What's up with all the China hate?

[SissySpike]

I refuse to but a $300 dollar mod from an American or a foreigner as well!
To me the Chinese have the right to earn a living and feed their families as much as we do
and if they sell a reliable car I will buy it immediately, Haters are only good at one thing!

Quality dose not have to come with a excessive price tag and 300$ is the high end not the norm. Do the Chinese have a right to support them selves at the ruin of another? I agree with your quality statement. If something is made well it is worth buying especially if it has a good price tag.

The problem is most Chinese products are not made well thats simply a true statement. If I were on a limited budget I think I would rather have a few quality products that were reliable and worked well over some cheap crap that has to be reworked from day one. buy the best you an afford and you will never go wrong.

 

[TTK]

I thought it referred to total people buying from Fast Tech...

Well, if you consider the whole world a country, that would be correct.

 

[Asbestos4004]

Isn't saying ProVari vs. Fast Tech like saying Droid Razr Maxx vs. ATT? One is a device, the other is a store. ProVari seems to have set the bar for quality devices. Buzzlove recently posted a thread about another device that he feels could rival the ProVari. As far as I know, Fast Tech doesn't make ANYTHING nor do they sell ProVari or Svoemesto. They're attracting a different market and different buyers. If you want a ProVari or a Svoemesto, you can get them. Or, you can get something from Fast Tech...it doesn't really matter to me. It would suck if everybody went out and got a ProVari though...ECF would be super boring. Here's how it would go:

I LOVE my new ProVari!!

me too

me too

me too

me too

me too

me too

me too

Gonna get a ProVari!

you'll love it

you'll love it

you'll love it

My ProVari just came in. I love it!!!

me too

me too

me too

me too

.........

 

[ScottP]

The problem is most Chinese products are not made well thats simply a true statement.

Funny my Chinese products seem to work quite well:
Innokin iTaste SVD - ShenZhen, China
Vision Spinners and Vivi Nova - DongGuan City, China
Kanger EVOD's - ShenZhen, China
Smoktech ARO's - ShenZhen, China
Have some RBA's coming...from guess where.

The key is to not buy the no name brand crap and you can get some quality.

 

[Asbestos4004]

Well, if you consider the whole world a country, that would be correct.

not sure I follow you, but it was a joke....scroll up

 

[ScottM]

When I used to spend a lot of time in China, I found it interesting that many Chinese people bought Canadian, US, German and Japanese goods because the quality was better. That was only when foreign goods of a certain product were available.

My gripe with buying Chinese products is that the quality is not consistent. Depending on the product, maybe 1 of 10 may have issues, or 1 of 100, maybe just 1 of 10,000.

I have a Kanger Protank II that is very good. I have an eVic. I also have two Kayfuns. There is no real way to compare those with a Chinese product. The quality did come at a price. I think VERY highly of the Joyetech eRoll for those wanting a quality cigalike. I still use eGo Twists because they are reliable and simple.

One thing I will never do again is to use a coil/wick from one of the overseas companies. If I need some coils for the Kanger, I buy a pack, take them apart, and replace the coil and wick. Is that needed? Perhaps not. It is just what I chose to do.

I don't hate on Chinese products. I prefer to buy products from another country when possible. I have nothing against Chinese people, in China, or elsewhere- I still have several friends in China. I do have an issue with supporting the Chinese government. I don't like the human rights issues, freedom of speech issues, freedom of religion issues, etc. Before someone snarks-off, I have spent a total of 2 to 2 1/2 years in China. People travel to Shanghai and Beijing, and base their opinion of China on those two cities... Try spending some time all over China. Watch how farmers are treated. That is also a major part of the population.

 

[ItTechy]

When I used to spend a lot of time in China, I found it interesting that many Chinese people bought Canadian, US, German and Japanese goods because the quality was better. That was only when foreign goods of a certain product were available.

