Why is WTA such a controversial subject?

[snork]

why is WTA required for some smokers to get off cigarettes? does it give an instant nicotine hit/buzz like real cigarettes? I know that regular juices take a minute or two for the nicotine to really get in the system. is WTA vapeable by itself or does it need to be added with PG/VG?

It isn't required by anybody but it may help some people. Results vary both in terms of effect and effectiveness. I've never gotten a buzz, others do.
WTA is not vapeable by itself! It is pure nicotine and pure tobacco alkaloids, at that concentration it would kill you. It needs to be diluted many times over.

 

[Berylanna]

It isn't required by anybody but it may help some people. Results vary both in terms of effect and effectiveness. I've never gotten a buzz, others do.
WTA is not vapeable by itself! It is pure nicotine and pure tobacco alkaloids, at that concentration it would kill you. It needs to be diluted many times over.

I need WTA-containing e-liquid to stay (mostly) off stinkies. That's 'required' in my world. My doctor wasn't surprised. I can be kind-of slow-depressed and yet anxious at the same time, and she said that fits the profile of someone who needs both nicotine and one of the other alkaloids, I forget which one.

As to dilution, that goes for DIY supplies, but by the time I buy e-liquid, whether WTA-containing or not, it is already at vaping strength. (Not counting my Dread of Deeming stash, but I haven't got the gloves, apron, goggles, and clean room set up for that yet.) And I have not seen WTA available in even 30-ml bottles at vaping strength let alone 1/2 liter at raw-materials strength.

 

[snork]

I set up my Dread of Deeming stash last week!

 

[Mr.Mann]

And I have not seen WTA available in even 30-ml bottles at vaping strength let alone 1/2 liter at raw-materials strength.

I recently bought a 30 mL of WTA unflavored. As for the raw-strength? One thing I truly am knowledgeable about is the notion that I wouldn't go near raw WTA.

 

[DVap]

I hear you, or rather, I see your point. I do find it funny that when crafting a phrase, which may get repeated so many times that it'll inevitably be shortened to an acronym, it seems that certain acronyms/phrases just sound better than others (so much so that the phrase may need to be re-thought, just for the acronym's sake). I have a thread called Regular Atty Drippers (A Dying Breed?) and I had the mods change it from what I originally entitled it, Standard Atty Drippers (A Dying Breed?), because I figured, I wouldn't want anyone referring to us that vape that way (if the phrase caught on) as SAD (standard atty drippers). LOL

Speaking of vaping, I sure would love to ask you, Dvap, some questions--what type of device/atomizer do you use, and especially, what flavors do you gravitate toward? Do you still vape? A friend asked me the other night if I knew what you vaped and the funny thing is, I sometimes forget that at the end of the day, you were/are a vaper like the rest of us, not just Mr. Wizard (haha). Yes, you definitely have provided a wealth (for real) of scientific information/discovery on this forum (I read it all the time), but sometimes the simple stuff, from a person like you, can be fascinating (and it can be normalizing for those people that are too intimidated to even talk to you).

If you get a second to answer, that would be cool, if not, that's cool too.

I'm not too much an equipment geek, give me anything that will produce 4.2 volts on a 2 ohm atty and I'm happy. I've never been a flavor vaper, plain old nicotine at 12 mg in mostly VG is fine for me. Not too flavorful, but I'm happy enough.

I've had some considerable stress in the past couple years, analogs creeping in, etc. Sometimes vaping can be a pain in the .... the mods get prettier, but really it's all a rehash of the same old same old.

 

[Mr.Mann]

I'm not too much an equipment geek, give me anything that will produce 4.2 volts on a 2 ohm atty and I'm happy. I've never been a flavor vaper, plain old nicotine at 12 mg in mostly VG is fine for me. Not too flavorful, but I'm happy enough.

I've had some considerable stress in the past couple years, analogs creeping in, etc. Sometimes vaping can be a pain in the .... the mods get prettier, but really it's all a rehash of the same old same old.

Yes. Vaping can be a pain in the ...! Most of the time when it gets like that for me, I just back away for a second. It seems to me that when things go awry, the more the issue gets forced the more the issue persists.

 

[stefania123]

i will always love the Aroma wta tobacco blends... but due to lack of stock recently i tried at the behest of others the WholeCig non flavored vg wta.. and it is pretty great

 

[radiokaos]

the mods get prettier, but really it's all a rehash of the same old same old.

I'm not too sure about this old mod....getting prettier.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Is there any reason why an Optipore can't be used in the production of WTA to minimize the possibility of any TSNAs? I don't really know jack squat about it, but from what I can tell, it would seem to be promising. Now, there are a couple things that weird me out, which is why I am not posting a link, but even still, if anyone here (ahem, Dvap) can explain the possible benefits, drawbacks, hurdles or anything else with using this product, I would appreciated it.

 

[DVap]

Is there any reason why an Optipore can't be used in the production of WTA to minimize the possibility of any TSNAs? I don't really know jack squat about it, but from what I can tell, it would seem to be promising. Now, there are a couple things that weird me out, which is why I am not posting a link, but even still, if anyone here (ahem, Dvap) can explain the possible benefits, drawbacks, hurdles or anything else with using this product, I would appreciated it.

I've never worked with the stuff, so I can't really say. I'm a bit hesitant about anything I've got to Google to find out about.

 

[snork]

Y'all better watch out, I'm going into biz.

 

[Mr.Mann]

I've never worked with the stuff, so I can't really say. I'm a bit hesitant about anything I've got to Google to find out about.

I saw this right here:

Methods and apparatus for the selective removal of constituents from aqueous tobacco extracts

What was strange was who was the assignee (PM). That said, the product is made by Dowex and not Willy Wonka.

