Which mods have absolute DC Output like ProVari?

[dam718]

Aloha folks,

One of the things I've been fascinated by over the time I have been vaping, particularly in reference to variable voltage / wattage devices, is how every device achieves its DC output.

I would argue that the market is flooded with devices that use a pulse width modulated 0-6V duty cycle operating at 33.3MHz. It's probably a safe assumption that most of these devices use the same power regulation circuit.

These achieve the desired voltage output by firing the device at 6v, then back down to 0v, then back to 6v at a rate which averages out to be the set voltage.

I have used many of these devices, and it is my opinion that the vape quality is not as smooth as a device with a steady DC output at the set voltage.

So... With all that said, I would like to compile a list of devices that have a constant DC signal at the set voltage. I know the ProVari makes the list, and I believe the eVic has steady output as well, albeit with some limitations.

I also just watched a Phil Busardo review of the new L-Rider Lambo 6.0, which has steady DC output, but looks to have some bugs.

So for now the list is short...

1) ProVari
2) eVic
3) Lambo 6.0 (Buggy for now, doesn't always fire at set voltage)
4) MVP / MVP2
5) dna-20 Mods
6) Semovar / Nivel Mods


Any others? Please post a link to the device, and any evidence you may have which display a constant DC output as opposed to the 0-6V duty cycle of the "33.3 Club"

Remember, we're looking for VV/VW devices. I know mechanicals have steady output...

Thanks!

 

[Thrasher]

the Provari and evic are PWM as well
the evic is around 100Hz
and the Provari is 800hz plus
the thing is if the output signal is a high enough frequency then filtered correctly it will be close to a dc signal on a scope, the massive rise and fall of the 33.3hz chip is why they dont seem to be as smooth.

the Semovar/nivel chip is pure dc
DNA 20

and these are actual DC to DC regulators no pulsing what so ever. i do not know of the others off hand.

 

[Paul.K]

the Provari and evic are PWM as well
the evic is around 100Hz
and the Provari is 800hz plus
the thing is if the output signal is a high enough frequency then filtered correctly it will be close to a dc signal on a scope, the massive rise and fall of the 33.3hz chip is why they dont seem to be as smooth.

the Semovar/nivel chip is pure dc
DNA 20

^^^^^ This. My Provari was around 900 hz without a load and my Semovar was flat dc. They both vape great but the Semovar is a tad smoother vape.

 

[dam718]

I was aware of the much higher PWM frequency of the ProVari, an oscope measures it out pretty flat on set voltage, and that's really what I was after.

Does the Semovar use the DNA 20 circuit? I'm a bit concerned with the 7 Watt low limit of the DNA20. Everything else about them seems pretty top notch though...

Can anyone point me in the direction of other mods using this Nivel chipset? Or any documentation about the Nivel chip?

 

[dam718]

Added MVP/MVP2, Semovar/Nivel, and DNA-20 mods to the list.

 

[Thrasher]

documents on the nivel chip in english are far and few. you can try a search as I think there is a US distributor.
problem was its one guy and he had soo many supply problems it never took off (kind of a shame the crap he went through as well), then when everything finally got worked out there were competitors like the dna which are produced here and more readily available that took every ones attention away. just like the DNA the nivel is also available as a finished chip for modders.

there are a few modders in the modding forum who have/are using it.

ah here it is.
Variable Wattage Power Regulation With A Brilliant One-Button User Interface Is Finally Available in the USA | The Nivel Chip
the manual
Nivel VV-VW Board User Guide en(1)

the DNA is a great device but it lacks true buck/boost and things like the ability to use vv or vw. i really like the chip and was thinking of getting one to put into a blown mod I have. people try to compair it to the DNA as a direct less powerful competitor when it's not, it is more of a pure dc challenger to all the PWM regulated vw mods. and so far in load testing and scope tests it seems to be the only chip that to hold its own against the provari. check out the provari vs semovar thread in general forum.

 

[dam718]

Thanks Thrasher!

 

[turbocad6]

just lovin my nivel and dna20 mods, def the way to go if you ask me

 

[dam718]

That would be a hard decision to make, choosing between a DNA 20 and a Nivel based mod.

Heck, that Nivel chip looks like it would be a relatively painless transplant into a Provari body. Hmmm...

