why doesn't subohming fry juices?

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yinsen

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i'm sure it's quite obvious to most of you, but i don't quite understand yet.

whenever i go above 4.2v on like a 1.8ohm coil my juices start burning and tasting awful.

so surely firing a coil with extremely low resistances will just burn the hell out of your juices and make them taste nasty?

please enlighten me!
 

MrPlink

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1.8ohm coil on what?

There are tons of reasons.

Usually subohmers are using dripping attys. Typically they are using larger resistance wire. All other things being equal the lighter gauge wire will get warmer faster than heavier gauge.

Clearomizer atomizer heads use very thin gauge wire. So they cook quickly.

Also clearomizers by comparison have typically small atomizer chambers with much less airflow compared to a rebuildable dripper set up for subohms, which again can lead to a warmer vape.
 

Sykriss

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1.8ohm coil on what?

There are tons of reasons.

Usually subohmers are using dripping attys. Typically they are using larger resistance wire. All other things being equal the lighter gauge wire will get warmer faster than heavier gauge.

Clearomizer atomizer heads use very thin gauge wire. So they cook quickly.

Also clearomizers by comparison have typically small atomizer chambers with much less airflow compared to a rebuildable dripper set up for subohms, which again can lead to a warmer vape.

You're mostly correct here. Subohm coils typically use lower resistance wire, whereas 1.5-2.0ohm+ coils tend to use higher resistance wire. Everything else is correct. :)
 

tayone415

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i'm sure it's quite obvious to most of you, but i don't quite understand yet.

whenever i go above 4.2v on like a 1.8ohm coil my juices start burning and tasting awful.

so surely firing a coil with extremely low resistances will just burn the hell out of your juices and make them taste nasty?

please enlighten me!

One reason when dripping, the wicking material is soaked in juice from dripping on to it and unlike a tank doesn't need time to wick, so the only burnt taste you'd get is vaping without enough liquid on the wick or no juice at all.
 

happydave

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its all about the wick to wire surface area ratio. the vaporization temp of the e-liquid your using, and how quickly that e-liquid will move through through the wick.
if your getting dry / "burned" hits it because the e-liquid is not traveling through the wick and to the coil as fast as its being vaporized because it is too thick.
or the boiling point of your e-liquid is too low and is being vaporized faster than the e-liquid can travel through the wick (PG vaporizes at a lower temp than VG)
or the coil wraps are too close together, basically localizing the heat to a small area and e-liquid is not traveling fast or far enough into the coil area to prevent dry hits.

with a dripper your wick is sitting in a puddle of e-liquid and is not constricted at all, allowing for the maximum amount of juice to reach the coil. the other thing about drippers is that when you take a drag you are pulling vacuum on the entire wick and coil, this helps remove any air pockets inside the wick and allows e-liquid to take the place of the air. this last one really helps increase the wicking rate of the e-liquid.
hope this helps.
 
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edyle

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i'm sure it's quite obvious to most of you, but i don't quite understand yet.

whenever i go above 4.2v on like a 1.8ohm coil my juices start burning and tasting awful.

so surely firing a coil with extremely low resistances will just burn the hell out of your juices and make them taste nasty?

please enlighten me!

Because your 1.8 ohm coil is 30 or 32 gauge.
If you make a low ohm coil at those gauges and put the 4.2 volts on it you Will burn the juice.

It's the big gauge wire used.

Because it's big gauge wire being used, the ohms end up smaller, because thicker wire has less resistance.
subohm often seems more like a misnomer.
 

t.d

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Because your 1.8 ohm coil is 30 or 32 gauge.
If you make a low ohm coil at those gauges and put the 4.2 volts on it you Will burn the juice.

It's the big gauge wire used.

Because it's big gauge wire being used, the ohms end up smaller, because thicker wire has less resistance.
subohm often seems more like a misnomer.

surface area and airflow.
 

Tom Fuller

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One reason when dripping, the wicking material is soaked in juice from dripping on to it and unlike a tank doesn't need time to wick, so the only burnt taste you'd get is vaping without enough liquid on the wick or no juice at all.

Ok this is the first answer that has made sense to me. I get the low feed fry. What I don't get is the dense hot vapor being enjoyable. So to me the dripper I have stays on the shelf. My nautilus and Vamo create more "smoke" than a cigar. The patriot gave me fits until I figured out the amount of eliquid being converted to vapor in the small amount of time. So it's not that drippers and kayfuns and the like get more flavor out of the same juice. They just convert a hell of a lot more in the same few seconds. I vape about 2.5 ml a day through the clearo and easily went through an ml in 5 puffs on the dripper. I get dry mouth as is; using the rda all day would kill me.


Live Long and Vape!
 

tayone415

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Ok this is the first answer that has made sense to me. I get the low feed fry. What I don't get is the dense hot vapor being enjoyable. So to me the dripper I have stays on the shelf. My nautilus and Vamo create more "smoke" than a cigar. The patriot gave me fits until I figured out the amount of eliquid being converted to vapor in the small amount of time. So it's not that drippers and kayfuns and the like get more flavor out of the same juice. They just convert a hell of a lot more in the same few seconds. I vape about 2.5 ml a day through the clearo and easily went through an ml in 5 puffs on the dripper. I get dry mouth as is; using the rda all day would kill me.


Live Long and Vape!

