Why aren't genesis-style atomizers more popular?

[Asbestos4004]

mesh has better flavor and it wicked very well vertically. Cotton wasn't really an option back then. It was all silica or mesh. Genny purists still frown on those of us who use cotton. I'd agree that a genesis built PROPERLY with mesh blows away a good cotton build in flavor. But, I need to be in the mood to tinker to mess with it. Cotton gets an A from me...mesh gets an A+

 

[Troll from behind]

That tinkering part is the main reason mesh is getting obsolete.
Why to tinker when you can get more or less the same result far easier, or God forbid, by buying a CLEAROMIZER?


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[PaulBHC]

You can plug the deck holes in a gennie and lay the wick on the deck and use it as a dripper. The difference between the two is the wick hole going down into the tank.

Plenty of people that use gennies use cotton or rayon wick but purists use mesh.

 

[Thrasher]

Well there's a bit of timeline needed when the first concept of genesis arrived it was designed around the mesh wick.even the way the deck was first made would have been a problem for a soft wick, Was just a new way. There was no cotton wicks and no such thing as a microcoil the best thing going was A clearomizer, I think maybe the bulli dripper was around and that was it.
At this time VW mods didn't even exist and 25 watts on a mech was considered extreme. So the concept was how do we get maximum flavor, nicotine and vapor with no power.


Now there are a few genesis "style" tanks made just for soft wick, and the new petar k Atty has a deck almost like a squape with the same geni tank underneath.

the kayfun style made it easier for even beginners to get decent flavor and a large juice reserve with very little effort. Once the Kayfun actually came over from Europe/Russia it gained a much larger audience as it was one of the few rebuildables being mass produced. And up until that point GG attys were available but extremely difficult to get for most people and you had to deal with r-nr wires

At the same time the China clone empire just started rolling. For the first time drippers were available to the masses for cheap. Up to that point rebuildables was expensive. Then they attacked the Kayfun and suddenly with a 150 dollar price drop they started to take over, now you have a sealed tank that is finally pocket friendly and can be laid down, or even turned upside down

While all of this was happening the genesis started to get ignored. Then came the power mods and huge subohm coils. Pushing the geni even further in the back of the class. With the geni basically in the shadows, waves of new vapors came on the scene to drippers and bottom feed tanks everywhere.so that's all they know or wanted to use. Leaving the genesis out of the picture for everyone but the purists.

Now you go to sites like vapist, mark bugs, art of exhale, docdave and several other high end gear dealers or producers you find they never stopped making them or having issues selling them.

I been trying to get a hydra for over a year close to two. By the time I read the email they are sold out.and I love my atmomixani hybrid. For work I use a Kayfun though and when I get on an unflavored kick I use drippers.

 

[puddinman]

Great, another avenue to explore in chasing flavor...sounds like fun!

 

[Thrasher]

 

[NealBJr]

Very interesting stuff. I've thought of another question, maybe a better question, more direct to the answer im looking for. Why are mesh wick so tightly "entrenched" with genesis atties? if the difficulty of the wicking and coiling is what's keeping people away from gennies, why is it not more popular to use cotton and build it the same way as a dripper. (for that matter, why are the decks different? )

I went from CE5's (clearomizer) to an AGA-T geni, back to a fogger V4 and now subtank.. those were my mains. The CE5's and the AGA-T both had the juice on the bottom. I never could get the mesh part down, and I am... to this day.. trying to get mesh to work and taste good.

The main problem with Genesis tanks, is it has to wick upwards or you have to do a "tilt". With a a genesis, you have to have the wick draw the juice up the wick.. once it's saturated, it can then fire and produce good flavor. If the wick doesn't wick the juice fast enough, you end up with dry hits (as in my case). There is a fine line between wick looseness, coil power, and juice thickness.

When the AGA-T was my main, I tried the mesh.. I oxidized the mesh several times, didn't work.. took it out, took a blow torch, burned the juice off.. still shorted. I pulsed it...nothing worked. I always had a hot leg by the positive side, and the rest of the coil never did get red. I had to go to silica. I made a silica U-wick and did a loose knot at the top and a horizontal coil... it worked and worked well for that time. I took it to a vape shop a few months ago with that setup, and I asked the pro what he thought before he saw or knew of the coil... He was impressed, at the flavor, but still tasted the silica. I bought some mesh last month and will give it another go one day.. but I doubt it'll work.. I've switched to an almost pure VG mixture.

Cotton is good for holding juice, but it doesn't move the liquid very fast or far. That's one reason it hasn't been used in many other clearomizers. Recently, the new tanks use cotton, which is no longer than 1/2 an inch.. so the juice doesn't have to travel far to get to the coil. In my fogger V4 RTA, It also has a short wick. I think the fibers of cotton are too loose. I have some cotton yarn, and even that doesn't wick as good as silica or mesh. However, in my drippers, I find nothing better to hold juice than loose cotton. It also expands to touch the inside of the whole coil. With mesh or silica, it's a bit too rigid, and there's a slight bit of a gap.

