What's the buzz?
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I don't know - I've met a lot of helpful people. Vendors included. Now lawyers, and investment banking, and insurance == THOSE industries are weird and shady.
It's advancing like CRAZY. New device developments every week? A shift from sticks to big boxes, from 10 watts to 300, from cartomizers to squonkers...most people complain that they can't keep up.
This is valid, but it will settle down, and there will be simple devices without a hobby element. Possibly the "pod" trend we're seeing (more rapid crazy development of new product).
Then again, I have a theory that ONE PART of what makes vaping a success in smoking cessation for MANY (not all) people IS the hobby element. We LIKE having new stuff to try, to figure out, to fiddle with - and in fact, keep doing so well beyond the point that we're happily not smoking...
It's not just replace the nic - it's finding something more SATISFYING, which includes an enjoyment of the gear/flavor experimentation. Again - for me, not saying that has to be true for everyone!
Shops are in a hard place - they're just trying to survive, when in fact, they won't.
It's a bunch of people who opened a store with a bad business model.
Unless they have a succesful juice line (which will be impossible under new regs) they'll fail.
So yeah - buy online.
Who's mishandling shipments? I've had ONE issue out of hundreds of packages (and that wasn't the vendor - thing looked like USPS ran it over with a truck. Every day for the 3 months it was missing).
Seriously?
Go back and read that article again. Maybe check who wrote it.
Formaldehyde happens when you take an Ego with a Clearomizer, and crank it up to max voltage, then suck the thing into an analyzer - continuing on past the "dry hit" because....well because "Bad Science". That's the test they ran when they documented Formaldehyde. Crazy high temp will do that.
No one is putting Formaldeyhde in the juice.
You must be looking in some weird places to find essential oils, too...
There's dozens of good juice makers...for now. Ask here and get a list if you want...
Who would you put in charge of "allowing an industry"???
People invent stuff. We either buy it, and recommend it, and buy more - or not, in which case they stop making it.
That's a legitimate market.
An illegitimate market would be one where some misinformed agency "deemed" what we might or might not want.
I don't think so.
I think vapers build their own stuff because it IS a young industry, with opportunity to keep inventing improvements. And as mentioned - tinkering and inventing is a good addition to the "hobby" side.
With juice, most people who make their own initially are motivated by the dramatic savings potential.
Juice is the one part of the industry where vendors have a really good markup - which is fine... There IS competition bringing it down, plus there's mix-your-own.
There are no "people who started this movement".
There were people who tried an e-cig to quit smoking. Then there were more of them.
Then they started chatting about how it was working for them - here, online.
WE are the people who started this...
LOL, cool! Me, too!
But really - you DON'T want a regulated industry -
Look at what the regulations are trying to yield even now:
No one in the business but a few huge (shady) corporations.
"Pods" with no refilling. Limited flavors (tobacco, menthol...maybe "berry," lol).
And, of course, an ongoing cost equivalent to or higher than cigarettes - THAT is the whole actual POINT of regulation, actually...to protect the nicotine revenue. It's got nothing to do with quality or safety or health.
What a well-thought-out, well-written reply. I couldn't agree with you more, and I can't "like" this enough!!! Good job.
Personally I think the vaping equipment and liquids and the price have never been better. I started on a dse 801 classic pen style and compared with what is available today is like night and Day. You've never had it so good.
We've come along way baby! I started in 2007 and I know we have evolved!
Not formaldehyde.
Acrolein - Wikipedia
Acrolein: Made by burning your vape... or your dinner.
Don't burn your vape.
Chemicals?
There's no data showing diketones, cinnemaldehyde, acetyl proprienol, diacetyl, etc. pose any serious or long term dangers to vapers either. Despite the implications and cases of serious health implications possibly attributed to diacetyl in an industrial, manufacturing setting.
We just don't reach that exposure level.
Poison is in the dosage.
There's just so much wrong here.
