Why do vapers expect to be treated differently than smokers?

[DC2]

I'd like to run a poll and find out how many people in this thread would agree with the following statement...
If someone is offended by the look of something that someone else is doing, then the person doing that thing should stop doing it.

I would like to think no one would agree with that, but this thread clearly shows I would be wrong.

Just wait until you see the list of things people do in public that offend my sensibilities.
There's quite a few things on that list that a lot of people wouldn't agree with.

 

[e-pipeman]

I'd like to run a poll and find out how many people in this thread would agree with the following statement...
If someone is offended by the look of something that someone else is doing, then the person doing that thing should stop doing it.

I would like to think no one would agree with that, but this thread clearly shows I would be wrong.

Just wait until you see the list of things people do in public that offend my sensibilities.
There's quite a few things on that list that a lot of people wouldn't agree with.

There's a good chap on this forum who runs with the signature "Just because you are offended doesn't mean that you're right". I want this tattooed across my eyes at the moment.

 

[balleronabudget]

Not many people realize what electric cigarette do and just assume smoke= bad.

 

[gg1965]

I suppose in the grand scheme vaping is basically still underground. The only people that really know much about it are the ones partaking. And it's very easy for the anti-smoke crowd to treat it like the only thing they know about- smoking. The flood of awareness is starting (for better or worse). Studies will be done. Big tobacco will blast the public with it as their product keep coming out. The grapevine will continue to work. And only 1 of 2 things will happen. It will be treated exactly like smoking or leeway lines will be drawn.

I agree with some points in this thread. Part of discretion is simple respect. If you vape in restaurants, movies, indoor sporting events, etc it will most certainly bother people regardless of "the truth". In crowded public places I will always respect those around me. Farting is 100% legal everywhere but if I have the chili dog nasties I'm certainly not going to crop dust the dining room of my favorite restaurant.

I think this pretty much sums it up...I completely agree.

 

[Super Lyndotron]

The way I figure it is...

For the past decade and a bit I've progressively become more and more secretive in public when it came to smoking normal cigarettes. Never indoors, rarely around non-smokers, and eventually not in my car cos I tired of the comments. I got used to it and to be honest it didn't bother me, because I knew smoking was unpleasant, and remember that before I took up the habit I used to detest the smell too. I adjusted and so when I smoked it was usually out-of-sight-out-of-mind.

I've carried that mentality/behaviour on with my lovely new vaping devices (and I'm less than a month old at this but very happy with the transition)... still not around people I don't know etc. *but!* all of my close friends, coworkers and family are hearing a non-stop diatribe from me extolling the virtues of these wonderful little devices. The best I can explain it to them is that I've stopped smoking for the first time in 16 yrs, I already feel better and am saving money, and they should totally bow at my feet, kneel before me or at least (and most likely) be supportive of my attempt to improve myself so markedly.

 

[Super Lyndotron]

So in addition to the above comment I do like showing it off to people I know, because I am kinda proud of it and let's be honest it is a zillion times more effective than the patches, gums, lozenges and I'll-fated abstinence attempts I've tried for the past decade.

 

[jc-teque]

I can see it both ways. I work for a company that doesn't allow us to use our PVs within the store. This isn't for safety reasons, it's purely for aesthetic reasons. It looks like smoking, so it can be off putting to people who don't know all of the information. Yes, it should be encouraged. Not everyone knows what we're up to though. Any kind of change, or stray from normal behavior, is typically frowned upon until it has reached positive mainstream status.

 

[Cann0n]

I was at a Wal-Mart of a Saturday evening, waiting in line. The lady in front of me in line at the register was wearing an anti-abortion t-shirt. The entire time we were in line, she was complaining about how crowded it was and how people need to "stop having babies"... Now, I'm not trying to start any beef being a new member here, but I felt like this version of a hypocritical attitude is overly damaging to society. Why would an anti-smoker hate on vapers? We are doing what they say, we aren't smoking! And my biggest pet peeve is when non-smokers preach about smokers need to quit and they have never taken a drag off a cancer-stick... They just don't know how difficult it is to walk away. But it's pretty easy to replace it with vaping.

 

[Linden]

Why do vapers expect to be treated differently than smokers?

