Why don't people want e-liquid labels changed?

[scrabble]

No, and more no.

Read this while I get more links...
Why vaping does not cause lipoid pneumonia | E-Cigarette Forum

Because I personally choked on thick bubbly mucus, I'm going to accept that the 42 year old woman was diagnosed correctly. We know that VG is viscous.

viscous
having a thick, sticky consistency between solid and liquid; having a high viscosity.
synonyms: glutinous, gelatinous, thick, viscid, mucous, mucoid, mucilaginous, gummy, gluey, adhesive, tacky, adherent, treacly, syrupy

I'm not a doctor but I can reason that viscous lungs can cause lipid pneumonia.

 

[scrabble]

Sure, in a perfect world, where the gov't wasn't for sale to the highest bidder, I agree, that would be great. However the word "corrupt" doesn't go nearly far enough, in describing the gov't we actually have -- evil, greedy, gluttonous, control-freak, Machiavellian, depraved, and malicious should also be in any description of our gov't. Because of that, if you really want to be safe, you must be responsibly proactive, and see to the safety of the ingredients yourself -- it's really not difficult; TPA/TFA shows every ingredient in their flavors, right on their site, and bullcityvapor.com also makes a point of identifying all flavors that contain any type of diketone, in any amount. It's not perfect, but so far it has sufficed to provide me with safe ingredients for my ejuice -- I make sure of that just as I make sure of the nic level and PG/VG proportions in the finished ejuice.

It's exactly the same as cooking your own food at home rather than pay extortionate prices for the 3rd-class quality of foods prepared in restaurants. One often has no idea at all what they put in or on it; cook it yourself at home, and you can be sure of the quality of every ingredient used. Sure, it's always possible that some ingredient will be not up to par, but it's far less likely to happen when you do it yourself.

If you simply don't want to go to the trouble of doing it yourself, then you must accept whatever is available; vote with your dollars, for those products you find acceptable; if a vendor consistently provides unacceptable products, eventually business will be business and they'll go out of it. The answer is NOT allowing a corrupt, evil, greedy, gluttonous, control-freak, Machiavellian, depraved, and malicious gov't to do it for you, because I guarantee you, they will not stop there; they will attempt to micro-manage every last aspect, resulting in far higher prices for far lower-quality items.

Andria

I do agree with you. I just think they need to be doing their job, and do it correctly. I want them to. I want them to get this right and not screw up.

 

[Chibisaurus]

There are a lot of people complaining about heavy lung and shortness of breath. I don't think it's symptoms of quitting smoking for all of those people.

Heavy lung IS a symptom of quitting smoking.

The Quitters Flu.

My father smoked for 45 years, Quit 5 years ago (Cold turkey) because of being in the hospital for 3 months.
about a month into the hospital My sister visited and took him out on a walk, She was smoking a cigarette.
She let my dad "hit" her cigarette, within 30 seconds he was coughing and hacked and choking up BLACK bits of goo.
He STILL has coughing attacks to this day. You are filling your lungs with tar with every inhale of a cigarette, How else
do you think that tar is going to come out?

It takes about 12 weeks before your lungs can even start repairing themselves.

 

[DC2]

I'm concerned because of adverse effects from vaping, not because of "propaganda".

I understand your concern due to what you've read.
But you should know that what you've read is mostly propaganda.

You WILL understand that if you stick around awhile.

Or you could just start reading the "Media and General News" subforum...
Media and General News | E-Cigarette Forum

 

[Chibisaurus]

Because I personally choked on thick bubbly mucus, I'm going to accept that the 42 year old woman was diagnosed correctly. We know that VG is viscous.

viscous
having a thick, sticky consistency between solid and liquid; having a high viscosity.
synonyms: glutinous, gelatinous, thick, viscid, mucous, mucoid, mucilaginous, gummy, gluey, adhesive, tacky, adherent, treacly, syrupy

I'm not a doctor but I can reason that viscous lungs can cause lipid pneumonia.

HealthUnlocked | The social network for health

Coughing up brown phlegm - Smoking Addiction - MedHelp

Coughing up black phlegm after quitting smoking - Answers on HealthTap

Brown mucus can be due to:

• Chocolate, cocoa or other foods that stain mucus brown
• Smoking – from resins and tars in smoke
• Grey Mucus
• Grey mucus can be caused by air pollution , cigarette or marijuana smoking.
  