Lastly, genies tend to leak. Let's say you have a wick thrust down there, and it draws some liquid up.. what replaces the juice? it either has to create a slight vacuum, or there is another hole somewhere to let the hole in. If there's a vacuum, it will hinder the wicking process. If there's a hole, then juice will leak form the hole if it is on it's side. either way, it's not a perfect setup. In my AGA-T, I would leave the fill screw out.. and just never tip it on it's side... made me find new places to put my mod when I was out and about.

hope this helps some.

 

[Thrasher]

I went from CE5's (clearomizer) to an AGA-T geni, back to a fogger V4 and now subtank.. those were my mains. The CE5's and the AGA-T both had the juice on the bottom. I never could get the mesh part down, and I am... to this day.. trying to get mesh to work and taste good.

The main problem with Genesis tanks, is it has to wick upwards or you have to do a "tilt". With a a genesis, you have to have the wick draw the juice up the wick.. once it's saturated, it can then fire and produce good flavor. If the wick doesn't wick the juice fast enough, you end up with dry hits (as in my case). There is a fine line between wick looseness, coil power, and juice thickness.

When the AGA-T was my main, I tried the mesh.. I oxidized the mesh several times, didn't work.. took it out, took a blow torch, burned the juice off.. still shorted. I pulsed it...nothing worked. I always had a hot leg by the positive side, and the rest of the coil never did get red. I had to go to silica. I made a silica U-wick and did a loose knot at the top and a horizontal coil... it worked and worked well for that time. I took it to a vape shop a few months ago with that setup, and I asked the pro what he thought before he saw or knew of the coil... He was impressed, at the flavor, but still tasted the silica. I bought some mesh last month and will give it another go one day.. but I doubt it'll work.. I've switched to an almost pure VG mixture.

Cotton is good for holding juice, but it doesn't move the liquid very fast or far. That's one reason it hasn't been used in many other clearomizers. Recently, the new tanks use cotton, which is no longer than 1/2 an inch.. so the juice doesn't have to travel far to get to the coil. In my fogger V4 RTA, It also has a short wick. I think the fibers of cotton are too loose. I have some cotton yarn, and even that doesn't wick as good as silica or mesh. However, in my drippers, I find nothing better to hold juice than loose cotton. It also expands to touch the inside of the whole coil. With mesh or silica, it's a bit too rigid, and there's a slight bit of a gap.

Lastly, genies tend to leak. Let's say you have a wick thrust down there, and it draws some liquid up.. what replaces the juice? it either has to create a slight vacuum, or there is another hole somewhere to let the hole in. If there's a vacuum, it will hinder the wicking process. If there's a hole, then juice will leak form the hole if it is on it's side. either way, it's not a perfect setup. In my AGA-T, I would leave the fill screw out.. and just never tip it on it's side... made me find new places to put my mod when I was out and about.

hope this helps some.

So ya kinda don't feel too bad I know some of the aga's are a real pain to set up.they drove a lot of people crazy. Chinas second attempt, the rsst works much better.

This is a perfect example of another issue- when they design them wickhole and posts have to be properly spaced.

I use what's called the pulse method look it up on YouTube there's an older chick in a short video shows a real easy way to do it.

 

[NealBJr]

So ya kinda don't feel too bad I know some of the aga's are a real pain to set up.

I use what's called the pulse method look it up on YouTube there's an older chick in a short video shows a real easy way to do it.

I've tried that.. Pulsed a sony VTC for about 2 hours until the battery was half dead on a dry mesh screen. It never got red below half the coil. that's after I had about 4 coils break from shorts.

My AGA-T2 is authentic. I also tried an I-atty... still a no go.

 

[Troll from behind]

The only way to get AGA-T2 to work was with spacers at the plus-pole.
EVEN then it was too tight draw causing easily flooding.
It could be done, but the stars had to aligned right.
For me ss cable made gennies way easier to work with.


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[Thrasher]

The only way to get AGA-T2 to work was with spacers at the plus-pole.
EVEN then it was too tight draw causing easily flooding.
It could be done, but the stars had to aligned right.
For me ss cable made gennies way easier to work with.


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Yea, as the very first Chinese designed geni they missed on the pole spacing in the aga, and it was also known the center post moved when you screwed it onto a mod causing coil tension to change.

When a coil doesn't glow evenly you have to take a pin or needle, screwdriver, etc and poke at the wraps. This usually Indicates the coilspacing or coil tension is a little off. As you poke them and pulse you can see more of them start to glow

Also when using a properly designed model, and you have some experience the tinkering part really isn't bad, I wrap, pulse poke if needed, fill and vape, 15 min max in most cases.

Witch Scott Bonner reviews, he does it in like 5 min and he wraps the coil with the wick in the Atty already.

