Why is WTA such a controversial subject?

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Faylool

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Research the making of "Makla ". There is supposedly some good things to say about their tobacco choice re low " bad things" but strong good things. It sold as chew but I pouch it and put it under my top back lip. It uses edible lime mainly as the thing that makes your mouth absorb the goodies. Not for making WTA. But if you research it you might find out what tobacco they do use and how it's dried and all that

I spent a few hours last night trying to find stains of tobacco with high alkaloid content and low nitrosamine content. They don't really have it arranged that way. Does anyone knows where this info could be reasonably found? The closest thing I saw was on a seed sellers website with nicotine ratings.
 

DVap

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Though I've been fairly clear (I think) in defining what WTA is, I'll make a comment here about what is isn't.

With the likelihood of more vendors jumping on the WTA bandwagon as time goes by, the one certain thing their products will have in common is that they will be marketed as "WTA" liquids.

WTA is produced via the extraction of tobacco leaf. Sooner or later some enterprising vendor may decide that this is all too much bother and get their hands on some of the minor alkaloids to add to nicotine in whatever proportion they think might turn a snappy dollar. This is certainly not WTA, it is not an extraction of a natural material, it is a drug.

The distinction might be missed if we're not careful. Working with a natural starting material is one thing; concocting a product from chemical bottles is quite another.

To anybody out there who might consider this shortcut, you will not find a friend in me.
 

RT88

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Thank you DVap, i'm not familiar with what you do but i'd like to know the difference between NET and WTA. If whole tobacco is used in NETs, but by some process all the nicotine, alkaloids, etc. is removed, then it was just for the flavors?

Then WTA is also whole tobacco, but by a different process you can retain the alkaloids and also the nicotine (which may be an alkaloid i don't know)...? you know the active stuff in green that's used for um medical are also alkaloids
 

unloaded

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Ordered some of the unflavored from WC. Will be my first experience with WTA's. I've been smoke free for over two years but the last six months or so vaping hasn't been as satisfying at times. I've been bouncing my nic levels across the board, from 6mg to 40mg and everywhere in between. Something just seems to be missing at times no matter what I do. The only reason I haven't tried WTA's before is because the flavor descriptions I've read pretty much kept me away. Don't much care for China tobaccos, fruity or dessert vapes. Was afraid I'd love the sensation of the WTA and hate the juice so I decided to stick with the few flavors I like. I can do unflavored and I times I actually prefer it. Not crazy about 100% VG but I can deal with that too. Anyway, I'm pretty excited to get this stuff in and give it a try. Glad this thread came up, I'd about given up on unflavored WTA.
 

DVap

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Alkaloids, which are generally plant produced organic compounds containing basic nitrogen, cover a quite large number of compounds. Nicotine is certainly an alkaloid.

WTA, as I define it, refers to those compounds present in whole tobacco leaf that once extracted, can exist as either water soluble salts or organic soluble bases that allow them to be recovered exclusively during the WTA production process through chemistry that is fundamentally quite simple, though much harder in practice.

I'm not quite certain when the term "NET" popped up, and I'm not really a fan of the term since I fail to see how anything is "naturally" extracted. I have always referred to this sort of operation (and will continue to refer to it) as a soak. These soaks do not target or isolate alkaloids. Instead, they tend to target tobacco flavor and aroma components with any alkaloids that might be present occurring as a low level afterthought.
 
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Mr.Mann

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The wording "naturally extracted" is merely meant to distinguish it from the existence of liquids that are "synthetically concocted." It may be stretch to call the extraction "natural," but the important part is that it is natural flavor from ET, or extracted tobacco (TE already exists and is a type of absolute that is sold by Perfumer's Apprentice). Even if there is nothing "naturally" extracted about it, it's meant to contrast the artificial counterpart--it's akin to calling cigarettes analogs and PVs e-cigarettes (which also doesn't make any sense).