 

[DVap]

I saw this right here:

Methods and apparatus for the selective removal of constituents from aqueous tobacco extracts

What was strange was who was the assignee (PM). That said, the product is made by Dowex and not Willy Wonka.

Interesting enough in an "on down the road" sort of way.

 

[Mr.Mann]

I hope this isn't a silly question, but, can the usage of a product in a specific manner be patented? Am I reading that patent application (I think that's what it is) correctly? [Found the answer. See post 196 below]

Anyway, I thought it was interesting if anything.

 

[VaporMizer]

Here is every thought, memo, experiment, or project the tobacco industry ever had on Reduction of Tobacco Specific Nitrosamines:

http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/acti...&c=mg&c=mm&c=pm&c=py&c=rj&c=re&c=ti&c=ub&c=us

This UCSF Library Tobacco Archives is a great resource.

Edit: simply adding antioxidants to the filler can result in an up to 40% reduction in TSNAs....supercritical fluid extraction can get rid of 100%.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Here is every thought, memo, experiment, or project the tobacco industry ever had on Reduction of Tobacco Specific Nitrosamines:

Legacy Tobacco Documents Library : Basic Search

This UCSF Library Tobacco Archives is a great resource.

And who says they don't care? J/K Jeez-us Jiminy they're some busy bees.

Oh, and I think I am reading this correctly, but I gather that a patent can be obtained for: anyone who “invents or discovers any new and useful process, machine, manufacture, or composition of matter, or any new and useful improvement thereof,may obtain a patent,” subject to the conditions and requirements of the law. The word “process” is defined by law as a process, act or method, and primarily includes industrial or technical processes. United States Patent and Trademark Office


(I won't tell if you won't tell)

 

[tnt56]

Ok I admit I may be posting this out of context. I've gotten lost in some if the post and threads.
Aroma is absolutely the most caring vendor I've ever had the pleasure of dealing with. Who else will take the time to check in with another vapor and see if their ok or not.
I'll say it again. AROMA ROCKS.
Keep up the great work Jerry. And also Miss Chris. The best folks ever.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Dvap, if you're able to and wouldn't mind, could you explain why there was a time when you were "not a fan of nornicotine." (Though I am not sure if this is still the case, or even if what I read was meant to be taken literally.)

From what I understand, nornicotine and cotinine are both minor/secondary alkaloids and metabolites of nicotine, but nornictoine is in a fairly high percentage of the famous "5%". I am finding conflicting information about whether nornicotine even has any MAOI effects--most of what I can tell is that it mostly "acts" like nic. I guess what I am asking is that if nornicotine is a "major" minor alkaloid, but it doesn't seem to be all that impressive for the part that we're looking for when vaping WTA, is its presence needed? Or is this the scenario where isolating a specific alkaloid would be too prohibitive and just not worth the hassle? Then again, I guess it wouldn't be "whole" without nornicotine.

I hate to be apologizing for my lack of understanding, but forgive me if I am assuming way too much or am off track in my line of thinking. I am just trying to understand what I can.

 

[Berylanna]

i will always love the Aroma wta tobacco blends... but due to lack of stock recently i tried at the behest of others the WholeCig non flavored vg wta.. and it is pretty great

OK, thinking about Dread of Deeming again, and the fact that AEMSA has met with the FDA and provided them with their standard....

How long does WTA e-liquid keep? On the shelf? In a cool room like the garage? (Closed-wall, cement floor, makes it more like 65 degrees in winter, and there are parts that stay under 75 in summer if they are on the north side and on the floor)? Refrigerated?
Frozen? Someone on another thread HAS studied how long regular nicotine e-liquid keeps and it seems like at least a year or two in a very cool room. But WTA?

My Dad would roll over in his grave if I put toxic liquids in the same storage as foods, he'd seen a few too many lab accidents in his day. One fatal one had to do with confusing milk with a lab liquid. But I don't want to spend $100's a year to keep either WTA or regular e-liquids cold. At that point I might just hope that Tropical BoB's idea for vaping snus would work. (Since the snus remains in the cartridge in place of the usual polyfil, I'm assuming I'd get more nic and WTA's than the wimpy amounts we'd get by putting a piece of cigar in pg overnight.)

 

[Mr.Mann]

OK, thinking about Dread of Deeming again, and the fact that AEMSA has met with the FDA and provided them with their standard....

How long does WTA e-liquid keep? On the shelf? In a cool room like the garage? (Closed-wall, cement floor, makes it more like 65 degrees in winter, and there are parts that stay under 75 in summer if they are on the north side and on the floor)? Refrigerated?
Frozen? Someone on another thread HAS studied how long regular nicotine e-liquid keeps and it seems like at least a year or two in a very cool room. But WTA?

My Dad would roll over in his grave if I put toxic liquids in the same storage as foods, he'd seen a few too many lab accidents in his day. One fatal one had to do with confusing milk with a lab liquid. But I don't want to spend $100's a year to keep either WTA or regular e-liquids cold. At that point I might just hope that Tropical BoB's idea for vaping snus would work. (Since the snus remains in the cartridge in place of the usual polyfil, I'm assuming I'd get more nic and WTA's than the wimpy amounts we'd get by putting a piece of cigar in pg overnight.)

While I am not certain, I was under the impression that it "keeps" the same as regular nic-liquid. As you know--air, light, fluctuating temperatures (in extremes) are the enemy of long-term storage of nic liquid, so I gather it's no different with WTA.

I prefer glass for all medium to long term storage (amber is best, but I have a thing for blue cobalt).

I am moving soon and am getting a small apartment fridge for the basement (to be set at about 55 degrees for long term storage of premixed liquids..unless I find out there is a better way/temp).