Why is my provari telling me I have low battery @ 3.7v?
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1.5 Ohms is the bottom end of the range of the Provari. I usually wrap the coils of my RSST at 1.8 Ohms or higher. The one on my RSST right now is 3 ohms. I've seen coils that I wrap myself "shift" in resistance as they get used. Sometimes they "'shift" up as they get warmer, sometimes they "shift" down in resistance as they get warmer. Sometimes I use them a few times and they shift to a different resistance for good. With one right on the edge of the lower value 1.5 ohms, it should give an LOW error if it goes under the 1.5 ohm range of the Provari. Maybe you have a short that is so slight it happens when you take a vape, but that should produce an OP error on a Provari. I only use AW IMR or Panasonic IMR 18650 batteries, and I think that the battery being an Efest coupled with 1.5 ohm coil on your RSST may be the culprit. Have an AW IMR to test that with?
I've even gotten an OP error at 1.8Ω.
I think my ProVari doesn't like the RSST so I leave it on the Zmax.
Warning! Rawr Alert! Personal Opinions About To Be Expressed! INCOMING!
(This is not directed at you Jag, I'm rawring to the world at large.)
What do I honestly think? I agree with you. Beginners don't need long posts filled with equations, when the questions they ask are simple. While the information thrown at them is (hopefully) correct, it's overkill; but it's also underkill. There are basic elements new vapers need to clearly understand, yet those points are not emphasized over what often appears to be posturing. Wow Skippy, you sure are smart! But you just lost your audience and didn't answer their question.
People only need to have a general concept of how volts, resistance and (to a lesser degree for novice users) amps interact to produce watts. They don't need to be able to recite all the formulae of Ohm's Law, but they should be able to grasp why Protank heads come in different resistances. They may not use the ubiquitous V²/R=P calculation, but they should understand what it means and the implications. Repeatedly telling novices that "Variable Wattage does the math for you, so you don't have to deal with it," perpetuates the misconception that the calculation is difficult and we end up with people dependent on Chinese mods. Sure, they're vaping at 8 watts no matter what device they've screwed on, but they have no idea how they got there and now they want to wrap coils.
Understanding how to vary wattage is especially important for people who aren't using an adjustable device. When was the last time you read a beginner being told they could vary the wattage of a 650mAh eGo? Certainly, it won't vary as much as if they were using a device with higher voltage, but it can be adjusted. I'm very glad I learned this before I found ECF or I might be sitting here with my Vamo trying to unlearn what I thought I knew, so I could use the cheap little 3.7v box mod I won in a contest. Which, just so you know, totally rocks with 1.5Ω 306 dripping atty! Looky! I gots big clouds! Looky! I'm vaping 9 watts with this puppy! And how do I know? OMG! I just did math!
Now we really get into personal opinion. I have a problem with "Variable Wattage." Not the devices labeled with that function, but the label itself. It's a fine distinction, but a lot of arguments have arisen from this misnomer. Watts are the end result. Pay attention! You cannot use the end result to determine what will create it. When a person uses a "Variable Wattage" device, they set how many watts they want the device to produce, they are not setting the wattage. I said it was a fine distinction, but there are some people who can't seem to grasp that a "Variable Voltage" device is also a "Variable Wattage" device, and so is a Spinner and so is a standard eGo if you change the resistance of the atomizer.
If you watch old videos of Brandon Ward from Evolv back when the Darwin and Kick were first introduced, you'll notice he doesn’t use the term "Variable Wattage," instead he refers to the operation as "Power Regulation." With Power Regulation, the power level is set to determine the amount of watts to produce, as opposed to Voltage Regulation where the voltage is set to determine the amount of watts to be produced. They are just different systems to regulate the production of heat.
I don’t know how the devices ended up being called "Variable Wattage," but my guess is it came from China, since in early reviews of Chinese mods Phil Busardo remarks that they should actually be called "Variable Power;" and we all know how slow the Chinese are to figure out the vaping vernacular.
Yes, I’m a picky details freak, but I dislike reading heated [pun] debates based on a misunderstanding. For the record, I have all sorts of devices and no opinion of which system is better – and most certainly not which is best. There is no best. I wish ECF blocked that word, so there wouldn’t be so many “What’s the best xxx?” threads, which I skip for the most part.
When finished, my Power With Kitties! blog won’t be so complicated. I plan on a simple overview of how watts are produced and what that means to the average vaper. It will have some scary math equations in it, but only after the basic concepts are clear and using them will be optional.