Tapatyped
Acrolein - Wikipedia
Acrolein: Made by burning your vape... or your dinner.
Don't burn your vape.
Chemicals?
There's no data showing diketones, cinnemaldehyde, acetyl proprienol, diacetyl, etc. pose any serious or long term dangers to vapers either. Despite the implications and cases of serious health implications possibly attributed to diacetyl in an industrial, manufacturing setting.
We just don't reach that exposure level.
Poison is in the dosage.
There's just so much wrong here.
Tapatyped
Now that the FDA has their nose in our business, there will be no new devices. Innovation will be and has been stopped. We can no longer invent better equipment as that will be new technology and the FDA forbids any without getting approval. We already know that they won't approve most of what is on the market now. If they do, it will be years before the approval makes it past their desk.
That is what forums are for, to weed out the unsavory. We've done a fantastic job of pretty much shutting down the ones that are dangerous. Believe me, word of mouth is pretty quick between the forums and Facebook. We do a damn fine job of policing ourselves. All it takes is a bit of research to avoid those that are shady.
As to the idiots: Nope. So far from the fact that it isn't even funny. Those "idiots" are responsible for the amazing products we have today. We've come a VERY long way in a VERY short period of time. Thank god we weren't regulated or this would Never have come this far.
It is the vapers that did think outside the box and invent a better system. We owe what we have now to those modders that saw that there might be a better way to vape. If it weren't for those vapers, we still would be stuck with things that we DID have to modify to get them to work.
It is vapers who did not like the Dekang liquids that were finding out what was in the ingredients and started experimenting for their own use. They found they could make better tasting liquids and that cottage industry grew to where we are now. We are not tied to only getting liquids from China.
Almost all the liquid industry are vapers first, and do use their own product. We have had unsavory vendors pop up now and then. Man....we do get the word out VERY quickly and they do not last.
Thanks to regulation, this is as good as it is going to get. There will be no more innovation. Things will not get better and we will be going backwards. Those that are new to vaping will be stuck with the things that didn't work. Those of us that have been around and have stocked up, we will continue to vape in the way that we found works for us.
it takes time to get things right.... it took over 125 years to get cars to where they are now..... ( and they still arent right, people still die using them)
Innovation will not stop. It will simply occur in markets that aren't being strangled like ours.
You don't need to become a hobbyist to benefit from the best smoking cessation method available, there are pod mods and ecigs that require very little effort or involvement on the user's part. The "tricky hobby" aspect of vaping can be reserved for those of us who don't mind putting forth a little effort in order to save 95% of the expense and get a better vape while we're at it.
Vaping is a relatively new industry and its technology -has- advanced considerably in the past seven years. As is the case with all market driven industries vaping manufacturers cater to customer's needs/desires. From POD mods to RBAs there are devices to suit every skill level/style of user. Unfortunately, future innovation will be slowing to a crawl thanks to government involvement/regulation.
Local B&Ms are like convenience stores and can be quite costly but you don't need to buy from them, I don't. I shop online and in four years of doing so haven't had a single shipment lost or damaged. That includes dozens of shipments from China. The quality of gear has never been a problem for me but then most of what I order was first discussed/reviewed here on ECF so I knew what I was getting. One of the many benefits of this forum and putting forth a little effort.
There isn't any formaldehyde in juice. Formaldehyde is created when certain elements in juice (and wick) are exposed to sustained temperatures in excess of 1000F, well beyond normal vaping parameters. Junk science is the only weapon available to the FDA and you'd be surprised how many universities and "independent" labs are willing to bench their ethics for funding, happens every day. Unfortunately, like fake news, junk science is an effective tool for shaping/manipulating public opinion when truth is counterproductive to achieving you goals. Your thoughts concerning the perceived threat of formaldehyde demonstrates just how effective fake news and junk science can be in shaping opinion. And what about the notion vaping is a stepping stone to smoking for teens? Problem is the governments own statistics show that with the rise of vaping (2009-2015) incidence of teen smoking fell over 50%, see how truth and facts can get in the way?