  Black Mucus
  Black mucus can be due to:
  
  • Smoking marijuana, cigarettes, ....... or other substances. It is not possible to reliably say, if someone is smoking marijuana or cigarettes on the basis of the smoker mucus color. A smoker who has quit smoking may cough up mucus (black or other colors) for several days or weeks after quitting (4).

Mucus: Causes of White, Yellow, Brown, Grey, Black Phlegm | Healthhype.com

 

[scrabble]

Heavy lung IS a symptom of quitting smoking.

The Quitters Flu.

My father smoked for 45 years, Quit 5 years ago (Cold turkey) because of being in the hospital for 3 months.
about a month into the hospital My sister visited and took him out on a walk, She was smoking a cigarette.
She let my dad "hit" her cigarette, within 30 seconds he was coughing and hacked and choking up BLACK bits of goo.
He STILL has coughing attacks to this day. You are filling your lungs with tar with every inhale of a cigarette, How else
do you think that tar is going to come out?

It takes about 12 weeks before your lungs can even start repairing themselves.

I think you misread my posts. I didn't say that heavy lung wasn't a symptom of quitting smoking.

Have you read those threads in the heavy lung search results? Maybe read through some of them and you'll see for yourself that what people are talking about is vaping related. MY point is a question if the heavy lung (related to vaping) has anything to do with diacetyl or other chemicals.

 

[scrabble]

I understand your concern due to what you've read.
But you should know that what you've read is mostly propaganda.

You WILL understand that if you stick around awhile.

Or you could just start reading the "Media and General News" subforum...
Media and General News | E-Cigarette Forum

Again, my concern is adverse effects that I personally have experienced. Did you read anything I wrote?

My basis for understanding is always personal experience. I almost never adopt a populist view. I don't even use the word "propaganda". It's too populist for me.

 

[DC2]

I'm not a doctor but I can reason that viscous lungs can cause lipid pneumonia.

No, oil causes lipoid pneumonia.

There is no oil in electronic cigarette liquid.
Or at least there shouldn't be.

As for VG being viscous, you'll get no argument from me there.
In fact, I do not use anything with more than 50% VG due to increased phlegm production.

 

[scrabble]

HealthUnlocked | The social network for health

Coughing up brown phlegm - Smoking Addiction - MedHelp

Coughing up black phlegm after quitting smoking - Answers on HealthTap

Brown mucus can be due to:

• Chocolate, cocoa or other foods that stain mucus brown
• Smoking – from resins and tars in smoke
• Grey Mucus
• Grey mucus can be caused by air pollution , cigarette or ********* smoking.
  
  Black Mucus
  Black mucus can be due to:
  • Smoking *********, cigarettes, ******* or other substances. It is not possible to reliably say, if someone is smoking ********* or cigarettes on the basis of the smoker mucus color. A smoker who has quit smoking may cough up mucus (black or other colors) for several days or weeks after quitting (4).

Mucus: Causes of White, Yellow, Brown, Grey, Black Phlegm | Healthhype.com

Actually, what I coughed up and choked on was crystal clear and VERY thick and very very bubbly. It had nothing to do with smoking cigarettes. I've smoked cigarettes for nearly 30 years. I know cigarette smoking. What I experienced was caused by vaping. Period.

 

[caramel]

Again, my concern is adverse effects that I personally have experienced.

Best advice: discuss it with your family medic.

 

[scrabble]

No, oil causes lipoid pneumonia.

There is no oil in electronic cigarette liquid.
Or at least there shouldn't be.

As for VG being viscous, you'll get no argument from me there.
In fact, I do not use anything with more than 50% VIG due to increased phlegm production.

Read again, I can reason that viscous lungs can cause lipid pneumonia. That isn't the same thing as saying that e-cig liquid has oil in it. It's saying that viscous lungs CAUSE the oil (fatty) response.

 

[scrabble]

Best advice: discuss it with your family medic.