The dense hot vape isn't for everyone, some people like a very cool light vape and other's like a warm to hot vape. Just like how some people can use single coils and some need at least dual, even on more basic devices with no voltage control, it works for some but not all. Being a former pack a day Newport smoker I feel more satisfied with a warm-hot vape with thicker vapor, as it feels closer to a real cigarette to me, then using a rebuildable tank and especially a non-rebuildable tank and I use all 3 but feel the most satisfied dripping, where maybe someone else who smoked ultra lights or lights, milds or mediums won't enjoy a hot vape, but it is something you have to get use to and after awhile a vape that once felt hot, feels warm. Also dripping doesn't mean you have to have a hot vape, there're people who drip at higher ohms, and are happy with it.
 

dice57

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With enough juice and air flow, sub ohm vape is no warmer than standard ohm vapes. With proper juice and air flow your not so much as burning hotter as just using up more energy. Have a 0.27 build that uses 2 ml in 10 minutes or less. Have a tank system built that low too. Just a question of balance,.
 

tayone415

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With enough juice and air flow, sub ohm vape is no warmer than standard ohm vapes. With proper juice and air flow your not so much as burning hotter as just using up more energy. Have a 0.27 build that uses 2 ml in 10 minutes or less. Have a tank system built that low too. Just a question of balance,.

What kind of a tank are you using, I just finally went for a RSST genesis style tank just a single coil with 1/8 drill holes, set for auto dripping, but can't get it below .8 without getting dry hits?
 

TheSystemHasFailed

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Wow a lot of staple information not mentioned here.

Not all juices taste good sub-ohmed, number one...
Number two, even when you build low, you can jog the switch to fire intermittently.

And the reason you get burnt juice, is more than likely because you are using a clearomiser...silica sucks for wicking at fast rates.
Use clearos to get off the smokes.
 

Tom Fuller

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Wow a lot of staple information not mentioned here.

Not all juices taste good sub-ohmed, number one...
Number two, even when you build low, you can jog the switch to fire intermittently.

And the reason you get burnt juice, is more than likely because you are using a clearomiser...silica sucks for wicking at fast rates.
Use clearos to get off the smokes.

I have used silica (unwound), cotton, and hemp. They all have their strengths. Currently I have a 1.3ohm dual coil with cotton. Really just rebuilt it again hoping to get a positive out of it. The warm up time is slow but I can only blame that on the Mod (vamo v5) but the mod is not doing anything wrong. It would just take a lot more amperage through put to be much faster or to go sub ohm. What I did find is after a few warm up pulses it puts out some crazy flavorful vape with much less density. I am still playing with it and will pull it off the shelf in another few days and try it on the unregulated I just ordered.
 
What so many other posts have said:

1. Surface area. The larger the surface area the more juice is in contact with the heating element and the greater the volume of vapor produced. The downside of surface area is its mass which determines the time energy must be applied to heat the coil. Thus a 32ga round coil will heat faster than a 22ga coil of the same resistance because there is less mass to heat up.

2. Resistance. V^2 / R = W (voltage squared divided by resistance equals watts) and watts are heat energy. The more heat the faster the liquid is vaporized and the warmer the vapor produced is, up to the point of 'frying' it. The downside of high-energy systems is short battery life. I know some really experienced sub-ohm builders who build down to 60 milliohms, but they change batteries as often as I used to change my 510 stick batteries (several times a day).

3. Wicking. Wick characteristics matter. The more rapidly a liquid can travel through by capillary and thermal gradient the more juice is available to be vaporized. Steel mesh is great for high heat, but it doesn't support high juice flow, cotton gives great flow but isn't very tolerant of high heat, silica and Eckowool are middle ground materials and have their own issues (they tend to clog resulting in dry hits).

4. Voltage. Voltage is potential, the higher the potential the faster the current can heat the coil, hence a given coil will heat faster on a fresh battery at 4.2 volts than it will on a "dead" battery at 3.7 volts. Long ago we used to 'stack' batteries to increase the voltage but at the currents we use this was a more dangerous practice and is not recommended anymore.

5. Airflow. Airflow is another determinant of vapor density. Too little airflow and the vapor burns at the surface of the coil, too much airflow and the vapor density drops to the point of sucking air. Getting the balance right yields a vapor that has the characteristics that bring out the flavor/vapor/throat hit of a particular set of juices. Most of us have RDA's drilled out to balance airflow for the builds we put on them, some need big holes 1/8" (or larger), others work best with a couple of #54's.

6. Juice characteristic. Different flavors taste better at different temperatures and densities. The mix ratio of PG/VG also has a lot to do with vaporization temperature of the juice. The components of the flavor also affect the vaporization temperature and there are some components that are not very heat tolerant and will 'caramelize'. As a rule-of-thumb darker juices will caramelize more than clear ones, but as with most ROTs YMMV.

Those of us who build RDA's and do sub-ohm look to optimize these parameters to provide a satisfying vape. Any one of us can talk about builds that fried a particular juice (and not all of them are sub-ohm ;) ), and ones that failed to produce the vapor temperature density and flavor we were expecting.

Sub-ohm vaping is a science and an art. Blowing clouds is a part of it (the fun part), but it's really about finding that balance between vapor density, temperature and taste that makes a juice come alive. That being said, it is not something to jump into without experience. At a minimum you need to be able to understand battery safety, build characteristics (above), and the characteristics of the mod and atomizer (voltage drop, current path, heat transfer) being used. If these things are not in your repertoire of knowledge, keep reading the forums and ask questions.
 

dice57

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What kind of a tank are you using, I just finally went for a RSST genesis style tank just a single coil with 1/8 drill holes, set for auto dripping, but can't get it below .8 without getting dry hits?

Have a couple Rose 2's, a few Flashi's, Russian, Aqua and both tailfun's too.
 
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