Short answer: because it is our right to be treated differently from smokers.
This whole debate brings me in mind of Natural vs Legal rights. Natural rights are those principals upon which our Constitution and rule of law was founded. Natural Laws are as follows:

Life: everyone is entitled to live once they are created.
Liberty: everyone is entitled to do anything they want to so long as it doesn't conflict with the first right.
Estate: everyone is entitled to own all they create or gain through gift or trade so long as it doesn't conflict with the first two rights

Now, take a look at the Liberty component. In the example of cigarette smoking and the purported effects of second hand smoke upon others, you can argue that a smoker's liberty, or freedom to smoke, can be lawfully taken away while it conflicts with the natural entitlement of other's lives.

As for vapor, there is no evidence that it endangers the life of others. "But what if it does?" some may say. Well, as another poster has previously pointed out, it is incumbent upon the governing body to give reasonable cause for such laws. The governing body may not flippantly take away the Liberty of the citizen. I propose that any laws governing use of ecigs in public places at this point is not only premature but blatantly unconstitutional. The sad reality however, is that our citizens are themselves flippant about their own personal liberties.
The phrasing of the initial question can imply treatment by society in general (social norms) or by the government. If the latter, the response is that Vaping is *not* smoking and thus smoking laws CANNOT apply to the use of ecigs.

 

[DC2]

Why do vapers expect to be treated differently than smokers?

Short answer: because it is our right to be treated differently from smokers.
This whole debate brings me in mind of Natural vs Legal rights. Natural rights are those principals upon which our Constitution and rule of law was founded. Natural Laws are as follows:

Life: everyone is entitled to live once they are created.
Liberty: everyone is entitled to do anything they want to so long as it doesn't conflict with the first right.
Estate: everyone is entitled to own all they create or gain through gift or trade so long as it doesn't conflict with the first two rights

Now, take a look at the Liberty component. In the example of cigarette smoking and the purported effects of second hand smoke upon others, you can argue that a smoker's liberty, or freedom to smoke, can be lawfully taken away while it conflicts with the natural entitlement of other's lives.

As for vapor, there is no evidence that it endangers the life of others. "But what if it does?" some may say. Well, as another poster has previously pointed out, it is incumbent upon the governing body to give reasonable cause for such laws. The governing body may not flippantly take away the Liberty of the citizen. I propose that any laws governing use of ecigs in public places at this point is not only premature but blatantly unconstitutional. The sad reality however, is that our citizens are themselves flippant about their own personal liberties.
The phrasing of the initial question can imply treatment by society in general (social norms) or by the government. If the latter, the response is that Vaping is *not* smoking and thus smoking laws CANNOT apply to the use of ecigs.

That pretty much sums it up.

 

[CrimsonJack]

I think it would help if we could all just apply a little common sense and be cool about the whole thing. I work in restaurant that doubles as a bar and comedy club, and I see a lot of folks pulling out their PV's or whatever and start vaping away, then get confrontational when someone asks them what they are doing. Apply a little PR folks! The more huffy you get about it, the less likely the person you are dealing with is to hear you out, they might just need a little info to see things our way. The place I work at is fine with vaping, except during the show when they don't want clouds of vapor being blown up at the comedians, pretty reasonable I think. Whenever I'm at a bar or restaurant, I flag someone down, wave my e-cig, and say "Hey, is it cool if I use this in here?" Want to know how many times I've been told "No"? I haven't. I've had to explain to a couple people what the device was, but in a situation where the conversation started in a more positive place than them seeing a cloud of what looks like smoke and rushing over to investigate. The worst that can happen is they say you can't use it, and hey, you don't like it, you don't give them your business. Making a scene isn't going to change anything, but hitting them in the pocketbook just might.

 

[NovaVida]

~~ "Why do vapers expect to be treated differently than smokers?" ~~

Because, as I believe some others have stated, here, we are NOT smoking. And we ARE different (take that as you may).

~~ ... I see so much, "Our right to vape is in jeopardy," ~~

I would like to think that the majority of us who have turned to vaping are a responsible and respectful group. We do not want to see our ability to vape taken away from us because of (just to name a few):

1. Paranoid, anti smoking zealots campaigning against something they have not taken the time to learn about just to join a cause.
2. Vaping equipment/supplies end up being taxed out of reach because they can add to the tax revenue of cigarettes.
3. Those (whom I believe are few) that are assuming and disrespectful of those around them or the places they frequent.

I, for one, am very thankful to be off analogs and while my goal is to continually reduce the amount of nicotine my body craves, I am hoping to cut to zero nicotine. The emotional aspect, and ritual habits of smoking, have always been the most difficult for me to kick. Vaping allows me the pleasure and comfort of being able to pick up my e-cig when pondering a problem, on a long phone call or trip in my car, and vaping in my house in the dead of winter or heat of summer. I have no other (bad?) habits, and vaping is far less, dollar-wise, than smoking was, and many others could be (if I had them).

