I expect that alcohol and tobacco companies have a myriad of regulations they must adhere to to sell their products.
It's an industry that is moving too fast for its own good. The FDA will slow it down, but I expect it will get sorted eventually.
When is the FDA thing going down?
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I expect that alcohol and tobacco companies have a myriad of regulations they must adhere to to sell their products.
It's an industry that is moving too fast for its own good. The FDA will slow it down, but I expect it will get sorted eventually.
I am genuinely happy with vaping! Feel wonderful! Just don't want to see them go! I love paying for gas, looking at the cigs behind the counter and chuckling. Love seeing the disposable eCigs behind the counter with empty spots in the display!
It makes me so mad why the FDA is even considering banning or regulating E-cigarettes when we have so many other unsafe products out there not even to be dealt with. For instance Synthatic marajana also known as herbal incense or sachet, don't get me wrong they have banned this many times. But the makers just change the formula and resell it. Its crap like that the FDA should be focusing on, that stuff has caused many deaths already and now after 5 years since its been out I still see the stuff in smoke shops. The government is _______ messed up, its all about making money for themselves and screw the general people of this country. Anyway, I won't get too fired up or I'm liable to keep going for many paragraphs about the government and what its doing to this country we call a free country.
As was pointed out right above me, all the FDA has to do is to ban any e-cig device made after such and such a date, until further research has validated its usefulness and safety. This is already in their proposed deeming regulations.
http://www.casaa.org/deeming_regulations.html
Doing such could effectively kill the e-cig industry, as most devices in use will have been manufactured after that date. Most of the e-cig vendors are small mom-and-pop businesses that could never afford such a research study alone. It's doubtful even an e-cig vendors business group could generate the sponsorship to do such a study. And such studies could take several years to complete and present to the FDA.
We will have to rely on CASAA to present some common sense logic to the FDA. We may or may not have Big Tobacco supporting us, as their group seems to represent two differing representations. A couple companies who have acquired e-cig companies will be protecting their investments, while the have-not tobacco companies likely will see e-cigs as competition to their traditional nicotine product. Of course, Big Pharmacy will oppose us 100% as they have the most to lose to keeping e-cigs available.
It likely will be an uphill battle for e-cig success with the FDA.
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If that is the case, we are screwed! They need to run tests on the equipment and juices we have now! We have evolved! The ingredients that are in juices nowadays couldn't get any simpler! I am with you Shane! Thanks to bathsalts, the zombie apocalypse is here! How long did it take for the government to figure out that people were getting stupid on Sal(purple flower)?
I don't understand. Everything used in e-cigs is already FDA approved, right? The only thing not approved is the form, above all that it dares to LOOK like a cigarette.
And, do manufacturers really have to demonstrate the fitness of their products? If I manufacture a new style paper clip? A new flavor of candy?
So, it's not manufacturers. It's drug companies. Nicotine is already FDA approved anyway.
I'm not trying to be difficult. And, I agree the FDA may well do something stupid. I agree enough to have a stockpile of nicotine just in case.
It's just that the whole idea of them doing something stupid regarding e-cigs is just so incredibly . . . . stupid! Trying to ban or make it more difficult to obtain e-cigs is just so irrational!
FDA approved, but not used in the way they were intended. A piece of candy is GRAS if it's eaten like other candies, but not if it's inhaled.
Nicotine is approved, but only at certain dosages. Cigarettes are only allowed 1.5mg, same with patches and gum. E-juice is all over the place.
Was happy as heck to read that thread!
I would think that they would be unable to ban devices made before the ruling with given respect to inability to enact ex post facto law... The only tobacco-derived substances that PV's use are just the nicotine itself. As far as studies go, I'm actually writing a paper on electronic cigarettes right now. I found a bunch of studies through my university's databases, and all of them state that ecigs are considerably safer and select harmful substances were only found in certain brand name products, usually in pre-filled cartomizers or certain imported liquids.
I honestly don't think there is much for them to ban.
I honestly don't think there is much for them to ban.
This is kinda the Fly in Ointment when it comes to Food Flavorings and Safety. While they may be GRAS for Oral Ingestion, what about Inhalation?
And then there is the Concept of Frequency of Dosage.
If a person ate 3 Dozen Blueberry Flavored Muffins every day, 7 Days a week for 2 Years straight and then developed a Lump on their throat, would you blame it on the Blueberry Flavoring or would you Blame it on eating Too Much Blueberry Flavoring?
It amuses me that you guys are discussing the health effects of ejuice and ecigs as it relates to what decision the FDA and other regulatory bodies will hand down. As if those effects are the driving force behind their decision(s).
The sooner you realize that the federal government is nothing more than a mafia shakedown artist the more clear things will become to you.