 

[turbocad6]

I own both and I'd def give the edge to the dna20, better display easier to use and view multiple things at the same time like battery level and coil resistance and easier to adjust, not to mention much more powerful, but the nivel is also a great chip within it's power range

 

[Thrasher]

That would be a hard decision to make, choosing between a DNA 20 and a Nivel based mod.

Heck, that Nivel chip looks like it would be a relatively painless transplant into a Provari body. Hmmm...

LOL kinda what i was thinkin

i got a dna 20 mod coming but I think if you dont plan on going high wattage/power its really not needed, i got the kick2 and it sits at 10watts with a 1.2 ohm coil. on a regulated device I personally (my opinion only) dont see the need for high power i seem to have no problems getting a 2 ohm coil on my provari to perform like a .8 ohm coil on my hybrid. and in a way the low resistance micro coils pushing ultra low ohm vaping out of the way kinda proves my point. comes down more to tuning the build, then upping the power

 

[dam718]

I agree there, I always had much better performance from my RBA's using ~2 Ohm coils with 30AWG Kanthal on a ProVari than I did using sub ohm coils with 28AWG Kanthal on a Poldiac. Anymore I don't even mess with RBA's anymore... I'm content with easy mode ProTank 2's...

I was gonna order another ProVari on Friday, either the Zombie or Red... But now... Heck, I may just wait til Vaperev gets the Semovar back in stock. That is one slick looking mod...

Decisions decisions... You know, ProVape isn't gonna make the Zombie and Red forever, better get em while I can... LoL... I'll get a Semovar whenever

 

[Baditude]

I was gonna order another ProVari on Friday, either the Zombie or Red... But now... Heck, I may just wait til Vaperev gets the Semovar back in stock. That is one slick looking mod...

Decisions decisions... You know, ProVape isn't gonna make the Zombie and Red forever, better get em while I can... LoL... I'll get a Semovar whenever

Another consideration is easy "availabilty" of the mod and the "customer service/repair service" record of the manufacturer. Provape's customer service is already proven to be excellent. Provari's are easily available and can reach your home within 3 - 4 days after you place your order. Provape will also repair your Provari for as long as you own it (theoretically forever) and have it returned to you good as new within a weeks time.

Sounds like there is a long waiting list for these other mods being considered. And if that is true, how reliable will that manufacturer be in doing repairs if needed, and how long will it take them to complete repairs and return the mod?

Evolv had trouble with keeping up with doing repairs to the Darwin and producing new models simultaneously from what I understand and ended up discontinuing it to work on other projects. Historically, new companies often struggle to manufacture issue-free products: for example the "Stallion" VV/VW mod was a monster of a USA made PV on paper using the same chip from Evolv, but had early production issues and the company has stopped selling them indefinitely until they can get the bugs worked out. The Stallion - Advanced Personal Vaporizer - Mod - APV | Texas Select Vapor

http://www.texasselectvapor.com/stallion-apv-power-regulated-personal-vaporizer-kit/#reviews

 

[Mike.S]

pulse width modulated 0-6V duty cycle operating at 33.3MHz. It's probably a safe assumption that most of these devices use the same power regulation circuit.

ITYM 33.3 KHz. MHz would be a radio transmitter.

Other than possibly causing static on radio reception (due to higher frequencies generated by the switching spikes), or how accurately the PWM is controlled, there's no rational reason for a difference between PWM and voltage controlled sources - the coil just can't change temperature that fast. Read up on RMS power if you want more understanding.

All of this reminds me of audiophoolery, with 0 gauge litz wire speaker cables, $3000 power cords, and light hitting the speakers affecting the sound. Really, it doesn't make any real difference on that basis - it's all in your mind. Any difference would be due to how closely the PWM/voltage is regulated. I could see a difference if the device doing PWM doesn't pre-regulate the voltage being modulated, which would be the cheapest way to do things.

 

[dr g]

It's 33hz
And that, along with the provari, et. al. are DC-to-DC converters.

 

[dam718]

Yep, it's 33.3Hz, I was mistaken there

 

[dam718]

ITYM 33.3 KHz. MHz would be a radio transmitter.

Other than possibly causing static on radio reception (due to higher frequencies generated by the switching spikes), or how accurately the PWM is controlled, there's no rational reason for a difference between PWM and voltage controlled sources - the coil just can't change temperature that fast. Read up on RMS power if you want more understanding.