~~ "...as long as there isn't an outright ban we're still in pretty good shape." ~~

Let's not ignore the potential for a ban because some of us are still in good shape -- look at what some fellow vapers are looking at around the world. Taxing or even outlawing can follow and happen quickly.

May we all vape-on peacefully!

 

[NovaVida]

Super post, Jack. All of it.

Whenever I'm at a bar or restaurant, I flag someone down, wave my e-cig, and say "Hey, is it cool if I use this in here?" Want to know how many times I've been told "No"? I haven't.

Yep, I'll second that comment. I have not had one issue when asking, and as a matter of fact, I've ended up with a few people gathering around to ask about vaping and how it works.

We are our own best advocates.

 

[erisraven]

I vape everywhere I go, and have never gotten a bad reaction from anyone about it. Maybe I'm just lucky.

 

[DC2]

I am shocked at all the people saying they ask and get told it's okay most of the time, if not always.

I don't know if it's where I live, or the kinds of places I go...
But I am almost always told no when I ask.

In fact, I've practically stopped asking and now nearly everywhere feel like I am forced to stealth vape.

One place I know not to bother asking is Petco Park.
They already have a rule saying they WILL be treated the same as smoking.

And if I want to vape, I have to exit the entire ballpark, all the way outside the gates.

 

[Snicks]

Glad I don't like baseball! I have smoker friends that complain about petco park for the same reasons.

 

[e-pipeman]

I am shocked at all the people saying they ask and get told it's okay most of the time, if not always.

I don't know if it's where I live, or the kinds of places I go...
But I am almost always told no when I ask.

In fact, I've practically stopped asking and now nearly everywhere feel like I am forced to stealth vape.

One place I know not to bother asking is Petco Park.
They already have a rule saying they WILL be treated the same as smoking.

And if I want to vape, I have to exit the entire ballpark, all the way outside the gates.

Come to England - we're much more relaxed about it. Just ask the barman - if he's cool about it then you can vape for...England!

 

[23duncster23]

As others have mentioned, the biggest thing in my opinion is you gotta work on the PR. Let me people know what you're doing and educate them a little bit. Teach the bartender or business owner about vaping so they know and then the next vaper that comes in can ask and get told to go ahead and enjoy himself. If you're confrontational and the business owner is sure what you're doing and you're not willing to explain, its going to come off as suspicious and you're going to look like you're up to something illegal. Share the information and get the word out and be polite.

 

[coat]

I am shocked at all the people saying they ask and get told it's okay most of the time, if not always.

I don't know if it's where I live, or the kinds of places I go...
But I am almost always told no when I ask.

In fact, I've practically stopped asking and now nearly everywhere feel like I am forced to stealth vape.

One place I know not to bother asking is Petco Park.
They already have a rule saying they WILL be treated the same as smoking.

And if I want to vape, I have to exit the entire ballpark, all the way outside the gates.

People have told me they've been thrown out of citi field for vaping. I've never had an issue there, but I stealth vape there usually.

I vaped in a restaurant during lunch this afternoon. A few suspicious cops came up to me and starting asking questions. one tried to take my vamo but I told him I'd prefer he not touch until I explain how it works. Showed them all the settings, gave cards that explained how a PV works and showed them a labeled bottle of liquid with the ingredients. Two were smokers. They thanked me for the information and said they will buy kits soon.

It really upsets me when I hear people having issues with law enforcement. We are doing nothing wrong and they must be educated. People shouldn't be afraid to vape in places where it is legal, simply because they fear consequences. Be respectful, but remember your rights.

And this is a real issue. Two people today said their eGos were confiscated by cops who thought it was drug paraphernalia.

 

[Furt]

My main issue with being lumped in with other smokers is this: I stopped smoking and started vaping about 6 months ago officially, and with that comes a new goal of not being around other smokers while their smoking. the second hand smoke is a concern to me as much as it is with any other non-smoker, and if I get lumped in with them, I'll be forced to be around them just to vape. That completely defeats the purpose of vaping. I don't ever vape indoors mostly out of courtesy to others around me. To me, its the same as staring at my phone or playing music. There's a time and place for everything, and if I'm in a restaurant, I respect the waiters by keeping my VU in my pocket.