Who are the cloud chasers kidding ?

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tumbafox

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I am probably going to get a lot of negative feedback on this thread but it time to wake up and smell the roses. I get the sense that many members in my opinion think the the Obama Tobacco Control act which was enacted I think in 1999 when few people ever even heard of e-cig think its directed soley at e-cigs. I don't think e-gis were even in the originally drafted law.

It was designed primarily curb future generations of new smokers. Our children and their children etc. Nicotine does not kill but the addiction is what keeps generating of new generations of smokers from picking up the tobacco habit which is responsible for 25% of all US deaths. At the time most people never even new what an e-cig was. The reasons for Blu's great success is most people simple want an alternative to Tobacco which is being banned all over the place.

My first e-cig was a Ruyan 120 mAh battery with a dripping atomizer. Then came cartomizers, clearomizers, fluxomizers and tanks with bigger and bigger batteries. We are a fringe group and some of us have now split off into some sort of militia styled group of people.

I like vaping and I like smoking more but as e-cigs won't kill me even if 35 years of tobacco usage may already have set the stage for me. Nicotine doesn't kill 750,00 American's a year as tobacco does the killing (not the nicotine) for respiratory disease, heart disease, vascular disease, diabetic complications and of course lung cancer I figured since I have two children who thankfully are adults and do not smoke or vape and they even give me .... about vaping.

But there is a new menace that may actually threaten our health as vapers and that is high wattage vaping. My first sweet spot was 8 watts with my provari. after all that's the bottom line. Now 8-10 watts I'm fine with that but the technology is now evolve to 20 watts, then 30, now 50 is available. If your a modder like me you might even take the plunge up to the sooe to be obsolete 120 Watt Naos raptor which is not commercially available you have to build it or pay someone an insane amount of money to build it for you. But soon the 100 mods will be readily available by companies like Sigelei and Pioneer for you, both chinese quality brands. I actually have the Pioneer for you 50Watt IPV2 and a Sigelei 20 Watt which is well built but I am dying to get my hands on a Sigelei 100 Watt Box mod which requires 2 hi output batteries 18650 in series not parallel. Rather than sell off all the parts I bought to build the Raptor. I spent maybe $75 so far and am just deciding on an enclosure. Since the wattage is so high no one dares make one out a plastic as it will melt if you chain vape.

Kanger just came out with a sub ohm .8 coil replacement for the Protank or Aerotank. Personally I love the Kanger Aerotank with Pyrex glass tanks and I can recoil it myself in less that 5 minutes. I even enjoy the Aerotank more than the Russian or any high end rebuildable dripping atpmizers or rebuildable tank atomizers the difference being the tank atomizer have no wicking.

My point is that although the government can never stop me from vaping because everything i need I can get at any Radio Shack. My point is that vaping over say 20 watts may prove to have some real health risk when it come to out respiratory system. I don't know of any scientific studies about cloud chases which if you want a great 2 minute laugh watch a Toutube video call "Vaping at 400 watts"

Beware.
 
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Asbestos4004

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As long as we're making assumptions with nothing to back it up...why not go with 2 watts? Or 8 watts? Why not say 19.7 watts is the point where we can damage our respiratory systems? Standing on a street corner at a busy intersection can cause serious damage and even kill. Do you know how many cars still have Asbestos brake pads on them? Every time they tap the brake pedal , you have an airborne fiber emission. Thats actually true and has been proven.....unlike your silly post.
 

Ryedan

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My point is that vaping over say 20 watts may prove to have some real health risk when it come to out respiratory system. I don't know of any scientific studies about cloud chases

Vaping at any watts may be bad for us, though we have no data that supports that yet. Maybe it gets worse at 10 watts, maybe at 20, maybe at 50. What does this have to do with cloud chasing? Cloud chasing is much more than a set number of watts though I believe it starts at higher than 20 watts ;)

which if you want a great 2 minute laugh watch a Toutube video call "Vaping at 400 watts.

Yup, that's funny and I really like the shot of the cat :)
 
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SingedVapor

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In the same logic as your post. Vaping in General may prove to have some real health risks. Using cotton may have some real health risks. Vaping flavored juices may have some real health risks. As of right now there is no hard evidence that anything you said or I said is true. This unfortunately comes with the thought of "anything fun must be bad for you". Once again we are blaming the cloud chasers for another disaster. :( we really shouldn't create a rift in the community like this
 

GinnyTx

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why must as a group we demonize part of it? the evil "cloud chasers"??
I like those kids, I'm not liking the nose bleeds and other symptoms I see some of them have when I'm at events or when we're in the vape shop. It's not for me...but VAPING is, and as a community they are part of it. You know how legislation goes you demonize one, you're kind of demonizing your own vaping rights. So I don't do that.

the fact of the matter is who knows yet, vaping is a fertile ground for research, why? there isn't really what I'd consider to be a huge reputable knowledge base. There's a few studies for smoking cessation, but long term effects and at different wattages/volts? who knows....really.