My gripe with buying Chinese products is that the quality is not consistent. Depending on the product, maybe 1 of 10 may have issues, or 1 of 100, maybe just 1 of 10,000.

I have a Kanger Protank II that is very good. I have an eVic. I also have two Kayfuns. There is no real way to compare those with a Chinese product. The quality did come at a price. I think VERY highly of the Joyetech eRoll for those wanting a quality cigalike. I still use eGo Twists because they are reliable and simple.

One thing I will never do again is to use a coil/wick from one of the overseas companies. If I need some coils for the Kanger, I buy a pack, take them apart, and replace the coil and wick. Is that needed? Perhaps not. It is just what I chose to do.

I don't hate on Chinese products. I prefer to buy products from another country when possible. I have nothing against Chinese people, in China, or elsewhere- I still have several friends in China. I do have an issue with supporting the Chinese government. I don't like the human rights issues, freedom of speech issues, freedom of religion issues, etc. Before someone snarks-off, I have spent a total of 2 to 2 1/2 years in China. People travel to Shanghai and Beijing, and base their opinion of China on those two cities... Try spending some time all over China. Watch how farmers are treated. That is also a major part of the population.

Did I miss something here you said you have a Kanger ProTank II is this not Chinese?

Personally I don't care if you tell me (or whomever ) that Kanger is Mongolian, Russian, or Japanese, it's a good product!

And a yup, I have 2 ProTanks, I also have a Z-Atty Pro, but again it's about choice!

Come on people, it's about freedom to choose!

Sure some stuff from other countries is crap, so is some stuff from here!

Just go and refil you tank and vape a few , dang ....

 

[iz2sick]

I am not country bashing at all. If you recall, the o.p. asked "why all the China bashing" so I posted what I recalled. No one INTENDED to cause mad cow. Business men in China INTENTIONALLY adulterated food products they knew would be fed to small children. The Chinese government had the great sense to execute some off the guilty parties which I think was brilliant. I applaud them for that, I really do.
About half my neighborhoods are Chinese students, many of them very rich Chinese students which is pretty interesting. I'd rather have them as neighbors than Americans because they are far less rude. I attended the university with the second largest East Asian program in North America. I worked in the library for that program for two years. The Asians make some really gorgeous books to look at, even if you can't read a single character of their languages. Lovely volumes. Don't give me crap about county bashing.

As for this county, I think anyone who wants to run for a political office should be made to bust big rocks into little rocks for at least 2 solid years before they are allowed to run. That's a whole separate thread. We'd be better off if we chose our leaders by lottery. Seriously, it couldn't get much worse. We do not live in a democracy here. This county is a plutocracy and pretty much always has been. I don't know how you read into my comments that I am some sort of "U.S.A. is the greatest county in the history of mankind and always will be" lunatic.
You need to chill out.

First of all, I'm completely chill. Don't read into my comments that way. I never get angry in debates. At most, I get really passionate about it.

You have to understand, I am surrounded by the anti-import crowd. A good percentage of this crowd are in fact borderlining on racism and the rest are definitely stereotyping. I live in Motor City, the "BUY M'RICAN' fervor is strong here. The level of ignorance is appalling. Remember when the Big 3 needed a bailout from the government and they laid off thousands of workers? Guess who people were blaming for their failure here? I was still working on my business degree at the time and I had to shut some students up in a marketing class after pointing out the level of ignorance. I asked how many of them knew about the Ev1 electric car. Then I asked if they knew why it was canceled and never mass-produced. Because the head of GM, in all his wisdom, decided that it was an unprofitable niche market even though it received nothing but positive reviews from customers. He decided that the SUV market was to be the focus. But hey, it did work for a short time and we saw the birth of behemoths like the Excursion. All the while, Toyota was working on a little hybrid called the Prius. That was the beginning of the end for the Big 3. GM had something spectacular on their hands. They were positioned to be the first company to mass-produce electric vehicles. The Prius wouldn't have stood a chance since the Ev1 would have enjoyed years of refinement before the Prius came out.

