Why do vapers expect to be treated differently than smokers?

[Speedfreek]

No-one is suggesting that it's a good idea to behave rudely. However, that knife cuts both ways.

You'd be suprised how many folk are rude about it though. Some have a very elitist attitude and I don't like it

 

[e-pipeman]

You'd be suprised how many folk are rude about it though. Some have a very elitist attitude and I don't like it

Elitist? How?

 

[Lessifer]

While I agree with a lot of what the OP posted, they really ARE trying to take away our right to vape. There is currently a notice on the top of my page about the city of Pico Rivera proposing a ban on e-cigs sales and use. I don't vape in restaurants, movie theaters, etc. but if I lived in an apartment I sure as hell would want to vape there, and that's something that they're trying to ban as well. Legal restrictions without actual reasoning are a very slippery slope.

 

[ricks]

The only reason the government wants to ban vaping is because of all the tax dollars they are losing. Nothing else!

 

[InTheClouds]

The only reason the government wants to ban vaping is because of all the tax dollars they are losing. Nothing else!

Sadly, I have to agree with Ricks....

 

[StarDose]

So lets say that vaping a flavoring ingredient like cinnamon, if done for 20 years, is harmful to the vaper. You then extrapolate that if some random passer-by in a building lobby gets a wiff of it, they must also be damaged by that wiff. And based on this extrapolation, you believe that vaping should be treated the same as smoking. Yet well respected and noted experts in Public Health, have viewed the several studies on exhaled vapor, and concluded there is no harm to others by second hand vapor.

So, if I was a new, uninformed person on vaping reading this thread, I have to determine if the experts in Public Health with years of experience in analyzing research data are more likely to be correct or some people with no known expertise in this field, commenting on an internet forum, are correct.

And what constitutes a "sure thing" when it comes to a product's safety? 20 years of study?, 30 years of study? And which experts must give their "blessing", before a product is considered safe enough since the ones who have already weighted in are being "dismissed"?

I can understand the thought, that vaping certain flavor ingredients for years, might be harmful to the vaper and it would be nice to know if that is the case. I can't "stretch" that possibility to believing it will harm the casual passer-by. It's taking a small possiblity to it's illogical exteme.

On a side note I have no patience for idiots.

Back to it please read fully before responding to someone's post. You can believe whatever you like without proof that's your choice. I just stated the facts and did not say either way if it was or was not bad for the person vaping or the person walking by. We are the guinea pigs and will be the proof of what if any effects of long term vaping will be.

Someone also posted vaping doesn't smell which is possible if you have no flavor but there are some really bad smelling liquids. Trying Chocolate fudge brownie, tastes great but the smell to others is the opposite.

Vaping in public should really be about consideration of others. Sure other things other people do may smell allot worse but what does that have to do with what you do as a vaper? Its just like he jumped off a bridge so I can to kind of mentality. Vapers get a bad rep and will be harder to be accepted because of the ignorant who think they have a right to vape everywhere which is partially to blame on marketing.

Anyways ppl can do as they wish as will I if I notice ppl making me as a vaper look bad.

 

[serendipitee]

Since some of the research HAS determined that at least some forms of vaping do cause cell harm and cell death, I believe any debate here is pointless. Unless we are regulated to a single 'known safe' formula (read as basic flavorless medical dosage) then there is no argument anyone can make to justify putting non-vapers into harm's way by second hand vape.

What research? Always wise to consider the source which is difficult when none is named. Do you have links?
Thanks.

 

[serendipitee]

There is a thread here on ECF linking to the FlavourArt research. Some flavor ingredients are not 'perfectly safe' like all the claims I read hear.

So, my point was/is, unless ingredients were strictly regulated (medical dosage controlled by Big Brother) any arguments to allow WHATEVER I am vaping in public are mute. There are NO long term studies that show the dangerous flavors will not hurt a bystander, so Big Brother can save that money and go with caution.

There are no regulations preventing me, or you from making and vaping the flavors that are only 70% safer than smoking cigarettes...and I am relying solely on the common sense of those who post:

1-I don't care what is in there, it's safer than smoking, and
2-I is not illegal I will vape wherever I want

not to sit behind me in a theater and fill the air with vapor KNOWN to kill lung tissue while my family is trying to breath....melodrama...but see my point?

There are posts every day telling people vaping is harmless. While I believe MOST vaping is harmless, I believe it is our responsibility not to make claims that have not been proven.

Maybe it is just how I look at things but "It's 100% safe" followed by "oops that flavor kills tissue" kinda sounds like maybe not sure what we are talking about.

Details, details. Please link to what you are talking about.