So who knows?
I hate to tell you but if those cloud chasers are in danger of being legislated to stop, so are we, just "sippin'" vaping...
 

iamthevoice

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When we smoked, I think many of us would have laughed if we had watched kids do this: image.jpg
 

Kropotkin

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DaveP

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Cloud chasing is probably synonymous to high watt subwoofer car stereo systems. It's a look at me activity. It will wear off and something will replace it in time. Cigarette smokers would have graduated to cigars and pipes if large clouds were more fun.

I can't handle that kind of vapor over time. PG in high concentrations with the wattage cranked up just irritates my throat. VG in a similar mode leads to the heavy lung feeling. I'm happy at 10 watts or less.

It's not necessarily the candy flavors that will attract teenagers to vaping, it's more the cloud blowing. The young sales counter people in my local vape shop swap clouds when the place isn't crowded. It can get foggy in a large room in a hurry when they try to outdo each other.
 
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WattWick

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As long as we're making assumptions with nothing to back it up...why not go with 2 watts? Or 8 watts? Why not say 19.7 watts is the point where we can damage our respiratory systems? Standing on a street corner at a busy intersection can cause serious damage and even kill. Do you know how many cars still have Asbestos brake pads on them? Every time they tap the brake pedal , you have an airborne fiber emission. Thats actually true and has been proven.....unlike your silly post.

I vote 19.7 as I hardly vape over that.

That being said. IF there are yet-to-be-proved carcinogenic flavorings or such in a liquid, I don't think there is any denying that increasing the dosage also increases the harm. Note the big "if".
 

beckdg

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I vote 19.7 as I hardly vape over that.

That being said. IF there are yet-to-be-proved carcinogenic flavorings or such in a liquid, I don't think there is any denying that increasing the dosage also increases the harm. Note the big "if".
I can agree that higher dosage increases harm capabilities. Dosage makes the poison as with anything else.

What i don't get...

WHY do people think higher power means higher temperature? Then how can they take their horribly incorrect assumptions and try to teach those that know better and berate them for knowing from experience vs. assumption?

If you don't do it you don't know. You're in a position to be educated by those with the experience rather than educate them. [emoji87]

Truth is that juice that gets too hot is nasty no matter the gauge of kanthal, power applied or resistance. WE'RE HEATING MORE WIRE SO IT TAKES MORE POWER TO GET THE SAME SURFACE TEMP to atomize the liquid.

We don't think burnt hits and formaldehyde tastes any better than you do. As a matter of fact, you begrudging, belittling naysayers would love the flavor most of us are getting. It's intense and delicious.[emoji39]
 

WattWick

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Good point by beckdg,

I don't cloud chase, but I do vape in the 0.7-0.9 ohm range mostly. With my current setups, it gives a much cooler vaper than any clearo-like atty gave at twice, or even higher, resistance. Yet they produce more vapor. There are a few factors at play. Mainly wicking (liquid cooling), heat distribution and air flow.

The "formaldehyde experiment" is, as already pointed out in the original thread about it, is flawed. Noone would vape an atty that scorches liquids like that. It's a lab setup, not a real world scenario. They simply cranked up the voltage way beyond the point where any thin-wired clearo could keep up with wicking. The only thing they proved was that dry hits suck and may contain up to 10-30% as much formaldehyde as your average cigarette puff does.
 
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beckdg

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My point is that vaping over say 20 watts may prove to have some real health risk when it come to out respiratory system.

According to the stethoscope, o2 saturation and the fact that I can now breathe in the morning, walk up and down stares, etc. I'm going to say without a doubt that vaping 50mg juice @ 80 watts still allows the lungs and vascular system to recover from smoking.

That's my experience. Care to share yours so we can learn something?
 

beckdg

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The "formaldehyde experiment" is, as already pointed out in the original thread about it, is flawed. Noone would vape an atty that scorches liquids like that. It's a lab setup, not a real world scenario. They simply cranked up the voltage way beyond the point where any thin-wired clearo could keep up with wicking. The only thing they proved was that dry hits suck and may contain up to 10-30% as much formaldehyde as your average cigarette puff does.

Yep. Common sense would tell you that without smoke to mask that flavor nobody would vape at that temp. And as you point out its been covered. Yet it seems to come up or be alluded to in every "cloud chasers must are be bad m'kay" thread.

Learn people. Learn...
Don't let your ignorant assumptions define you and serve as a warning for onlookers.
 

Wow1420

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That being said. IF there are yet-to-be-proved carcinogenic flavorings or such in a liquid, I don't think there is any denying that increasing the dosage also increases the harm. Note the big "if".

We (most of us on ECF anyway) think vaping is safe based on what we know about inhaling VG, PG and nicotine, and the fact that there's no reports of harm to those who vaped when the norm was 3ml a day. The could chasers are now pushing the norm up towards 10ml or more a day. Should we be thanking them for voluntarily being research subjects on what inhaling much higher doses of flavoring does to the lungs?

Just kidding, sort of.
 
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