Why don't people want e-liquid labels changed?

[KattMamma]

Oh and one more thing. I am violently allergic to many perfumes and colognes, and I'm not alone in this regard (many children are too - I had my first violent reaction at around age 11). But I'm not trying to get colognes regulated or outlawed. I just use common sense. If a family member or coworker wears a cologne I'm highly allergic to, I try to avoid them. If I can't, I politely let them know I'm allergic and ask if they would mind not wearing that when they're going to be around me.

That still leaves public places - grocery stores, banks, etc. - I won't ask a stranger to do squat - I just move away from them. I purposely avoid crowds (I used to take a benedryl before going to a concert - preventative medicine) and rarely eat in restaurants for the same reason. So I know all about the allergy angle.

If my child was at risk of a deadly allergic reaction from the tiniest bit of allergen, I don't think I would take him out in public much. and probably wouldn't have him in public school either. But either way, I'd always have an epi-pen just in case.

 

[Lessifer]

Regulation doesn't work by comparing one product to another. It looks at a single product in vacuum and sets standards for said product...

Except in this case, vapor products are poised to be regulated based on the standards set for tobacco products, because of a possible common component. Similar to regulating poppy seed muffins as opiates.

 

[stevegmu]

Except in this case, vapor products are poised to be regulated based on the standards set for tobacco products, because of a possible common component. Similar to regulating poppy seed muffins as opiates.

So where do comparisons to household cleaners come into play?

Has Subway been exempt from posting nutrition information because most will agree it is healthier to eat at Subway than McDonalds?

Yes, e-liquids will be regulated as tobacco products, under the TCA...

 

[zoiDman]

Except in this case, vapor products are poised to be regulated based on the standards set for tobacco products, because of a possible common component. Similar to regulating poppy seed muffins as opiates.

e-Cigarettes/e-Liquid will share some Regulations that All Tobacco Products fall under. Like 18+ Age Limits and No Internet Sales and Standardized Labeling. But from there, I'm not sure how much Similarity e-Cigarettes/e-Liquid will have?

And to Make the Comparison of Poppy Seeds to Opiates seems like a Bit of a Hype.

 

[Lessifer]

So where do comparisons to household cleaners come into play?

Has Subway been exempt from posting nutrition information because most will agree it is healthier to eat at Subway than McDonalds?

Yes, e-liquids will be regulated as tobacco products, under the TCA...

I thought the discussion was about marketing/branding, not informational labels.

 

[stevegmu]

I thought the discussion was about marketing/branding, not informational labels.

Comparing one thing to another and expecting one not to be regulated, as it isn't as harmful as another seems to be how the discussion turned... The Subway reference is an example of how such thinking does not apply to regulation...

 

[Lessifer]

e-Cigarettes/e-Liquid will share some Regulations that All Tobacco Products fall under. Like 18+ Age Limits and No Internet Sales and Standardized Labeling. But from there, I'm not sure how much Similarity e-Cigarettes/e-Liquid will have?

And to Make the Comparison of Poppy Seeds to Opiates seems like a Bit of a Hype.

It's a stretch, but in all honesty, not much of one. Possibly regulating wheat as an alcohol product? I don't know, it's a pretty singular case. Regulating a product because it might contain a relatively benign derivative of another harmful product.

 

[zoiDman]

It's a stretch, but in all honesty, not much of one. Possibly regulating wheat as an alcohol product? I don't know, it's a pretty singular case. Regulating a product because it might contain a relatively benign derivative of another harmful product.

We can Argue that "Deeming" is Wrong based on the Comparison of Wheat being an Alcohol (even though you have it Backwards, The Fallacy of Comparison should be 'Alcohol is a Wheat product').

We did this Back in 2011. And we did it in 2012 and in 2013 and not so much 2014. Now it is 2015.

 

[Lessifer]

We can Argue that "Deeming" is Wrong based on the Comparison of Wheat being an Alcohol (even though you have it Backwards, The Fallacy of Comparison should be 'Alcohol is a Wheat product').

We did this Back in 2011. And we did it in 2012 and in 2013 and not so much 2014. Now it is 2015.

The comparison could have gone either way, alcohol is the derivative, but is also the "harmful" product.

I do think it's going to come down to this, eventually, after some costly legal proceedings. The tobacco control framework doesn't allow for moderate, sensible regulation, that's not what it was designed for.

 

[zoiDman]

The comparison could have gone either way, alcohol is the derivative, but is also the "harmful" product.

I do think it's going to come down to this, eventually, after some costly legal proceedings. The tobacco control framework doesn't allow for moderate, sensible regulation, that's not what it was designed for.

Hey I don't Know Lessifer.

There is Nicotine in Tobacco Leafs. Then they take those Leafs, remove the Leafs so all that is left is the Nicotine. And then I put that in my Subtank Mini.

It's Late. Have a Good Night. And let us know how your 15,000,000 Runner up Prize is.