Decisions like that is what brought the Big 3 down. They allowed foreign cars to rule the market. Yet, even the people who got laid off, blame the consumers for purchasing their Priuses. They slap bumper stickers on their beloved American brand cars blaming people who purchase imports. All the while, the Big 3 fat cats are laughing on their private jets making bad decision after bad decision. By the way, what is this need for these American cars to have 50 different versions of the same model? We have the Tahoe, Suburban, and Yukon. All the same car with a different badge and perhaps some different options. Did you guys know that in Japan, there is no Acura? It's all HONDA. There is no Lexus in Japan. It's all Toyota. Do you know why they create separate "luxury" brands here in America? Because we Americans are so vain, that we want our cars with the nicer options to have a different brand. I don't want to associate my Acura TL with a Honda Accord... eww... most people that drive a TL have no idea that it is an Accord with a different shell.

Anyway, I digress...

I'm not suggesting that you are INTENTIONALLY bashing a country. What you are doing is encouraging stereotypes. We have a thread here about China hate. Someone made a one liner about China poisoning their babies with no other information about it. That was read, according to you at least, by me the wrong way. But then you defend that person's comment with a link about corrupt people in China. I called you both out because that story is completely irrelevant to this topic. By making those types of comments in a thread like this, you are, whether intentional or not, contributing to country bashing. There are a lot of negative stories about China and that comment only added to it. The China bashers will see that comment and run with it without reading the rest of what any of us said. Others will misunderstand it and go on thinking that poisoning babies is perfectly fine to the Chinese government. The general population just doesn't research things they read. We live in an era where a mass of people take Facebook posts as truths when a simple input into Google will debunk it.

I just want everyone to remember that America, as small as we are, have our Lion's share of corruption too.

 

[Ref Minor]

red flag
the "FDA" = Food and Drug Administration. Its a branch of the US Govt under the US Department of Health and Human Services. In turn
I beleive that dept is under the Dept of the Interior...(hows that ofr govt bureaucracy?) the FDA has no jurisdiction or budget/authority to
conduct operations outside of the US 50 states.
If Im not mistaken, in the UK its the "F.S.A", Food Standard Agency?
I couldnt imagine anything alluded to with "FDA" could be outside of the US 50 states.
Im a fan of the particular company/sales of the aforementioned. However...Im shocked! With all the hype, news attention
and action proposed concerning the 38-40 states trying to get the FDA involvement of late- youd think an FDA inspection would've been
all over the news in the states. Id also think, if it went well (for the supplier) they'd be touting it loudly?
I also didnt find mention in the AEMSA website about any FDA inspections of manu's?
Why AEMSA? | AEMSA

Something doesnt quite jive here...

You are mistaken, if you carried on reading a few posts you would see the company was Indian and the inspected factory was in India, therefore the nicotine being discussed is Indian.

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

The same can be true of US companies. How many people did Firestone tires kill due to the rubber coming off of the tires before they were recalled?

Minor nit: Firestone/Bridgestone is a Japanese company and was when this defect manifested itself.

Your point is well made: Design and manufacturing defects are a function of human imperfection and no country or company is immune to that particular disorder.

 

[WattWick]

...
The problem is most Chinese products are not made well thats simply a true statement.
...

You could remove "Chinese" from that statement and it would still hold true. You could insert any country, including the US, and it would still hold true.

China don't make junk for the sake of junk. They make junk (or quality stuff) to fill orders meant for export. Some joke about how "Made in the USA" used to mean something... and now it means something will last until about 2-3 months after the warranty expire. If you're lucky. That joke was made in the US so I guess it's a good one

 

[Pinggolfer]

I don't hate on Chinese products. I prefer to buy products from another country when possible. I have nothing against Chinese people, in China, or elsewhere- I still have several friends in China. I do have an issue with supporting the Chinese government. I don't like the human rights issues, freedom of speech issues, freedom of religion issues, etc. Before someone snarks-off, I have spent a total of 2 to 2 1/2 years in China. People travel to Shanghai and Beijing, and base their opinion of China on those two cities... Try spending some time all over China. Watch how farmers are treated. That is also a major part of the population.

