When they regulate it out of existence then it will be available on the "black market"
Why are Governments trying to BAN e-cigs when they are actually helping people!?
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I'm already spying some serious supply kits, and a chest freezer
Been there, done that. I could probably go for 10 years without spending a dime on vaping if I wanted to. BUT, just how does that help the folks that are still smoking, but might want to stop in the future?
Yeah, those guys are almost as bad as the ones who have to lump people into neatly titled little groups.
You mean like... ANTZ?
vaping only where smoking is permitted will mean I need to vape around the corner, two blocks down from where I work, not just outside. I vape and I smoked outside, in what I considered to be a respectful distance from a doorway. Still, what I did, and what I continue to do in NYC is illegal. The smoking bans for outside here are horrible, and to tie vaping into them, even worse. Best thing to do now though, is to get vaping untied from smoking. If others wish to continue to worry about the smoking bans for outside, fine, but I consider that a separate battle.
I will agree that the dangers of second hand smoke are probably grossly exagerated. Still, to claim it isn't dangerous is also incorrect. I'm not willing to stake my kids lives on exactly how dangerous it is, so I never smoked indoors and I never will, even if I go back to smoking. I don't expect other will want to stake their lives on it either, and I can respect that. Where it all crosses the line into zealotry is where it extends to vaping. No evidence should mean no laws until evidence of harm exists. Let them pay billions to scientists again. At the very least, if they want their bans, they should have to pay for it, not to mention give the other side a chance to study on their own.
I will agree that the dangers of second hand smoke are probably grossly exagerated. Still, to claim it isn't dangerous is also incorrect. I'm not willing to stake my kids lives on exactly how dangerous it is, so I never smoked indoors and I never will, even if I go back to smoking. I don't expect other will want to stake their lives on it either, and I can respect that. Where it all crosses the line into zealotry is where it extends to vaping. No evidence should mean no laws until evidence of harm exists. Let them pay billions to scientists again. At the very least, if they want their bans, they should have to pay for it, not to mention give the other side a chance to study on their own.
I think the idea of preventing future vapers the right to vape is horrible. I really do.
It's actually evil. Denying future vapers the opportunity will certainly sicken and kill many thousands.
Tapped out
Just some thoughts, I generally envision vaping gaining ground with the general public gradually over time as more and more smokers begin to visibly cure themselves. The thing is, almost every non-smoker has smoking loved ones that are probably suffering and destroying themselves with cigarettes. Years and years of this has fueled a general hatred of everything having to due with tobacco and smoking. At present, vaping often times looks to non-smokers like merely another nicotine delivery system that contributes to, or at least falls within the smoking paradigm. To the average non-smoker, it took decades to move smoking outdoors; and then all of a sudden, there are all these people blowing clouds indoors again, even in places like movie theaters. This is causing a knee-jerk reaction. But as more loved ones take up vaping and start curring themselves, more and more non-smokers are going to be thrilled. And vaping will get the credit.
Several members of my family work in the healthcare industry, and they all strongly feel that vaping is "helping lots and lots of smokers get free." Honestly, when I was about to give up on vaping, it was statements like this from non-smokers in my family that encouraged me to reconsider vaping. Seriously, we just put one brother-in-law in the ground at 46 years old due to smoking, another brother-in-law has survived his first heart attack in his 40s and cannot quit smoking, his father survived his heart attach in his 60s and still cannot stop smoking, and the list goes on. Every time one of these events happens, it is all the non-smokers in the family that plead with the smokers to give vaping a try. I think this will spread, and it just takes some time.
Several members of my family work in the healthcare industry, and they all strongly feel that vaping is "helping lots and lots of smokers get free." Honestly, when I was about to give up on vaping, it was statements like this from non-smokers in my family that encouraged me to reconsider vaping. Seriously, we just put one brother-in-law in the ground at 46 years old due to smoking, another brother-in-law has survived his first heart attack in his 40s and cannot quit smoking, his father survived his heart attach in his 60s and still cannot stop smoking, and the list goes on. Every time one of these events happens, it is all the non-smokers in the family that plead with the smokers to give vaping a try. I think this will spread, and it just takes some time.
My school (a community college) has a ban on eCigs (indoor and out) A good friend of mine (and vapor) gave a speech to the board explaining it is a great way to cut back on smoking cigarette. Still no word if they changed their mind
If they don't want vaping indoors, I say fine. But the outdoors business is just crossing the line. It is difficult to understand where they think they have any leg to stand on banning vaping outdoors. If anything, they should be welcoming outdoor vaping, at least in designated areas. Next time I happen to be in a college car park, I will definitely have a smoke or a vape while standing next to my parked car, simply because that is the least offensive area to do so thanks to their draconian "rules" (not laws). If I get attacked by a bunch of security guards, then we can take it up in front of a judge.
Their main argument was the 'hemp oil' argument. The president of the college actually suggested that .... could be smoked out of it. When I heard this, I thought, well you dont have much faith in your students! Drugs can be smoked out of pretty much anything. It makes me sick that eCigs are becoming a scapegoat for all kinds of arguments.
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I will upload a copy of the meeting outline, it contains details the meeting that were added afterwards
***AMENDED****
I will upload a copy of the meeting outline, it contains details the meeting that were added afterwards
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Well, I was wondering when this hemp business would come up. It will be difficult to combat this argument when other people are actually using PVs in that manner. Just check it out online.
It bothered me because it is the 'few people ruin it for everyone' its a stereotype. Yes vaporizers have pretty much always been used for ........., but now people are using them for a alternative to smoking. And I will argue with anyone that says it is just as dangerous, because there is no tar lol.
