Why don't people want e-liquid labels changed?

[hashtag]

What about in your own home?

Let's say you have a small kid. They see the things in your own home, right?

In the kitchen they see this:



And you tell them that this is for them, that it's OK for them to eat it, and you'll even help them get a bowl of it to eat.

Then, sitting on the counter they see this...

Do you think that kid just might be tempted to take a drink?

As a parent I see it as my responsibility to not leave it sitting on the counter and to educate my children about what it is in case I do. My kids are 14 and 7 so it is a bit easier than it is for those with younger kids but with younger kids it's pretty easy to keep things out of their reach.

 

[hashtag]

Also, sitting on the counter, guns, ammo, rat poison, mace spray, gasoline , cigarettes and matches.

Hopefully you teach your children not to smoke the cigarettes around the gasoline.

 

[caramel]

Hopefully you teach your children not to smoke the cigarettes around the gasoline.

And to not shoot daddy when they get angry on him.

 

[AndriaD]

Also, sitting on the counter, guns, ammo, rat poison, mace spray, gasoline , cigarettes and matches.

Heh, I was just thinking... why would a parent leave a bottle of that sitting on the counter in plain view and easy reach, if there are children around?

Andria

 

[Brian1989]

I honestly don't think you'll see a change in the lables unless it becomes illegal to do so, its all advertisting to say the least. I wont lie, a nice label is good

 

[WillyZee]

And to not shoot daddy when they get angry on him.

That's what the pepper spray is for.


Sent via iPhone

 

[dogpatch._.designs]

My only concern over this issue is that a segment of the vaping population is trying to assert itself over another segment of the population. By utilizing the "boogieman" F.D.A. as the bad guy, we overlook the real bad guy, the elitist ones who believe they know best. It starts here, a concern that we can all support,"well of course we don't want the kids vaping" and will soon morph into you shouldn't vape below 0.1 ohm, cause you could kill yourself. Who couldn't support that huh? Well I don't vape like you, or you, or even you. I vape a style that satisfies my vaping needs. But I hear all the time from reviewers or others how" I am not judging...but that is crazy. If you believe in personal preservation, as I do, you vape as safe as is possible. Oddly enough this bias does not come from the big bad fda, it is other people, who started the same way as everyone else. Now they have been vaping "forever" so they know what the rest of us need. This community will only flourish if the judgmental self righteous vapors take a step back, and quit trying to decide what is "best" for everyone else. Just one fellows opinion however.....

 

[GrandSam]

I've said it once, and I will say it again. If your child, at any point, finds no issue drinking from a dripper bottle that clearly has a warning and danger disclaimer on it, than you may want to take him or her to a psychologist or psychiatrist.

Note: The above is not medical advice and should not be taken as such; it is just an observation of common sense that should be seen in children.

 

[JimDrock]

I just finished reading this entire thread and I have to say many of the postings are quite compelling, on both sides of the issue. Thanks for the great discussion.

While I am not a fan of some of these labels, I am even less of a fan of just rolling over, especially doing so to those who are ignorant or who have hidden agendas.

If a change to the Vaping industry/community needs to occur, it will happen naturally, as it has done and continues to do.

Unfortunately, IMHO, changing labels just to make peace will not benefit vaping, and this due to the fact that there is no compromise. Compromise involves concessions by both sides, what will the ANTZ concede to the vaping community?

I believe nothing, thus bowing our head at this point is certanily a sign of weakness and most likely will get it cut off.

On a positive note, VAPING ROCKS!

 

[Completely Average]

As a parent I see it as my responsibility to not leave it sitting on the counter and to educate my children about what it is in case I do. My kids are 14 and 7 so it is a bit easier than it is for those with younger kids but with younger kids it's pretty easy to keep things out of their reach.

That's great for you.

However, can you explain why the government requires all medication to come with childproof caps?

 

[skoony]

I don't think Anyone hear is Saying that Anyone is Intentionally using Cartoons to Attract Children. I know I'm Not.