He was not bashing his Kanger or ProTanks at all. He was making a valid point about the Chinese government and why he is hesitant to support it. We all are using Chinese vaping products at cheap prices. So you saved a few bucks on a Kanger clone or Joyetech clone. If it arrives doa then what have you saved? No one on this forum who smoked complained about paying $5 to $10 for a pack of cigarettes.

 

[RaceGun59]

In the start of this thread, some one asked about U.S. made nic juice. Just received the below from myfreedomsmokes.com. I've had good luck in dealing with the company, so I presume it is not just advertising hype. It does mention made in an FDA inspected facility:


Introducing NicSelect Vaping-Grade Nicotine
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Our famous Unflavored Nicotine "Smoke Juice" E-Liquid is made with using NicSelect
Vaping-Grade Nicotine. NicSelect Vaping-Grade Nicotine is the highest quality nicotine
on the market and is made specifically for vaping in the only FDA inspected and
approved nicotine production facility & laboratory in the world. Buy with confidence
knowing that you are getting the very best nicotine available and that it is always
distilled from actual tobacco leaves and stems and not synthetically produced.

This is from the CASAA
CASAA: U.S. extracted nicotine will soon be available

 

[xan13x]

Xan13X;
Well Said. AtMystique New products has always had a good rep in the EU mkt (ttbomk). Funny though, I think many ppls feel "good" when they support thier local economy and craftsmen. Who couldnt then also feel good about helping out the folks that've maybe even had it worse than us? The latest recession/depression/whatHaveyou really did hit some spots of planet earth much harder than the US. SOS- based on products/service/supply&demand needs - NOT hype, ads, sales specials etc. explains the success of many of our suppliers here in the ECF GLOBAL Community! Cheers.

I'm not 100% sure I follow you completely. I tend to be more on the capitalist side of my motivation for whom I buy from. I'm the type of person that will pay extra, have fewer toys, but have toys I can depend on. This has been hashed and rehashed on here 100 million times, but I'll pay the premium for something that I can expect to last as opposed to taking a chance and having something crap out on me unexpectedly.

I sort of get your motivation on the statement about certain parts of the world being hit harder by the recession than others, but I'd rather donate 10 bucks to a cause than suck vaporized chemicals through a possibly dubiously made device. That isn't to say I won't order a cheapy that gets good reviews though.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but Greece is one of the hardest hit areas with the "global downturn" along with Spain and Portugal. So, in that vein, while it isn't my motivation for buying their products, I would like to think I am rewarding people in a country in rough financial waters for making great products. The bonus is that I don't have to compromise on what I like quality-wise and I'm sending money to folks who have a 30% unemployment rate.

 

[ScottM]

He was not bashing his Kanger or ProTanks at all. He was making a valid point about the Chinese government and why he is hesitant to support it. We all are using Chinese vaping products at cheap prices. So you saved a few bucks on a Kanger clone or Joyetech clone. If it arrives doa then what have you saved? No one on this forum who smoked complained about paying $5 to $10 for a pack of cigarettes.

You are correct. My point is that I do not have a complete boycot China mindset. It is not truly possible in today's world, anyways. I do try to limit what I buy based on its point of manufacture due to quality related issues, but also because I feel strongly about human rights, the environment, etc. Strange statements, perhaps, from a rather radical conservative, but I do care about the environment. More importantly, I would rather spend more on a product that does not benefit a government that improsons people for their beliefs, does not treat a portion of the population as though they are mindless, thoughtless manual labor with absolutley no chance for education, other work, change of social position, freedom to travel even within the country, etc.