If our government represented "we the people" I might agree but the U.S. government is owned and operated by large corporate interests and that's who they represent. The government regulation you seek will do little more than hand the industry over to large corporations, drive consumer costs through the roof, limit selection and stifle innovation. Don't worry though you'll soon get to enjoy all the "benefits" of government involvement.
Vaping isn't going to be banned but the government regulation you seek will hand it over to big tobacco (and other large corporations) wait till you see how that's going to play out (Cha-Ching!). Since government regulation has deemed vaping to be a "tobacco product" you'll soon get to enjoy state tobacco taxes as well, a win-win for all who matter. But don't worry there will be lots of fake news referencing junk science convincing you it's all for the better.
The people who started this movement did so to quit smoking but likely have helped save many thousands of lives as a result of their efforts. People like me who make our own coils and juice do so for many reasons, cost, flavor, quality and as an insurance policy against the catastrophic effects of government regulation/taxation. I vape NETs and could spend as little as $100 a year for the next twenty years because I learned how to make my own and stockpiled liquid nic. The only entity that will profit from my vaping enjoyment is me but it took effort on my part to achieve this.
it takes time to get things right.... it took over 125 years to get cars to where they are now..... ( and they still arent right, people still die using them)
After spending most of my adult life in the automotive industry I have to agree.
Most cars are junk slapped together ro get your money.
Not formaldehyde.
Acrolein - Wikipedia
Acrolein: Made by burning your vape... or your dinner.
Don't burn your vape.
Chemicals?
There's no data showing diketones, cinnemaldehyde, acetyl proprienol, diacetyl, etc. pose any serious or long term dangers to vapers either. Despite the implications and cases of serious health implications possibly attributed to diacetyl in an industrial, manufacturing setting.
We just don't reach that exposure level.
Poison is in the dosage.
There's just so much wrong here.
Tapatyped
Of course there is no "long term data" at this point but there will be at some point & only then will we be able to know with certainty what if any serious health consequences can be contributed to vaping .
The fact remains EVERY juice from all these companies can have widely varying amounts of diketones .
The popular "Five Pawns" e juice company proved that when some of their juice tested to have higher diketone levels than real cigarettes.
With todays vapors consuming 5 X as much juice as they did in the past it's a valid concern , those bogus early tests used a small ego setup to test exposure levels .
It's irresponsible to just conclude no worries whatsoever folks , maybe , maybe not but it's premature to conclude anything and people should realize that.
Enough scare mongering!
10 years people have been vaping this stuff.
With not a single case of anything related to exposure to any of these documented anywhere.
Out of millions of users.
In an industry that's a target by big tobacco big money big government insurance companies and the media.
There's been one case of popcorn lung that wasn't connected to manufacturing popcorn and that guy got it by eating microwave popcorn every day of his life.
A disease by the way that has been documented as always happening within two years of initial exposure.
Also a disease for which they suspect (not confirmed) has something to do with exposure to one chemical we use in vaping.
Again it's not confirmed.
I think it's high time for a wake-up call and at least an Eensy Weensy bit of critical thinking.
So what do you say instead of parroting paranoid suspicions we do a little bit of thinking on our own using the data we have available?
Tapatyped
I agree. Resistance is not futile.
I've found that ohmage increases are directly proportionable to battery life and eliquid usage ratios.sub ohm vs above ohm
hours vs days
day vs night
hours vs days
day vs night
If anybody cares, the government has been sponsoring a study of long term effects of vaping, along with comparing against those who smoke, those who dip and any combination. I have been part of it for a few years now. There is no way to sign up for it either. Ill be interested in the results whenever that happens but years away for sure.
i care FTW, "the government" is sponsoring a study that no one knows about, and there is no way to sign up for it......sounds like a Pharma/tobacco funded study by the FDA.....a "secret" study sounds like a sham
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