 

[serendipitee]

Of the millions of people who vape, have you read or heard of anyone being harmed by vaping or being harmed by second hand vapor? Considering how many groups, with millions of dollars to spend, would like to see vaping banned, don't you think we would have known about it if someone had been harmed? If there was anything in exhaled vapor that would harm others, isn't it reasonable to expect that these same groups would have told us about it based on the studies they have done? Common sense tells me that generally, eliquid is safe since the major ingredients are all the same, at least from the major suppliers such as DeKang, Hangsen, Janty, etc. And since all of these ingredients are easy to come-by and inexpensive, there is no incentive to use some dangerous substitutes.

Maybe just me, but I would not purchase juice from China. We've seen major problems with food and non-food products produced there, so not a chance I am willing to take. I think most juice is likely very safe but still like to see a full list of ingredients.

 

[CookingWithGuns]

I want to be treated the same as a smoker. until well after they were shown to be unsafe, you could smoke damn well almost anywhere

 

[serendipitee]

For me, this is the key to being respectful of others in public places for me.
Even when it was perfectly acceptable to smoke literally ANYWHERE (and I'm talking about my youth when my doctor would smoke during the exams and once when a nurse smoking a cig helped prep me for surgery.), I found it incredibly offensive when someone sat down at the table next to me in a restaurant, or anywhere really, and fired up a cheap cigar.

And like it or not, some of the juices smell like ... to anybody not actually doing the vaping.

Fortunately, I have not been exposed to any juice that smells like @$$ but I have smelled a few totally and completely disgusting cigars in my days.
Anyone I've vaped around has not been able to smell anything, I've specifically asked. I've only vaped about a month so perhaps that day will come.
I understand why smoking isn't allowed indoors, it does smell generally bad no matter what one is smoking.

 

[wv2win]

Personally it annoys me when vapers think it's OK to do what they want where they want.

Sure, it's healthier - but it's no less disturbing having a flavour cloud blown on you.

What annoys me is when someone on ECF makes BS extreme examples that no one is suggesting is the way to vape.

 

[wv2win]

Maybe just me, but I would not purchase juice from China. We've seen major problems with food and non-food products produced there, so not a chance I am willing to take. I think most juice is likely very safe but still like to see a full list of ingredients.

90% of all eliquid made and used worldwide is from China. Considering the large Chinses eliquid manufacturers have opened up their facilities for inspection and video taped, I would be more concerned with US eliquid. A large percentage of US eliquid is made in someones garage, basement, kitchen and bathroom. Combine that with the deaths and illnesses in the US from tainted food, it's hard to see that US eliquid is safer or possibly even as safe.

 

[coat]

What annoys me is when someone on ECF makes BS extreme examples that no one is suggesting is the way to vape.

Exactly. I vape where & when I want, but I'm always considerate of others. I don't blow huge clouds, and I exhale slowly so the vapor won't even reach the person next to me. It's near impossible to stealth vape with a vamo though, so people still notice. Nobody has ever given me a hard time about using it but people often ask because they're interested.
I'm sure someday I'll meet some elitist non smoker who is extremely offended by what I do, and maybe I'd stop if I'm in a good mood. But there are many things that offend people in today's world. I get irritated by people who scream on cell phones in public, and I don't want to sit next to someone with a strong perfume at a movie. Or someone who snores on the train...but none of these things are banned. So just because one person may find my behavior offensive doesn't mean I should not have the right to do it. Especially when most of the time, nobody is offended.

 

[serendipitee]

And if you know anyone with severe asthma, COPD, Bronchitis, etc, then you have probably seen a nebulizer: a medicated vapor delivery system and it has obviously been deemed safe.

I understand they routinely use PG in nebulizers too.

 

[serendipitee]

90% of all eliquid made and used worldwide is from China. Considering the large Chinses eliquid manufacturers have opened up their facilities for inspection and video taped, I would be more concerned with US eliquid. A large percentage of US eliquid is made in someones garage, basement, kitchen and bathroom. Combine that with the deaths and illnesses in the US from tainted food, it's hard to see that US eliquid is safer or possibly even as safe.

That surprises me because everything I've bought has been advertised as US made. Perhaps because I've only been at it a month.

Please correct me if I am wrong, I understood the suppliers below to make their juice here (quotes are from their websites):

EC Blends - "ECBlend's custom line of liquid flavors are... Something Better - refreshing, delicious, and Made in the U.S.A. "

Vapor Room - "The Vapor Room introduces Ginger's USA Blends, our new line of pure e-juice, 100% made in the USA".

Desert Horizon - "American Made premium PV juice! AND American USDA certified and inspected ingredients, except for some of our flavoring which is made in Italy."

Nicoticket - "100% sourced and manufactured in the United States of America by our master mixologist."