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Hi Ocey, I think I can clear this one up for you, it's not as bad as it seems. I hope I'm understanding the confusion correctly, but there's two things that always cause problems:
1) The correct use of power, watts, energy, and power over a given time
2) The odd terminolgy that is used to describe how we control devices. (note the emphasis)
The first one is a confusion simply in terminology and the difference between popular usage, and what they really mean in the technical and scientific world. People think that what comes into their homes via aluminium cable is called "power", and this is often perpetuated when we receive our "power bill" or talk about he high cost of "power". This popular usage is incorrect, we should really be talking about energy, however if you ask someone how much their energy bill is, they will usually look at you as though you are mad (I could be wrong in this, in some parts of the world they may actually use the correct terminology, and certainly the "energy" providers are trying to negate this because it usually says "electricity bill" at the top.
Watts is actually the correct measure of "power", and is an SI unit specifically for power. Maybe the old wikipedia can explain it better than I can:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watt#Confusion_of_watts.2C_watt-hours_and_watts_per_hour
so, "watts" is the correct designation for power. Energy is watt-seconds, or joules, which is often given as kWh on your energy bill. One kilowatt-hour is 3,600,000 watt-seconds (or joules) or 3.6 MJ.
There is absolutely no problem talking about the power going through the atomiser coil as being (for eg) 8 watts. It's a "rate of work", not a measure of energy consumed which would required total time to be take into account.
I think this is covered in the first part. Watts is the correct measurement of "power". There is no other designation that I know of except perhaps for kg/m2 or perhaps horsepower, neither of which really lend themselves well to our application. We can talk about "power" but if we want to quantify it the only meaningful unit is watts.
The second part comes from the confusing issue that the device is variable in as much as we can vary the output, however the purpose of the device is to then maintain that exact output - a constant output whether it be volts or watts that is set. I don't think this is your issue. Consider this though (just to confuse the issue). An unregulated mod like a mechanical could technically be called a "variable voltage" device because the voltage does indeed vary. We don't have control over that variation however, so that name is not used.
I'm not the one confused, I meant the people I'm writing for. 
And I think you just proved my point. You are a sweet, sweetie, but except for the most steadfast, you lost your Brand New to Vaping audience around "Aluminum cable."
What novices tend to ask about most in this area is, "What does variable voltage mean?" They may ask about variable wattage, because they have seen the term, but if they are looking to get a Twist or Spinner, I don't go into it deeply because they won't be using it. If the person is considering a Vamo, of course the information I relate will change. In either case, if the person is just transitioning into vaping and may have never heard these words before, I barely touch on amps. Why would I? It makes no difference to them at this point and only muddies the water. Don't even get me started on joules.
My target reader is a person who is thinking about their first variable device because it was suggested to them, but they don't understand what it means or how it will affect their vaping experience. If they know what a joule is, they shouldn't be reading my blog.
ETA: And to clarify what I perhaps didn't explain well (since I didn't have kitties): watts are the end result. In the vaping world, watts correspond to heat. In a voltage regulated device the user sets the voltage, in accordance with the resistance, to produce a specific amount of heat. In a power regulated device the user sets whatever less confusing name we shall call the function to produce a specific amount of heat, irrespective of the resistance. The device measures the resistance and adjusts the voltage to produce the specific amount of heat it was set for. In either case, it is the voltage being changed, the difference is in how it is changed.
One can set the level of heat they want to be produced, but they cannot set the heat to adjust the voltage that will create it.
I think you will better understand my point when you see the kitties.
And I think you just proved my point. You are a sweet, sweetie, but except for the most steadfast, you lost your Brand New to Vaping audience around "Aluminum cable."What novices tend to ask about most in this area is, "What does variable voltage mean?" They may ask about variable wattage, because they have seen the term, but if they are looking to get a Twist or Spinner, I don't go into it deeply because they won't be using it. If the person is considering a Vamo, of course the information I relate will change. In either case, if the person is just transitioning into vaping and may have never heard these words before, I barely touch on amps. Why would I? It makes no difference to them at this point and only muddies the water. Don't even get me started on joules.
My target reader is a person who is thinking about their first variable device because it was suggested to them, but they don't understand what it means or how it will affect their vaping experience. If they know what a joule is, they shouldn't be reading my blog.