All of this reminds me of audiophoolery, with 0 gauge litz wire speaker cables, $3000 power cords, and light hitting the speakers affecting the sound. Really, it doesn't make any real difference on that basis - it's all in your mind. Any difference would be due to how closely the PWM/voltage is regulated. I could see a difference if the device doing PWM doesn't pre-regulate the voltage being modulated, which would be the cheapest way to do things.

If I didn't own several 33.3Hz devices and a ProVari I would believe this rationale. That said, I have done many a side by side comparison between the ProVari, Vamo, ZMax, Lavatube 2 & 2.5... To me there is a difference. And I'm not the only one that notices a difference.

I don't know what it is about the 33.3Hz circuit, but 4V on the ProVari compared to 4V on a 33.3Hz device just aren't the same. Is the coil heating up too fast, and I am getting 33 flashes of burnt juice? Heck, I don't know... All I can say for certain is when I vape the exact same atomizer on a 33.3Hz device at a given voltage it is a little harsh, and sometimes burnt. I move that same atomizer ofer to the ProVari at the same voltage and the vape is smooth with no hints of harshness or burnt flavor. It's a much smoother and enjoyable experience.

I've said this time and time again... I really wish I was crazy, and all the arguments trying to debunk this "myth" were true... But there are so many people that agree with this theory that we can't all be wrong?

There is a certain type of acid/base that some humans can taste and some humans can not. Perhaps only people classified genetically as "tasters" (this is a real genetic trait) can tell the difference? I am a "taster"

So for people like me that can taste the difference between a steady DC output and a 0-6V PWM RMS Output, that's why I make this list.

 

[Rickajho]

So for people like me that can taste the difference between a steady DC output and a 0-6V PWM RMS Output, that's why I make this list.

That one gets a big "Me too!" here. (I can tell the difference between a Vamo 2 in PWM mode and RMS mode without having to check.) Call it crazy but I can taste the difference and even though a ProThingy is "all that" the fact that it's still PWM - albeit higher frequency PWM - is enough to make me stall.

My favorite vape is still a VV box mod I got from SmokTek that uses a nice, simple VariCool regulator. The vape coming off that tastes "clean" compared to 33 Hz PWM anything. The PWM stuff always tastes harsh to me. "Digital harshness"? Something like that.

But you can't add it to the list - they quit making and selling them.

Still looking for anyone making a mod - nicer than a box mod - that uses a Varicool.

 

[dam718]

I know both the Provari and eVic (which I listed both here) use PWM...

There are some pretty big differences between the way they do it, and the way it's done on the 33.3Hz devices.

The eVic is a strange one... At certain voltages it's a nice straight non modulated output. When it is using PWM, it is using a buffered 2V peak to peak pulse... Meaning, for example, that if the set voltage is 4.5V, it would have a low peak of 2.5V and a high peak of 4.5V, and pulsing at 100Hz. This much faster frequency makes for a smooth vape, and because it never fires above the set voltage, you have no possibility of there being a possible burnt flavor. It's not a 6V peak to peak from 0-6V... That's a big rise and fall with every cycle.

The ProVari has a much higher tolerance, and also never fires above the set voltage. It's using 800-900Hz with a smaller peak to peak than the eVic. If I recall correctly, the oscope reading I saw when looking at a time frame in microseconds showed a clean sine wave with about .5V peak to peak, with the high voltage of the peak being its set voltage. Looking at it over .5 second, you couldn't tell it was a PWM signal at all. It's so clean, in fact, that a standard DMM can read a clean output voltage from the ProVari 510 connector at the set voltage when fired. This is not the case with any of the 33.3Hz devices. The reading jump all over the place.

So, even though they do use PWM, I can safely place the ProVari and eVic here, because they meet my criteria of a "clean signal"

 

[turbocad6]

I don't know enough to say anything for certain with Ecigs when it comes to this, but I have experience with pulsing vs straight dc when it comes to welding, and in welding, even a frequency of pulse at 500Htz is very noticeable in the arc profile and the penetration of the weld, it's different, not by a whole lot but it does affect the overall output felt at the weld and the final weld characteristics and heat input to the metal. again I don't know anything for certain, but I think it's possible that similar may apply to Ecigs. if the slightest differences in other parameters all affect the actual vape received then it doesn't sound improbable that this may affect flavor too, at least to some degree. then again, it may not, since the coil can't really transition as quickly as an arc does, and therefore the temperature profile output may not be affected much at all