But Unintentional Actions can have the Same Ramifications as Intentional Ones.

they do not nor have ever been proven to due to due so.
mike

 

[GrandSam]

That's great for you.

However, can you explain why the government requires all medication to come with childproof caps?

Because there have been documented instances where children consumed pills that they should not have had in their possession; likely due to negligent parents who lack the ability to hide their medication from their children. I suppose physicians simply got tired of pumping children's stomachs.

No kids here, but I do have family that often visit. That said, I have 6 younger children in my family. My juice, mods, etc. all sit in a drawer, roughly 5 feet off the ground. I also installed a lock on it. All it took was $10 and 30 minutes of my life.

 

[Completely Average]

Also, sitting on the counter, guns, ammo, rat poison, mace spray, gasoline , cigarettes and matches.

How many people do you know that keep a loaded gun in their unlocked nightstand?
How many have rat poison or other poisonous chemicals under the sink?
How many have gasoline sitting in a can in their garage, totally unprotected?
How many mothers have cigarettes and lighters in the purse which they leave on the counter or in a chair within easy reach of a child?

How many children are injured or killed from one of the above each year?



Let me put it another way....

Would you walk into the middle of a large crowd and a sports event or concert and hold up $1,000 in cash in your hand for everyone to see?

If not, then why not? Because it's stupid and flirting with danger, right? Because it's creating an obvious temptation for others to do something wrong, right?

And how is that any different from ecig juices with lables that look like children's cereal or candy?

 

[Nermal]

That's great for you.

However, can you explain why the government requires all medication to come with childproof caps?

Hard to explain, mostly because a least in New Mexico you can get your medications with easy open caps on request.

 

[GrandSam]

How many people do you know that keep a loaded gun in their unlocked nightstand?
How many have rat poison or other poisonous chemicals under the sink?
How many have gasoline sitting in a can in their garage, totally unprotected?
How many mothers have cigarettes and lighters in the purse which they leave on the counter or in a chair within easy reach of a child?

How many children are injured or killed from one of the above each year?



Let me put it another way....

Would you walk into the middle of a large crowd and a sports event or concert and hold up $1,000 in cash in your hand for everyone to see?

If not, then why not? Because it's stupid and flirting with danger, right? Because it's creating an obvious temptation for others to do something wrong, right?

And how is that any different from ecig juices with lables that look like children's cereal or candy?

I will agree, to some degree.
However, holding up $1000 in a public forum, building, residence, etc. is done knowing full well the risk that potential criminals, some convicted of assault, burglary, theft, etc. could be in the area. You are also dealing with adults, who are physically and mentally capable of committing a crime - in no way am I assuming that children are not, however, adults would be more likely to do so.

Choosing not to keep your bottles of e juice in a discreet location, away from children, is a personal, yet nonetheless negligent choice. When raised properly, and when proper cautionary steps are taken by a responsible adult, a child should not attempt to consume a bottle of juice, regardless of the label it has. The second scenario is more probable than the first. How often are you going to flaunt $1000 in a public area? How often are you, an avid vaper, going to have bottles of juice in your home?

Again, I will agree that companies need to be more careful about how they choose to advertise their bottles. However, being in the field of Law, I do believe that they have a right to advertise however they see fit, so long as they are not breaking the law.

Sincerely,

Devils Advocate

 

[caramel]

How many people do you know that keep a loaded gun in their unlocked nightstand?
How many have rat poison or other poisonous chemicals under the sink?
How many have gasoline sitting in a can in their garage, totally unprotected?
How many mothers have cigarettes and lighters in the purse which they leave on the counter or in a chair within easy reach of a child?

How many children are injured or killed from one of the above each year?

How about you do your homework and check yourself?

I'll help you start:

10,000 Kids Are Injured Or Killed By Guns Each Year In The U.S. | ThinkProgress

Super Potent Rat Poison Harms Wildlife, Pets & Kids : Wildlife Promise

As for the hypothetical stunt with the $$$, it does not involve children, how is it relevant to this discussion?