ETA: And to clarify what I perhaps didn't explain well (since I didn't have kitties): watts are the end result. In the vaping world, watts correspond to heat. In a voltage regulated device the user sets the voltage, in accordance with the resistance, to produce a specific amount of heat. In a power regulated device the user sets whatever less confusing name we shall call the function to produce a specific amount of heat, irrespective of the resistance. The device measures the resistance and adjusts the voltage to produce the specific amount of heat it was set for. In either case, it is the voltage being changed, the difference is in how it is changed.
One can set the level of heat they want to be produced, but they cannot set the heat to adjust the voltage that will create it.
I think you will better understand my point when you see the kitties.
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Same experience here with Efests. I always use AW IMR, but when ordering batteries for my daughter's new mod setup, I decided to give some Efests a shot in 18350 size. I put them in a rotation with my AWs, and for a couple of weeks they appeared to be similar. But after only a couple of weeks, the charge time had fallen down to two hours, compared to 6 hours for the AW's. They are in a drawer now for a rainy day or the Zombie Apocolypse. My daughter's 14500 Efest batteries were the same. I had to give her my AW 14500's.
I know Efests have a "decent" reputation, but from my experience I have a hard time recommending them to anyone. To me they are no better than Trustfires.
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Watts all this talk about I=MC² ?
It starts with the Hydrocopic Marzel Vanes engaging the Panametric Fam, thus capacitive reluctance is produced.
This action is reduced by the reciprocating dingle arm.
The end result is a massive reduction in sinusoidal depleneration, thus the term Low State of Charge is indicated.
If the above seems confusing, try explaining electrical theory to a anyone without some formal introduction to electronics and electrical theory, taking into consideration we are powering a heating element with a pre-set resistance COLD.
When heated resistance varies due to the introduction of e-fluid which cools the coil, and airflow also effects this, and continually fluctuates.
When all is said and done I lean towards what Ocelot has said:
We are getting way off base regarding what many have been asking, and the answers we give seem to them as the what is written in bold above.
Or better yet lets just start answering some of these peoples questions in Greek, Russian, or Chinese with the appropriate Cyrillic text displayed!
The point here is our answers to many new people should employ the KISS method:
Keep it Simple Stupid!
It starts with the Hydrocopic Marzel Vanes engaging the Panametric Fam, thus capacitive reluctance is produced.
This action is reduced by the reciprocating dingle arm.
The end result is a massive reduction in sinusoidal depleneration, thus the term Low State of Charge is indicated.
If the above seems confusing, try explaining electrical theory to a anyone without some formal introduction to electronics and electrical theory, taking into consideration we are powering a heating element with a pre-set resistance COLD.
When heated resistance varies due to the introduction of e-fluid which cools the coil, and airflow also effects this, and continually fluctuates.
When all is said and done I lean towards what Ocelot has said:
We are getting way off base regarding what many have been asking, and the answers we give seem to them as the what is written in bold above.
Or better yet lets just start answering some of these peoples questions in Greek, Russian, or Chinese with the appropriate Cyrillic text displayed!
The point here is our answers to many new people should employ the KISS method:
Keep it Simple Stupid!
The point here is our answers to many new people should employ the KISS method:
Keep it Simple Stupid!
Considering the many detailed posts by rocket scientists, I was a bit miffed a few months back when no one got my lame joke.
Reflections on the Demotivating Power of Heat
Thomson, W. (1824) Diary Whilst on Holiday with Kel, My Cat
Reflections on the Demotivating Power of Heat
Thomson, W. (1824) Diary Whilst on Holiday with Kel, My Cat
I'm not the one confused, I meant the people I'm writing for.
Nicest rebuttal I've had all year.
I agree in principle, keep it simple however I don't think that necessarily means talking about variable power instead of variable watts. Does it make it any more intuitive for the newcomer? There's no electrical unit "power", as soon as they need to come to any sort of understanding the SI unit "watts" come into play.Agree completely. Yes, this topic is way more complicated that the OP question called for, but heck, it was already complicated. I just don't agree we should dumb it down to the point where we are using an abstract concept (power) when a quantifiable one (watts) is already correctly in use.
I guess I'm not seeing the difficult part here, or at least the bit that makes it more complicated than it has to be. The word "watts" is always going to come up soon rather than later.
Yes, but the VW user doesn't need to know the voltage, anymore than any new user needs to know the current that is being used. In this respect a new user with a VW device just needs to know how to set the "end result" as you so neatly put it. It doesn't matter whether they understand the concept of watts, or just think of it as a scale from 3 to 15 or whatever they have available.
Your point is well taken though, perhaps I shouldn't be attempting to talk about "watts" to someone with a VV device unless they are ready for the concept.