The kraken with duals has enough air to do a slower light lung inhale. But its not going to be wide open like a subtank.

 

[alex jo f]

Well for what it's worth I think there's money to be made in the "genny/rda" hybrid sector. Maybe I just need to try the tighter restriction for a while. Seems like that's where the flavor is.

 

[dnezarmichael]

I think it has to do with the fact that most folks are not technical enough to tweak them to perfection, that and there is the whole "what everyone else is doing" effect.

 

[Thrasher]

Well for what it's worth I think there's money to be made in the "genny/rda" hybrid sector. Maybe I just need to try the tighter restriction for a while. Seems like that's where the flavor is.

And your right there are a few now, and I'm sure others are watching to see how they sell

I think it has to do with the fact that most folks are not technical enough to tweak them to perfection, that and there is the whole "what everyone else is doing" effect.

This has always been #1 on the list. Its been said a million times - hardest to master greatest reward. When I started I went through a lot of wick and wire. Wanted to throw the thing down the street., put it on a shelf and there it sat laughing at me. But I said BS tons of people are doing this I'm going to figure it out

When I have time this week I'll make a quick video showing how easy it is now that I have experience.

 

[jseah]

When I purchased my Gennie, the owner of the B&M I bought it from built a vertical nickel coil for it for me. Works fine, but driving home I had the mod sitting in the other seat in my car and it fell over. By the time I noticed it, a couple of ml of juice had leaked out all over my seat. It vapes nice, but any decent tank today (i.e. Subtank, Atlantis, et al) will vape just as well.

 

[Thrasher]

When I purchased my Gennie, the owner of the B&M I bought it from built a vertical nickel coil for it for me. Works fine, but driving home I had the mod sitting in the other seat in my car and it fell over. By the time I noticed it, a couple of ml of juice had leaked out all over my seat. It vapes nice, but any decent tank today (i.e. Subtank, Atlantis, et al) will vape just as well.

I've tried these giant clearo's they just don't match the flavor to me. I always get the arguments- but my dripper can, but my tank can.......... Then I tell these folks, yea, but can it with 5 simple wraps of wire at 15 watts? Or do you need power/extreme coil builds?.

Its a preference thing, I won't lie I got cloud setups, really want a Goliath or cthulhu to play with. But sitting back relaxing with the mega and I go damn that tastes soooooo good .

 

[DaveSignal]

I think drippers are much more convenient. I can change flavors on a whim. If I don't overdrip and vape the juice that I dripped in there before putting it in my pocket, I don't have to worry about it leaking, because the rest of my juice is in a bottle. I can fit alternate top caps for wider bore. I have more room to build.

IMHO, an RDA is faster, simpler, easier to build, and has much greater flavor and vapor. And this is why drippers are king (instead of RTAs).

 

[Thrasher]

I think drippers are much more convenient. I can change flavors on a whim. If I don't overdrip and vape the juice that I dripped in there before putting it in my pocket, I don't have to worry about it leaking, because the rest of my juice is in a bottle. I can fit alternate top caps for wider bore. I have more room to build.

IMHO, an RDA is faster, simpler, easier to build, and has much greater flavor and vapor. And this is why drippers are king (instead of RTAs).

Yea, except for the fact 90% of everyone is using a subtank style now.

 

[Baditude]

My first rebuildable experience was with a Genesis-style tank (AGA-T). In hindsight, that was probably the worse tank for a beginner to learn on. I never could get the stainless steel mesh right, and had to buy pre-rolled mesh wicks. It leaked when on its side, so it had to stay home. Having to tilt the tank to get it to wick against gravity sucked. I put it away for several months out of frustration. I've since rebuilt it and had better results from my added knowledge and improved skills, but I still much prefer my Kayfun and RDA over the Genny. They're just too problematic IMHO.

Genesis-style AGA-T on Provaris

I eventually got a Kayfun-style tank, and it was so much easier to build and vape, and it didn't leak when laid down on its side, so it was the near perfect out-and-about rebuildable tank. The only downsides (and they are minor to me) compared to a RDA were the tighter draw and having to fill it with a needle/syringe (the AGA-T required a needle/syringe to fill too).

For someone new to RBA's, I still believe an inexpensive dripper is best to learn all the knowledge and skills. If wanting a rebuildable tank, a Kayfun-style tank is a better choice than a Genny. That's my

Information Resources for Your First RBA

 

[nyiddle]

Ahhhh... Genesis tanks. I don't really know anyone that uses them still. They were usually kind of difficult to build on, and often didn't have much in the way of airflow options or anything like that.

I used a Genny tank in "lazy dripper" mode (flip the mod over, juice from the tank soaks the wicks), and that was pretty cool for a while. It was really problematic getting dry hits in that thing though, and sometimes if your wick got jostled you'd flip your mod to drip and just dump juice all over your pants.