 

[mcclintock]

The ANTZ have already made up their minds but they use these things to try and convince other people. I don't think I've ever seen any of the labels in question "in the wild". I have some bottles that are plain, some pleasantly designed, I guess the Nicoticket ones have a few bright colors... They're searching down the worst (seeming) things they can find and holding them up out of context. Yeah, they're going to do that. But it wouldn't affect me at all for the worst targets they're using to go away, simply because I don't recall ever brushing up against them in the first place.

If they wanted to make it clearer the stuff is aimed at older adults, they could make the print larger though

 

[itskohler]

I see so much ignorance in here that it makes me want regulation to come down. Everyone here is applying what works for them to everyone else. There isn't a one size fits all approach to this.

If banning cartoonish labels keeps more regulations from coming down, ban the piss out of them. Give congress a bone to chew on since they are chomping at the bit. Let them stick their hands in the pot, whatever, it's going to happen anyways. But you can't sit here and say "well I dont have kids so we shouldn't ban them." That's like saying climate change isn't happening because it feels normal outside where you live...

 

[KattMamma]

If banning cartoonish labels keeps more regulations from coming down, ban the piss out of them. Give congress a bone to chew on since they are chomping at the bit.

But that won't work.

They already have an end game in mind (total control and high taxes). Anything you give them just makes their position stronger.

As has been said already, the only logical thing for vapers to do is to fight ALL gov't regulation, and encourage the industry to regulate itself.

 

[itskohler]

I work for the government, I regulate for a living, and I can tell you first hand that self regulation does not work. Period. There are programs for business owners who have stellar track records, but even then we still come down on them. The industry will be regulated, fight or no fight. In fact, if the community stands up against it, I can guarantee much more harsh regulations coming down. And unless you are in on their little "plan", you cannot say that the have an end game in mind that involves total control.

 

[jpargana]

What most people fail to recall or understand, if unbound individual/company/corporate greed was not hazardous to the public and/or the environment we live in there would be no need for government "rules and regulations" however history has taught us time and time again that without "rules and regulations" profits come before safety and people getting harmed or outright dieing (getting killed) is what prompted the creation of the government agencies in the first place.

If everything being sold was carefully designed and studied to ensure public safety BEFORE it was sold on the open market there would be little need or use for "watch dogs" (government or otherwise) looking over the shoulders of the industries and products being sold.

Food for thought.

So... Governments attacking e-cigarettes while protecting the tobacco industry are doing it for our own safety, right? Because as every ANTZ knows, smoking is so much healthier than vaping.

Clearly, this is NOT about (their) profits. Excise taxes, tobacco sales, big money given to "health associations" by Pharma... e-cig proposed regulations have nothing to do with it. It's alllll about our "safety", "health" and "well-being".


You seem to be mixing up proper, sensible regulations (which are needed, of course) with regulations made on purpose to protect *corporations* (even at the people's expense, if need be) and control *people* - when it should be the other way around.

 

[KattMamma]

I work for the government, I regulate for a living, and I can tell you first hand that self regulation does not work. Period. There are programs for business owners who have stellar track records, but even then we still come down on them. The industry will be regulated, fight or no fight. In fact, if the community stands up against it, I can guarantee much more harsh regulations coming down. And unless you are in on their little "plan", you cannot say that the have an end game in mind that involves total control.

2 examples of self regulation that worked -- just a few posts back -- movies and video games.

And I know that I have a better chance of winning the lottery (a few times over) than of escaping vaping regulations. That doesn't mean I want to hand it over to them.

Are you "in on their little plan" ? I don't see how you can watch what's going on at the FDA and not see the end game.

 

[KattMamma]

I am a somewhat intelligent adult, supposedly living in a "free country." Why am I not allowed to choose for myself what I consume, and how I consume it?

And more to the subject of this thread -- Why should the companies that sell the products I consume have restrictions put on the graphics/colors/whatever on their labels? They're not marketing to 5 year olds, that would be stupid and a waste of their marketing budget. And teens are gonna do what teens are gonna do.

As far as toddlers being attracted to the cookie on the label -- why is the bottle where the toddler can reach it? If the toddler can reach it, then it's a problem no matter what's on the label.

This whole business just turns my stomach.

 

[itskohler]

2 examples of self regulation that worked -- just a few posts back -- movies and video games.

And I know that I have a better chance of winning the lottery (a few times over) than of escaping vaping regulations. That doesn't mean I want to hand it over to them.

Are you "in on their little plan" ? I don't see how you can watch what's going on at the FDA and not see the end game.

The film industry is regulated, and the same with video games. If anything this prooves that if you let the government regulate it a little and not put too much of a fight up, they will be more lax in the future.

 

[itskohler]

Live in the U.S., Play by the rules. Otherwise, move.

 

[KattMamma]

yep, I can tell you work for the gov't