Why are vendors asking for customers to send the metal Grooves back?

[Kentucky_Josh]

Ever since the Grooves have been recalled I've been hearing that there are vendors asking for customers to ship them back. Why would you want them back if you are getting credit from Smoktech for them by either getting money credit or a replacement device?

If vendors are asking for customers to ship a grove back it seems to me that they are asking for trouble. Could you image if someone shipped a groove back to a vendor and it shorted out in transit? That would be another black eye for the vaping community and could even get to the point that shipping vape equipment with batteries to be banned.

I've watched alot of video's on the problems with the Groove shorting out because of this or that reason. I've noticed that most of the information says that its the 2 middle screws on each side that is making the batteries short out and vent. Venting of a device is dangerous and can be mistaken as something more in the lines of a bomb or terrorism. I wouldn't suggest anyone to ship a groove back to a vendor without somehow totally discharging the battery, neutralizing the battery or just taking it apart and disconnecting the battery. Heck it would even be safer to just take the screws out and tape it closed.

We don't need a incident like a mod venting, causing a fire, causing a suspected act of terrorism, etc..

I'm not a pro on this but it just seems to be common sense and this is only the way I feel about what is going on!!
youtube video that shows the groove and a major problemChrome Groove by Smoktech - RECALL - Potentially Dangerous - YouTube

My blog
The Grooves and my thoughts on them. Why are vendors asking for them back? - Vaping Deals n Discounts

 

[Baditude]

In order to receive credit from the supplier, many vendors are required to return the merchandise back to them. This is common practice and not at all out of the ordinary.

One would hope that anyone returning a re-called and potentially defective device, would first remove the batteries. Removing the batteries would interrupt any electrical circuit so that any hard short would be impossible. And having no atomizer attached to the battery device also incompletes the electrical circuit.

You're making a mountain out of a mole hill, my friend. Peace.

 

[Thrasher]

the same could be said about any device with batteries that gets recalled. phones. laptops etc. it would look worse if a manufacturer didnt ask you to send them back. then they could say
"see? the venders dont even care if they sell dangerous products!!! regulation!!!!!!"

 

[SASmith]

Perhaps they think it would be better if they are returned so that people do not continue to use them or pass them on to someone who doesn't know about this problem. I am not familiar with this device but I am assuming the batteries can be removed prior to shipping, usually when an item I have purchased is shipped the batteries are not installed. It's just probably safer to have them returned and out of the marketplace. You do have a point though, hopefully the vendors are instructing people to remove the batteries first.

 

[Wow1420]

The only good reason I can think of is to be certain that people stop using them.

If they can be opened easily, removing the battery seems like the best thing to do.

 

[onry]

some where in one of the recall threads i think i read that it said not to dismantle the groove but to soak it in a brine solution or sea water for an hour
to make sure it was non functional.

 

[kiwivap]

Well said OP - this is not making a mountain out of a molehill. Some people need to familiarize themselves with the product and the nature of the defect before telling people to just remove the battery.
The Groove does not come with a removeable battery - it is stuck into the mod. To get to the battery means literally breaking open the plastic groove - because of the nature of the defect this in itself can be enough to cause the battery to thermally vent. In the metal Grooves a jolt or a knock is enough to cause the problem - as was evidence when a brand new Groove fell 3 feet onto carpet and went into thermal venting. Story and photos here:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/apv-discussion/427656-please-read.html

Here's a video which helps explain the flaw in a metal groove:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvIH92L4NAM

In plastic grooves the battery covering is thin and inadequate and if exposed can be punctured too easily also.

In an attempt to remove the batteries it is possible to puncture the battery and have the battery go thermal - because of the way it is positioned in the metal groove, and the inadequate cover in both the metal and the plastic grooves.

This is not like any other battery that gets sent back in - each case needs to be looked at.
Its also not clear that Smoktech do require the grooves returned to them - my vendor has advised it doesn't need to be returned. Smoktech have advised distributors to destroy the Grooves - so they aren't asking for them back before credit can be applied.
If you don't know what you are talking about here please leave it - these are very risky devices. It makes more sense to not take the risk of posting them in the mail - unless they are disabled properly.
I own one of these, and I'm not cracking apart the mod to try and get at the battery. Also - at least one vendor has said they will not accept returned grooves with no batteries or disabled batteries - which is really not sensible as far as I can see.