I'll look forward to it.
@ fabricator4, you are cool and all, and I appreciate your efforts to help our new people. You obviously have a very technical mind. But even after being a vapor here for over 1.5 years, I only understood half of what you just said above. 
Maybe its because all my mods are VV and I always think in voltage and not watts, but you totally lost me.
I believe we have to keep explanations more on a laymen's understanding. I slip up a lot myself, but I try to comprehend the understanding level of each person I respond to. Vaping abbreviations and terminoly takes time to absorb, and I can often imagine the blank stares on people's faces with some of the explanations I read on here.
Maybe its because all my mods are VV and I always think in voltage and not watts, but you totally lost me.
I believe we have to keep explanations more on a laymen's understanding. I slip up a lot myself, but I try to comprehend the understanding level of each person I respond to. Vaping abbreviations and terminoly takes time to absorb, and I can often imagine the blank stares on people's faces with some of the explanations I read on here.
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@ fabricator4, you are cool and all, and I appreciate your efforts to help our new people. But even after being a vapor here for over 1.5 years, I only understood half of what you just said above.
Maybe its because all my mods are VV and I always think in voltage and not watts, but you totally lost me.
He's really smart. I don't understand half of what he says either, but he has a cool dog.
Nicest rebuttal I've had all year.
My rant about variable wattage vs. variable power was just me rawring, I'm not including any of that in my new vaper info. They are just going to get the very basics. One kitty blows up a balloon, the other kitty squeezes it.
@ fabricator4, you are cool and all, and I appreciate your efforts to help our new people. But even after being a vapor here for over 1.5 years, I only understood half of what you just said above.
Maybe its because all my mods are VV and I always think in voltage and not watts, but you totally lost me.
I believe we have to keep explainations more on a laymen's understanding. I slip up a lot myself, but I try to comprehend the understanding level of each person I respond to. Vaping abbreviations and terminoly takes time to absorb, and I can often imagine the blank stares on people's faces with some of the explanations I read on here.
Are you talking about my discussion about terminology, or my reply to The Ocelot? If the latter, I'm confused. If the former, I wasn't talking about vaping, just trying to explain the terminology and why it's correct. Damn, I guess I missed the target there eh?
I think some of the stuff you write is the most understandable, for the layman. I also try to write to the level of the OP but I also don't believe in dumbing things down too much. There's as much danger of condescension as there is of writing over someones head, and neither does them full justice.
I think you're saying that I do tend to write over peoples heads. I've noticed for some people the technical explanation is best, but others don't have the background, but they are usually pretty easy to spot. I'll take the criticism on board and try to do better.
Are you talking about my discussion about terminology, or my reply to The Ocelot? If the latter, I'm confused. If the former, I wasn't talking about vaping, just trying to explain the terminology and why it's correct. Damn, I guess I missed the target there eh?
I think some of the stuff you write is the most understandable, for the layman. I also try to write to the level of the OP but I also don't believe in dumbing things down too much. There's as much danger of condescension as there is of writing over someones head, and neither does them full justice.
I think you're saying that I do tend to write over peoples heads. I've noticed for some people the technical explanation is best, but others don't have the background, but they are usually pretty easy to spot. I'll take the criticism on board and try to do better.
Your posts are terrific! We are writing for two different audiences. You write for the people who want a technical explanation that I would just frustrate and I write for people like me who don't have the background to understand most of what you're saying.
Maybe I missed something but the OP included a bit of information that said his voltmeter read 3.73v but the Provari wouldn't fire using a 1.5 ohm atty. Unloaded and loaded voltages vary wildly depending on the battery. I suppose that this same battery would perform poorly in a flashlight, too.
He didn't say what the voltage reading was when using the Provari menu selection to read it. I'm thinking that it should have been blinking at some point and there was no mention of that, just dead and no vape.
I'm prescribing new IMR batteries. Didn't he also say these were Li-ion (which will work, but have much lower performance at high current loads)?
He didn't say what the voltage reading was when using the Provari menu selection to read it. I'm thinking that it should have been blinking at some point and there was no mention of that, just dead and no vape.
I'm prescribing new IMR batteries. Didn't he also say these were Li-ion (which will work, but have much lower performance at high current loads)?
He wasn't using a volt meter. The 3.7v reading was what showed when he put the battery in his Xtar charger.
ETA: While he didn't say how he set it up, if you turn the LED off on the ProVari it won't blink when the battery gets low.
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