I get it, but the term "tobacco" is used in every other liquid and people wonder why their liquid tastes like corn chips--that ain't tobacco nor does it have anything to do with it, but the term "tobacco" (among a host of other artificial flavors bearing the name of their natural stunt double) is used to define some lab generated flavor based off of who knows what. I hate buying "tobacco" and tasting Fritos. (Actually, I kinda like those vapes now. haha. But it ain't tobacco)

Smoke juice (no smoke is produced.) E-Liquid (electronic liquid?) We do have a sub-forum called E-Smoking (electronic smoking sounds very hazardous.) Mod (most people don't modify their PVs.) Analog (as opposed to what? Digital vapor?) E-Cigarette (it's not an electronic cigarette, it's a battery in a metal tube with an atomizing device that produces vapor.)

As an aside, most NET vendors will tell you that their 0 mg nic (if they will even sell it as such) is more like 2 mg. That is because (as Dvap referenced) in their extraction, some nic tags along. That is not "targeted," or "isolated," but I can imagine that if nic, an alkaloid, comes along for the ride, that maybe some minor alkaloids do too. Of course, 5% of 2 mg is what, like 0.1 mg? I guess that would literally be next to nothing (and I would never call that minute amount of possible alkaloids by the acronym for which this thread is based).
 
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stefania123

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The wta without the nicotine (95%) doesn't quite seem whole to me. Like it's missing something. I kid!
I have some of the nicotineless "wta" on the way. It should be here tomorrow. I will report back late tomorrow night after I get back from work.

wta without nicotine is not wta.. 95 % of the whole alkaloid makeup.. nicotine.. is missing. ;)
 

RT88

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Thank you DVap and Mr. Mann. i'm not averse to trying WTA, i most certainly prefer NETs to synthetic or artificial flavor tobac like RY4 or absolute based. each non-NET tobac i tried i tossed. all seemed like leather chem to me, even after 30 days. NETs on the other hand taste good to me.

One thing that gives me pause about WTA is the [possible] formation of PAHs on the coil due to higher and more complex organic compounds present, but I suspect this is not the case as the coil will not turn bright orange and smoke like when i dry burn. that is certainly creating PAHs and i rinse out thoroughly after dry burns.

i still have some questions like in NET production (soak and steep) depending on the solvent, alkaloids and flavor will certainly emerge, yet they might purge these during solvent removal. WTAs seem to preserve more of them incl the nicotine. is a GC/MS run required for each batch? i review GC/MS results at work like 8260B and know they can go down to parts per billion.

You guys are pioneers and i thank you
 

snork

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Thank you DVap and Mr. Mann. i'm not averse to trying WTA, i most certainly prefer NETs to synthetic or artificial flavor tobac like RY4 or absolute based. each non-NET tobac i tried i tossed. all seemed like leather chem to me, even after 30 days. NETs on the other hand taste good to me.

One thing that gives me pause about WTA is the [possible] formation of PAHs on the coil due to higher and more complex organic compounds present, but I suspect this is not the case as the coil will not turn bright orange and smoke like when i dry burn. that is certainly creating PAHs and i rinse out thoroughly after dry burns.

i still have some questions like in NET production (soak and steep) depending on the solvent, alkaloids and flavor will certainly emerge, yet they might purge these during solvent removal. WTAs seem to preserve more of them incl the nicotine. is a GC/MS run required for each batch? i review GC/MS results at work like 8260B and know they can go down to parts per billion.

You guys are pioneers and i thank you
I think it's interesting that WTA gives you pause in regards to possible PAHs when the flavor, the inevitable coil buildup while vaping NETs is the result of a mishmosh of organic material being exposed to heat. The WTA juices I vape vaporize among the cleanest I've ever tried.
 

Berylanna

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One thing that gives me pause about WTA is the [possible] formation of PAHs on the coil due to higher and more complex organic compounds present, but I suspect this is not the case as the coil will not turn bright orange and smoke like when i dry burn. that is certainly creating PAHs and i rinse out thoroughly after dry burns.

PAH's? Wuzzat?

And I see no reason to try WTAs unless you are finding yourself at risk for going back to combustibles. (And if flavor is the issue, I assume you've long-since migrated to cheesecloth wicks?)

As for complex compounds, I don't think anything gunks things up faster than caramel/sugar/milk flavorings.
 

Mr.Mann

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I think it's interesting that WTA gives you pause in regards to possible PAHs when the flavor, the inevitable coil buildup while vaping NETs is the result of a mishmosh of organic material being exposed to heat. The WTA juices I vape vaporize among the cleanest I've ever tried.

Can't argue with that. Well stated.
 
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