From Smoktech:
"Suggested Disposal Way:
To end users:

1do not throw or slap the groove battery
2)do not disassemble the groove battery
3)do not hide or drop the groove battery
4)take the battery to local distributors"

Bold added by me. Doesn't make sense that a battery that shouldn't be thrown, dropped or "slapped' should get sent through the postal service.
Really doesn't make sense that some vendors won't allow the complete unit to be returned if the owner soaks it in salt water first.
And really not worth the risk of a thermal vent because the postal service tossed it into a van or dropped it, or to have it explode in a plane.

 

[ch2468]

Has anyone cracked theirs open and actually found spark/burn marks? A few thermal events aside, unless I can see one sparking, I'm still not sold on where the fault lies.

 

[kiwivap]

Has anyone cracked theirs open and actually found spark/burn marks? A few thermal events aside, unless I can see one sparking, I'm still not sold on where the fault lies.

He didn't have to crack it open to see:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/apv-discussion/427656-please-read.html
Plenty of burn marks there. He's not the only one who has reported an incident like this btw.
If you don't see why metal puncturing a battery cover is dangerous, or why this is where the fault lies, then I suggest reading up on battery info. Standard battery safety is to ensure that doesn't happen.
Which is why this reviewer said hers was going to be soaked and then disposed of:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvIH92L4NAM

 

[ch2468]

He didn't have to crack it open to see:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/apv-discussion/427656-please-read.html

Which is an after-the-fact claim. There will be no way to take that one apart and find out where it started, unless you do a NTSB-like fault analysis. What I want to see is a working unit with burn marks on the inside.

And don't me started on the theory of electrical shorts and puncturing batteries. I'm fairly versed in electronics.

 

[kiwivap]

Which is an after-the-fact claim. There will be no way to take that one apart and find out where it started, unless you do a NTSB-like fault analysis. What I want to see is a working unit with burn marks on the inside.

And don't me started on the theory of electrical shorts and puncturing batteries. I'm fairly versed in electronics.

Well I think the bigger issue here is that it was brand new, fell 3 feet onto carpet, and went into thermal vent.
The second thing is that the manufacturer - Smoktech - have examined their own product now, and they have concluded that it is the issue - after clarification with vendors they have advised that the issues are:
1. A design flaw in the metal Grooves allowed the battery to become loose and possibly have its outer soft shell pierced by the retaining screws for the Groove case. If the battery moved around or was shaken, it could be pierced by the very tiny point of the cover screws and cause a short in the battery.
2. At the battery level, there is nothing to stop a battery discharging due to a short.

The people who have looked into it know what they are seeing. You didn't issue the recall. They did. I'm going with what's known.

 

[SissySpike]

Which is an after-the-fact claim. There will be no way to take that one apart and find out where it started, unless you do a NTSB-like fault analysis. What I want to see is a working unit with burn marks on the inside.

And don't me started on the theory of electrical shorts and puncturing batteries. I'm fairly versed in electronics.

Dose it really matter where the fault lies? Smokteck is recalling them I doubt they would do this just for the fun of it.

 

[ch2468]

Dose it really matter where the fault lies? Smokteck is recalling them I doubt they would do this just for the fun of it.

It does for the plastic owners, if they like their device and don't understand why SMOKtech wants them back. A few ECF'ers have already stated that they won't be sending their plastics back.

But rather than continue posting in these threads, I think I'll just leave you guys to send your stuff back for replacement.

 

[kiwivap]

It does for the plastic owners, if they like their device and don't understand why SMOKtech wants them back. A few ECF'ers have already stated that they won't be sending their plastics back.

But rather than continue posting in these threads, I think I'll just leave you guys to send your stuff back for replacement.