I'm not asking anybody for advice, nor am I looking for any. I mentioned what I experienced because somebody said how safe e-cigs are. I disagree. I agree they're safer than tobacco but I don't agree, at all, that e-cigs are as safe as people think they are.

 

[AndriaD]

I think you misread my posts. I didn't say that heavy lung wasn't a symptom of quitting smoking.

Have you read those threads in the heavy lung search results? Maybe read through some of them and you'll see for yourself that what people are talking about is vaping related. MY point is a question if the heavy lung (related to vaping) has anything to do with diacetyl or other chemicals.

Quite a few of us experience lung problems from mild to severe, with too much VG, and that "too much" can vary a great deal too; however, we are less numerous than those who experience burning, coughing, and other "chemical burn" type effects from PG. What you experienced is in no way unique; it may have to do with too-high VG, but equally, is indeed one of the common side effects from quitting smoking -- there's a lot of trapped stuff in there, that begins to come out, once the smokes have been gone long enough -- and "long enough" also varies wildly, from person to person.

So you've learned that you can't handle too much VG -- now you have to determine EXACTLY how much is too much, for YOUR body. Calling a non-toxic substance a toxin just because your body can't handle it, is wildly inaccurate and a completely abuse of language. If your body can't handle it, then get rid of it; or if you can handle a small amount but no more, then do that -- but the English language is messed-with enough already, without changing the definition of words to suit yourself. To me, grain alcohol is a highly toxic solvent and insanity-inducer; but that's my body's response to it; it doesn't mean that the alcohol itself is "toxic" -- those capable of imbibing it in moderation do not experience a complete lapse of sanity from it.

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

Read again, I can reason that viscous lungs can cause lipid pneumonia. That isn't the same thing as saying that e-cig liquid has oil in it. It's saying that viscous lungs CAUSE the oil (fatty) response.

But that is simply not true. Lipoid pneumonia is caused by inhaling lipids -- no other cause. There are no lipids in VG or PG; they are both alcohols.

Andria

 

[Chibisaurus]

I think you misread my posts. I didn't say that heavy lung wasn't a symptom of quitting smoking.

Have you read those threads in the heavy lung search results? Maybe read through some of them and you'll see for yourself that what people are talking about is vaping related. MY point is a question if the heavy lung (related to vaping) has anything to do with diacetyl or other chemicals.

But your claiming that you KNOW your heavy lung is from vaping, When in fact heavy lung IS a major symptom of quiting smoking. You have stated you ARE NOT a doctor, and there is nothing online (or in the search) that has concrete evidence that vaping causes heavy lung, when it is you no longer smoking a cigarette that is causing. it. I even linked you to one of the threads from that search of a number of people stating they don't have nor ever experienced heavy lung from vaping.

 

[DC2]

Again, my concern is adverse effects that I personally have experienced. Did you read anything I wrote?

I most certainly did.


I read where you were concerned with the following...
--lipoid pneumonia
--electronic cigarettes restricting lung function
--medicalizing electronic cigarettes because nicotine is a drug

Those are all concerns that only a person who has swallowed the propaganda would concern themselves with.
The REAL truth about each of those things would alleviate those concerns.

And when I say "swallowed the propaganda" I don't mean that as an insult.
Or to be condescending.

It's hard not to swallow it when it is shoved down your throat every day.

I even found out the other day my wife still held onto some of the propaganda.
Even though I thought she had long since learned enough to see through it.

She said that Joe Camel proved that Big Tobacco was marketing to children.

 

[Chibisaurus]

Actually, what I coughed up and choked on was crystal clear and VERY thick and very very bubbly. It had nothing to do with smoking cigarettes. I've smoked cigarettes for nearly 30 years. I know cigarette smoking. What I experienced was caused by vaping. Period.

How can you say that you know it was caused by vaping, You are not a doctor, you don't have a degree in medicine and/or health. Did you have this phlegm tested? Or are you just guessing.

Why vaping does not cause lipoid pneumonia | E-Cigarette Forum

"
Lipid Pneumonia

The possibility of developing lipid pneumonia has caused another recent scare in the vaping world. Lipoid pneumonia is a serious illness that occurs when you aspirate or inhale fatlike materials in products like lip balm or oil-based laxatives. Is it true that vaping could put people at risk for this and other respiratory illnesses? Polosa said, “There is no such threat!” In fact, he said that the much feared lipoid pneumonia is extremely rare and has only occurred in two cases of ecig users, but there is no way to determine if it was directly related to vaping.

