared to vaping in a lab/study, because you picked 10 years, the answer is obvious as to which one would be safer.

 

[VaporDaze]

Sometimes I wish the trolls would just stay under their bridge...

 

[mcclintock]

I think the results of long-term testing of smoking is that it is LESS dangerous than one would reasonably expect logically and intuitively. Pile up a year's worth of cigarettes in front of you, and think about inhaling all of it, would you even expect to make through a single year? Really long-term vaping might have some unexpected harm -- but I think anyone that's smoked a long time would be better off if even it was just a different form of harm, rather than continuing the same one.