I suppose they'll also have to ban chocolate chip cookies, too, because someone might spike-em with 'something.'
They will just tell you how many chocolate chips you can put in there.
It is a Sad, but Valuable, Lesson that you just Learned.
That 99 People can use something for a Good Purpose, but as soon as 1 Person uses the Same Thing for a Bad Purpose, a Bad Light is Cast on All 100.
I certainly agree with this. We all should consider ourselves ambassadors to the world. I may choose to vape differently than you, Zoid, and that is fine. I may press the issue in some gray areas, and you choose not to. We each have a method that suits our location, mannerisms, personality, etc. My way is no better than yours.
Are there risks to "pressing the issue"? You bet. Are there rewards? I think there are.
I have converted quite a few smokers to vaping. My choice to vape in gray areas has started many a conversation. I usually carry a couple of twists with evods on them to give away, and get someone started on their vaping journey. Vaping has changed my life, and made it better. I am healthier and happier. I owe it to smokers everywhere to expose them to this Tobacco Harm Reduction technique. I don't think I am too good to vape in smoking areas, because it is a great place to meet potential converts. But I also like to vape in non-smoking areas to show (and enjoy) the fruits of vaping. I have been asked to stop perhaps a half-dozen times in areas. When I am asked, I generally comply immediately. The notable exception was in an outdoor courtyard at a local mall....but that is a long story not for this post.
Now the way I see it, our best weapon as vapers is numbers. The more of us there are vaping, the more difficult it is to lay down unreasonable regulations, and the louder a voice of opposition we will have during the public comment period when the deeming regulations are announced.
The ANTZ exist, and they are coming to stop our habit. Pretending they are not real, or that people that talk about them are conspiracy theorists, or that they just want reasonable regulation won't make them go away. I believe in my heart that there is no appeasing this sort. We will either defeat them or be defeated. You can disagree with me on this, and I could well be wrong. But look at the smoking bans, how they progressed, and what smokers going along with the bans did for them. I don't "know" the right way to proceed, but I know quiet acquiescence is not a winning play. It got smokers pigeon-holed into where they are today. Is there a danger from coming off like militant, crazed fanatics? Yeah, but I believe coming across as docile is just as dangerous.
Zoid, I am not implying that you (or any other poster) has been docile, I am only sharing my philosophy of this matter.
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
You kind of answered your own question when you opened the thread. The simple answer, is follow the money.
I do believe that Big Tobacco is running scared right now. They've spent years and countless dollars researching how to keep smokers addicted to their products. I've worked in a business environment and I can tell you that while new customers are great, it's REPEAT customers that form the backbone of any business venture.
But I also think that there's something deeper going on here. I don't want to start something that might turn inflammatory, so I will just say that those in power are typically scared of those they rule. They have given us the illusion of freedom even as they continue to take away our rights. We still have freedom of choice per se, but it comes down to whether we choose to spend a little money here, or a lot of money elsewhere. Do this or suffer these consequences. Jobs have been exported, the economy's been in the tank for some time now, and overall, the political situation is just a big fat mess.
Vaping, or the subject of it, is but one piece in a long chain of things that have been going on behind the scenes for years. The best you can hope to do is to educate yourself on what's going on around you, remain observant, rather than just coasting through your daily life. This is what gives you any real power. Being knowledgeable about what concerns you.
But, even if you take out all of the so-called government conspiracies, the big corporations that lobby the politicians, there's still good old fashioned human behavior to think about.
Consider this:
I read a post here about someone who got fired for vaping outside of the building where he worked. A woman walked up to him and asked him a few questions. Within five minutes she was seen talking to another group of people. A few minutes later, he was jobless.
People are who they are. Some just like to cause trouble, either because they misunderstand something you're doing, or they just enjoy causing misery and pain for others. Learning to study human body language and behavior, even on a basic level, looking for cues, can often give you huge insight into a person's personality and intentions without even talking to them.
For what it's worth
I do believe that Big Tobacco is running scared right now. They've spent years and countless dollars researching how to keep smokers addicted to their products. I've worked in a business environment and I can tell you that while new customers are great, it's REPEAT customers that form the backbone of any business venture.
But I also think that there's something deeper going on here. I don't want to start something that might turn inflammatory, so I will just say that those in power are typically scared of those they rule. They have given us the illusion of freedom even as they continue to take away our rights. We still have freedom of choice per se, but it comes down to whether we choose to spend a little money here, or a lot of money elsewhere. Do this or suffer these consequences. Jobs have been exported, the economy's been in the tank for some time now, and overall, the political situation is just a big fat mess.
Vaping, or the subject of it, is but one piece in a long chain of things that have been going on behind the scenes for years. The best you can hope to do is to educate yourself on what's going on around you, remain observant, rather than just coasting through your daily life. This is what gives you any real power. Being knowledgeable about what concerns you.
But, even if you take out all of the so-called government conspiracies, the big corporations that lobby the politicians, there's still good old fashioned human behavior to think about.
Consider this:
I read a post here about someone who got fired for vaping outside of the building where he worked. A woman walked up to him and asked him a few questions. Within five minutes she was seen talking to another group of people. A few minutes later, he was jobless.
People are who they are. Some just like to cause trouble, either because they misunderstand something you're doing, or they just enjoy causing misery and pain for others. Learning to study human body language and behavior, even on a basic level, looking for cues, can often give you huge insight into a person's personality and intentions without even talking to them.
For what it's worth
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