“There is no way that regular exposure to glycerin in e-vapor will cause accumulation of fatlike material in the lung, because glycerin is not a lipid, but an alcohol. In the Spanish case, radiological evidence for lipoid pneumonia was preceding electronic cigarette use, hence it was not a consequence of vaping. In both cases I could identify a more plausible cause for these patients’ lipoid pneumonia,” Polosa said.

In reality, it seems that many former smokers experience improvements in their health after switching to ecigs. In fact, studies have even shown that when a smoker with asthma switches to ecigs, they have a reduction in the number of asthma-related symptoms."

Professor Riccardo Polosa Debunks Common Myths About Electronic Cigarettes - ChurnMag

Myth: Ecig glycerol causes lipoid pneumonia
This myth has surfaced a few times. However, the glycerol used in eliquids cannot cause lipoid pneumonia as it is not an oil. Glycerol is an alcohol (not the type that intoxicates), not a lipid. The UK government's Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) stated in June 2013 it is not aware of any other cases of lipoid pneumonia associated with propylene glycol or glycerine products.

Ecigarette Myths - EcigAlternative.com

 

[scrabble]

But your claiming that you KNOW your heavy lung is from vaping, When in fact heavy lung IS a major symptom of quiting smoking. You have stated you ARE NOT a doctor, and there is nothing online (or in the search) that has concrete evidence that vaping causes heavy lung, when it is you no longer smoking a cigarette that is causing. it. I even linked you to one of the threads from that search of a number of people stating they don't have nor ever experienced heavy lung from vaping.

Again, you misread my posts. Totally.

I never said that I have heavy lung. WHY are you negative with me and fighting with me? I said I wonder if heavy lung has anything to do with diacetyl or other chemicals (since the discussion was about diacetyl). I told you that I've spent hours reading threads about heavy lung. I told you that heavy lung is vaping related (you would know that if you read those threads).

Do you understand what I'm saying?

 

[Chibisaurus]

Again, you misread my posts. Totally.

I never said that I have heavy lung. WHY are you negative with me and fighting with me? I said I wonder if heavy lung has anything to do with diacetyl or other chemicals (since the discussion was about diacetyl). I told you that I've spent hours reading threads about heavy lung. I told you that heavy lung is vaping related (you would know that if you read those threads).

Do you understand what I'm saying?

Reading threads made by other users who are claiming they feel they have heavy lung (while quitting smoking and switching to vaping) is not FACT that vaping caused this, when it has already been a proven fact that when you quit smoking, you get heavy lung.

And again, You claim that your problems "hacking up phlegm" (Which also causes heavy lung) is caused by vaping, Which it isn't. Have you ever heard "Don't believe everything you read on the internet" Sure if I google search "Heavy lung caused from vaping" I'm going to get a bunch of BS claims about it.

 

[scrabble]

I most certainly did.


I read where you were concerned with the following...
--lipoid pneumonia
--electronic cigarettes restricting lung function
--medicalizing electronic cigarettes because nicotine is a drug

Those are all concerns that only a person who has swallowed the propaganda would concern themselves with.
The REAL truth about each of those things, would alleviate those concerns.

Wow, way to take everything out of context and twist it. The lipid-pneumonia I just read about this morning in another thread on this very site. It makes perfect sense to me and I entirely accept that the woman was correctly diagnosed.

As for restricting lung function, somebody posted a heavy lung search result so I clicked on it and started reading. After I read about it, I wondered if diacetyl or other chemicals were the cause of heavy lung. We were discussing diacetyl, and so I made the obvious connection. It's a good question and people should be asking. Try to pay attention and stay focused, and don't twist up what I say.

And yes, somebody else mentioned that electronic cigarettes are drug delivery devices. I agree, because they definitely are. I responded to that and said that I was concerned that if things go down that track, there could be medicalization of e-cigs. You make it seem like I'm frantically concerned or even panicked. Don't take my words out of context, thank you.