Stop discussing the pros and cons of health effects and start contemplating the tax revenue ramifications of their decisions. What decisions will put the most money in the federal government's pocket? There's your answer.
The sooner you realize that the federal government is nothing more than a mafia shakedown artist the more clear things will become to you.
Stop discussing the pros and cons of health effects and start contemplating the tax revenue ramifications of their decisions. What decisions will put the most money in the federal government's pocket? There's your answer.
Outdated studies on brand name "gateway mall devices" that we have moved past! Ecig and APV technology has gotten sooooooooo much better since! I would love to see the FDA test a Provari, GG, IHybrid, even down to the eGo's and eRolls! I can see regulating liquid, but as mentioned before, we use our cards online, or we can sign at the door. Nothing stops teenagers from getting ahold of Mommy or Daddy's ecig, knives, alcohol, tobacco, FDA approved scripts, guns. The list goes on. That is between parent and child. I personally cannot see how an ecig could be a gateway to smoking. Smoking tastes HORRIBLE! I still cannot believe I smoked for 21 years! That would be like giving a kid candy, then telling them to lick a pack of Equal!
You are basically saying that nothing anyone says or does matters.
In that, you are wrong.
We, as vapers, have passion and power.
We have proven that many times, and continue to prove it again and again.
Saying we have no power is the worst thing a person can do for the vaping community.
Maybe we are talking about the Pro's and Con's about e-Liquids because this is an e-Cigarette Forum?
There were actually studies that were done within the past 6 months. Most of the reports are unavailable generally without having to purchase the report itself, but it seems as though they only seem to test actual "electronic cigarettes" that are widely available. Technically, just how Djarum and similar brands avoided high taxes and regulation by coining "little cigars", PV manufacturers could possibly have an evasion method by sticking with the term "Personal Vaporizer", unless the FDA goes and attempts to take care of thouse too. Provari's, iHy's, eGo's, etc are merely battery containers. The regulation (if it happens) could only be applied to pre-filled cartomizers or cartridges. They can't ban a metal tube with some wire and polyfill in it if it's empty, considering it isn't a drug. Banning mods would be like banning flashlights without lightbulbs.
PG/VG are shown to be relatively safe and nicotine can be synthetically made if I'm not mistaken. I think that if anything, the FDA will force us all into the DIY route, and obtaining nicotine would just become a bit harder (and more expensive).
Let's assume you are right...
So how would that affect your friend's mother who still smokes?
How would that affect you daughter who starts smoking two years from now?
This isn't really about us... it's about them.
EDIT: And by the way, synthetic nicotine is not really practical at this time.
EDIT: Although I'm not sure what that matters in regards to your arguments.
Not exactly what I said. But you are pretty misguided on this issue. Who is the biggest funder of the anti-ecig movement? Who makes the most money off the sale of a pack of cigarettes? How much money does the federal government make off the sale of ejuice?
You can't be that Naive...?
I'm not saying you can't make a difference, but if you think that the real issue behind this is health reasons...
If I had to guess, I'd say that the FDA is not going to ban ecigs. They will, however, regulate them and in turn, they will be taxed heavily...as much as the market will bare...just like analogs. And you'll probably consider that a victory. Pretty clever fellas there at the FDA. How do I know? I used to work there. As a legal-economist. Why do you figure the FDA needs legal economists? Or 9mm Glocks for that matter?
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Right. Which has little to do with the FDA and this particular issue.Maybe we are talking about the Pro's and Con's about e-Liquids because this is an e-Cigarette Forum?
Read the title of the thread....facepalm
I was merely bringing up the fact that nicotine could be made without tobacco extraction, I'm not entirely sure on how or where it's sourced from, but if suppliers went that route it wouldn't be considered a "tobacco product" anymore.
As far as current smokers and future smokers, who knows right?
The worst case scenario is that the FDA would ban PV's all together, which is highly unlikely due to the nature of these devices. My guess is that at the least, they'll attempt taxing the hell out of "premade" ecigs, like the Blu's and all that you can find. That would just make it tougher for those getting into vaping to actually get "into" vaping.
Take a look at the steroid market. Nolvadex is a drug that steroid users use as post-cycle therapy, it's often used (non-athletically) for the treatment of breast cancer. As of now, it's prescription only, but ordering it as an "experimental chemical" is still legal and cannot be regulated. My guess is that this is the relabeling that nicotine extract would get for those trying to avoid high taxes.
Pre-made juice may see a hike since it's more of a "completed" product.
I'm just attempting to break down the situation, but we all know very well that if there is a consumable that the FDA has not monetized, they'll do what's in their power to monetize it, even if it means regulation and causing difficulty to users of it.
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