 

[skoony]

My only concern over this issue is that a segment of the vaping population is trying to assert itself over another segment of the population. By utilizing the "boogieman" F.D.A. as the bad guy, we overlook the real bad guy, the elitist ones who believe they know best. It starts here, a concern that we can all support,"well of course we don't want the kids vaping" and will soon morph into you shouldn't vape below 0.1 ohm, cause you could kill yourself. Who couldn't support that huh? Well I don't vape like you, or you, or even you. I vape a style that satisfies my vaping needs. But I hear all the time from reviewers or others how" I am not judging...but that is crazy. If you believe in personal preservation, as I do, you vape as safe as is possible. Oddly enough this bias does not come from the big bad fda, it is other people, who started the same way as everyone else. Now they have been vaping "forever" so they know what the rest of us need. This community will only flourish if the judgmental self righteous vapors take a step back, and quit treng to decide what is "best" for everyone else. Just one fellows opinion however.....

pure and unadulterated bs.
they have made up their minds already.
now they need to spread the blame.

 

[Completely Average]

I will say this and then I'm through with the subject.

The movie industry and later the video gaming industry were both at one time facing strict government regulation. The way they both avoided the government regulation was to form an industry agency that oversaw and regulated itself. Their own agencies imposed their own restrictions, ratings, and guidelines. EVERYONE these days know what the movie ratings are, and most everyone knows about the video game ratings. Non-adult only theaters avoid rated X movies, virtually every video game store avoids selling porn games. Many theaters and stores will ID or refuse to sell to obviously underage kids. Advertising posters, trailers, and commercials are regulated and censored to avoid showing what they deem to be "mature" content to underage audiences, even if the movie or game itself is packed full of said mature content.

The vaping industry really needs to adopt the same if they want to avoid heavy government regulation. They need to form an overall industry regulating agency that sets guidelines and limitations on how ecigs are marketed and sold, and that includes labeling. The industry needs to step up and demonstrate that it can act responsibly for the benefit of the industry, vaping community, and wider community as a whole or the government WILL enforce it's own standards and regulations. These people that think that ecig companies and ecig users should be able to do whatever they want with impunity are just begging the government to take over. You may as well call your government representatives up and tell them that you're incapable of controlling yourselves, because that's precisely what you're saying when you say that stuff like labeling ecig liquids just like candy is a good idea.


Personally I'm just waiting for the day when some child dies because some vaping idiot who thinks they should be able to vape anywhere they want and behave however they want blows a big cloud of almond whatever into the face of some kid with a severe nut allergy. Watch how the government reacts to that one. And trust me, a case like that is just a matter of time with the attitudes some people here have about self control. We like to claim that second hand vapor is harmless, but the truth is that some of these flavors can kill someone with the right allergy, and some vapers are absolutely militant when it comes to being told that they should control where and how they vape in public.

 

[KattMamma]

@Completely Average - I don't think anyone here is saying we wouldn't like some mfgs, vendors, and vapers to behave a bit better - but let's be honest, the ones that are causing all the fuss are a very tiny minority.

I'm not saying some of them aren't stupid or arrogant or whatever - I'm just saying we DON'T WANT REGULATIONS BASED ON FEAR MONGERING. Period.

If there was a gang of blonde females running around robbing banks and causing mayhem, would we condemn all blondes? Pass laws making it ridiculously expensive to become a blonde? Make all blondes be platinum blonde, since the bank robbers were strawberry blondes?

That's how I feel about these stupid regulations based on "well, we really don't know that it's 100% safe" (what is??) or "this vendor uses cookies on their label" or "that vaper blew a cloud my a kid's face" (btw, probably 98% of all vapers would jump on a vaper for doing that)

Pulling out worst case scenarios to justify overreaching regulation is .. well.. overreaching.

Oh and one more thing... the regulations are NOT going to save little Timmy from anything, nor were they designed to. The regs are just so they can control the market (closed systems for BT - nobody else gets to play) and tax the crap out of it. BT, BP, and BG would all be happy with that. It really is that simple.

 

[stevegmu]

Regulation doesn't work by comparing one product to another. It looks at a single product in vacuum and sets standards for said product...