So you said on the other thread. And if you have followed these threads you'd know that the plastic grooves are also flawed - they do not have adequate protection at the battery level if there is a short. So there's that info again for the plastic groove owners, and it is possible some missed that info.
I'm not sending my plastic groove back - but I am going to have it safely disposed of.
I really think its more important to consider what is going to be safest here rather than go back and forth because you haven't personally seen a burnt groove, or even a groove at all from the sounds of it. And you seem to expect we should ignore obvious safety issues and info, even from Smoktech, when dealing with the mod. The mod is unsafe, and just a bump or jolt can cause thermal venting in the metal ones.

 

[ch2468]

rather than go back and forth because you haven't personally seen a burnt groove, or even a groove at all from the sounds of it. And you seem to expect we should ignore obvious safety issues and info, even from Smoktech, when dealing with the mod. The mod is unsafe, and just a bump or jolt can cause thermal venting in the metal ones.

I know I said I was done replying to these threads, but first you insult my intelligence, and now you're suggesting that I don't know anything about vaping outside of my current device of choice. I don't know what your problem is with me, but I feel that you're just mad that I'm not jumping on the SMOKtech hate wagon.

 

[kiwivap]

I know I said I was done replying to these threads, but first you insult my intelligence, and now you're suggesting that I don't know anything about vaping outside of my current device of choice. I don't know what your problem is with me, but I feel that you're just mad that I'm not jumping on the SMOKtech hate wagon.

I haven't said that, and I'm not mad. You may want to consider how you come across here. I haven't expressed any hate toward Smoktech either - I have several times mentioned that they themselves have identified the flaws with the Groove - the metal screws puncturing the battery casing which can cause serious thermal venting, and also the lack of protection at the battery level to prevent discharging from a short. They are the ones who issued the recall. Its a safety issue to send something so vulnerable that can malfunction in the post just from being knocked or dropped. I own a Groove and I want to minimise the risk for myself and other owners. That's the issue here.
The thread is questioning vendors wanting metal grooves sent back through the post, which in some cases will mean they also go by airmail. Considering the obvious risk I agree with the OP that its not a good idea.

 

[grandmato5]

the same could be said about any device with batteries that gets recalled. phones. laptops etc. it would look worse if a manufacturer didnt ask you to send them back. then they could say
"see? the venders dont even care if they sell dangerous products!!! regulation!!!!!!"

There's a big difference between returning a defective phone or laptop with a potential problem of its battery venting and returning a Groove through the USPS. You can easily remove the battery in a phone or laptop before returning the item. If a laptop or phone was recalled for the same reason the Groove as been recalled the only safe way to return it would be to remove the battery and ONLY return the devise which could easily and safely be done. The Groove doesn't come with an easily removeable battery.

Under normal circumstances it is normal procedure for a product that has been recalled to be returned to the vendor or manufacturer before a replacement or refund is given. BUT ONLY if it can safely be returned and the nature of the defect that has been found in the Groove makes that impossible IF simply returned "as is". As its been pointed out already on this thread, there is possible danger in attempting to remove the battery that is in the Groove.

For the safety of those transporting the Groove back to the vendor AND the reputation of vaping which does NOT need bad publicity if something goes wrong while its been returned, please do not send your Groove "as is" through a shipping company. If you've purchased through the internet you have a record of your purchase which could be used to verify your ownership in order to get your refund.

 

[retird]

I know I said I was done replying to these threads, but first you insult my intelligence, and now you're suggesting that I don't know anything about vaping outside of my current device of choice. I don't know what your problem is with me, but I feel that you're just mad that I'm not jumping on the SMOKtech hate wagon.

ch2468.......I sent you a PM and will be sending another shortly....

 

[kiwivap]

For the safety of those transporting the Groove back to the vendor AND the reputation of vaping which does NOT need bad publicity if something goes wrong while its been returned, please do not send your Groove "as is" through a shipping company. If you've purchased through the internet you have a record of your purchase which could be used to verify your ownership in order to get your refund.

Agreed. I think its the best way to go. We are being put in a difficult position with this issue.

 

[SissySpike]

SOAK THEM IN SALT WATER! It neutralizes the battery.