MadVapes (Top Vapor) - "TopVapor e-liquid is AEMSA certified following strict standards on responsible and sustainable practices and processes for the safe manufacturing of e-liquids used in electronic cigarettes. (AMESA - American E-Liquid Manufacturing Association)"

Admittedly, there are occasional deaths and illnesses in the US from tainted food, a lot of which has come in from China.

BTW, I have no particular bone to pick with Chinese goods, they're just something I try to avoid when possible, particularly for consumables.

 

[stevegmu]

The only reason the government wants to ban vaping is because of all the tax dollars they are losing. Nothing else!

Federal and state governments will simply increase the tax on cigarettes to make up the losses from those who switched to e-cigarettes. They will then tax e-juice, not ban it. Why ban a potential cash cow?

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

There are minimal studies done on second hand vapor, the main ingredients have been somewhat tested but the chemical composition of all the different flavors have not been tested at all.

Let's do one tiny example... Cinnamon powder can scar and cause lung damage if inhaled into lungs, cinnamon eliquid can crack and eat thru plastics. Inhaled cinnamon eliquid does what to your lungs?

People can say I've been vaping tank cracking liquids for a couple years and I'm fine. What if it causes severe damage after 10 years, or more years or what if it only 1 more week until its serious damage. I smoked for 20 years and I'm fine but it is still long term effects so I don't want to hear it hasn't caused any issues with me yet.

There are allot more things that haven't been tested so using the excuse its harmless to others is just wishful thinking and not a valid excuse to vape anywhere they wish.

I believe second hand vaping is probably next to harmless but I hate hearing that excuse from others to be able to vape anywhere when its not a sure thing. I am a very considerate vaper and don't try to vape everywhere and anywhere. Seeing people say they vape to get around not being able to smoke inside stores and such is just silly and inconsiderate of others.

I have to disagree, I'm afraid. The eliquid sources that I use all use FDA approved food additives in their flavorings, all of which have been tested and approved for ingestion by the FDA. Now whether that makes them safe is really a different topic. Cinnamon, for example is used every day in holistic and naturopathic medicine to treat diabetes and it's amazingly far more effective with no side effects compared with allopathic medicines. I work in the world of medicine as a researcher in cancer and other diseases for a major US institution. I work with doctors every day. They always tell me two things when I bring up vaping. First, nicotine is bad because it restricts your blood vessels. Second, if it keeps you off the analogs, keep doing it, it's fine. It's like they all have the same cheat sheet or something. Since nicotine is in our food supply naturally in broccoli, spinach and many other vegetables, it's certainly harmless at moderate levels, and nicotine is used everyday for the treatment of depression, anxiety, Parkinson's, smoking cessation, etc. I know plenty of naturopathic doctors who say vaping is harmless, and comparable to the effects of a cup of coffee. If vaping was harmful, we would already know about it,. Do you really think all the studies that have been done were done to find vaping harmless? Of course not, a researcher could cement his/her career by finding it harmful, That's the PC thing about it, same as it was in 1984 when the dubious connection to lung cancer and smoking was made. Science cannot explain why only 10% of smokers get lung cancer, while 1% of non-smokers get lung cancer, but by tying everything to smoking, our greatest cancer (30%) remains basically non-researched now for 30 years.

 

[2coils]

I too remember when smoking was a perfectly acceptable activity and could be carried out anywhere and everywhere.

On topic: The only legitimate reason to ban smoking has been the damage it causes to other people's health and welfare. However, vaping does NOT cause that damage, since there is no second-hand smoke or bad odor, and in my short experience, does NOT bother others. Others rarely if ever even notice it unless they are directly looking at you and you are billowing vapour in their faces.

I don't smoke. I don't produce smoke. I no longer act like a smoker. I no longer smell like a smoker. I am not a smoker. So don't treat me like a smoker and I won't pretend I am one.

I refuse to have guilt trips about what I do. I have a nicotine addiction, ok, and choose to vape to satisfy it orally. The similarity with smoking ends there.

Well said! Thanks for the good post!

 

[DC2]

Since some of the research HAS determined that at least some forms of vaping do cause cell harm and cell death, I believe any debate here is pointless. Unless we are regulated to a single 'known safe' formula (read as basic flavorless medical dosage) then there is no argument anyone can make to justify putting non-vapers into harm's way by second hand vape.

And that is attributed in said research (Dr. Farsalinos) to be most likely due to certain flavorings.
So nobody should ever enter a restaurant where the "vapor" from flavorings runs rampant all day long.

What research? Always wise to consider the source which is difficult when none is named. Do you have links?

Details, details. Please link to what you are talking about.

Here is the link to the research noted...
http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2013/06/new-study-shows-that-electronic.html

Judge for yourselves.