Kudos to all that would spend $20 instead of, say, $40, because that $20 savings means more than not supporting an oppressive government. If the only manufacturer is China, so be it. Otherwise, when organizations equivalent to OSHA exist in China, they stop polluting so much, and the cost goes up, I will prefer to source products elsewhere when I can.

Is my Protank II a good product? Yes it is. Does my heart ache a little when I use it? Indeed it does. I can't stop thinking about some of the things I witnessed there.

 

[ScottM]

I was going to edit my post to make it easier to follow the logic regarding the $20 and $40. Poorly worded, but I think most will understand- first was sarcasm, which I am trying to stop doing. It is appropriate that my own burned me this time....

 

[iz2sick]

I was going to edit my post to make it easier to follow the logic regarding the $20 and $40. Poorly worded, but I think most will understand- first was sarcasm, which I am trying to stop doing. It is appropriate that my own burned me this time....

But we aren't usually talking about a $20 different are we?

 

[ScottM]

We are usually talking about if there is anything available, yes. That is why the Protank...

The mass produced products for vaping just don't seem to be available from other countries. Not everyone is ready to pop $120+ for an RBA. It is not really possible get into vaping without using products made in China, or some other country that has an interesting relationship with human rights.

For me, it was worth enough to spend an exrs $100 on the Kayfun to get one that is not a clone made in China. This was do to quality, supporting the original designers and manufacturers, and it is machined in Germany. What about Russia as the designer and parent company? The work force, there, is treated pretty well, and they are working on pollution issues- there is still a bit of corruption in the organizations, but they are making headway. I've spent about 2 1/2 years there, as well.

 

[Maggiemw]

You are correct. My point is that I do not have a complete boycot China mindset. It is not truly possible in today's world, anyways. I do try to limit what I buy based on its point of manufacture due to quality related issues, but also because I feel strongly about human rights, the environment, etc. Strange statements, perhaps, from a rather radical conservative, but I do care about the environment. More importantly, I would rather spend more on a product that does not benefit a government that improsons people for their beliefs, does not treat a portion of the population as though they are mindless, thoughtless manual labor with absolutley no chance for education, other work, change of social position, freedom to travel even within the country, etc.

Kudos to all that would spend $20 instead of, say, $40, because that $20 savings means more than not supporting an oppressive government. If the only manufacturer is China, so be it. Otherwise, when organizations equivalent to OSHA exist in China, they stop polluting so much, and the cost goes up, I will prefer to source products elsewhere when I can.

Is my Protank II a good product? Yes it is. Does my heart ache a little when I use it? Indeed it does. I can't stop thinking about some of the things I witnessed there.

Ok, I can see that our living experiences in China have brought us to totally different conclusions. I spent a total of about 9 months there, over 5 summers in the early 1990s. As I have said elsewhere, I loved it. I met wonderful people, learned an incredible amount, saw breathtakingly beautiful places, and just generally really appreciated all my time spent there. Was I interested in the political and humanitarian aspects? Yes, of course. Obviously the answers I came to are quite different from yours.

What this should tell us is that we cannot generalize. Individual experiences are subjective by definition.

I live in Israel and a lot of people have immediate reflexes towards it as a country. There are boycotts or support movements organized for us or against us and lots of tempers get fired up quite regularly. China elicits the same kind of immediate judgements. Unfortunately it is often no facts, or incorrect facts that form the basis of these reactions.

I boycott certain products and manufacturers, even if my little refusal isn't going to have any impact. It makes me feel better in myself to refuse to buy XXX or YYY because of their documented lack of worker protection or whatever. The thing is, get the facts. Verifiable facts, not just rumours. Then buy according to your conscience, your values and your budget.

Mindful consumer behaviour, not knee-jerk consumer behaviour.

 

[ScottM]

Arrrgghhhh!!!! THis server on my end is sloooooooowwwwwww and glitchy. Sorry for the typos, I can't edit those, either.

I f I p o s t a g a i n , I w i l l t y p e m o r e c a r e f u l l y .