Why Johnsons Creek clogs atomizers

[TropicalBob]

A difference might be -- might be -- that PG is actually healthier in that it can destroy some bacteria and viruses. That's what the World War II testing found and the Health New Zealand report cites. NonPG likely wouldn't have that benefit. For that reason alone, I will continue to use PG liquid and flavorings.

 

[CalPilot89]

So do you think keeping VG mixes in the refrigerator would be a good idea?

 

[CalPilot89]

Ok I take it back. I loaded a fresh cart of the JC Peach Cobbler VG into my dsc 901b and it is producing the same amount of vapor as the PG stuff IMHO. These 901b's are a powerhouse of vapor!

 

[Bertrand]

I have some great news. I don't know why I missed it - probably because I was coming at this from a different angle - but the NZ research *did* test for PO in the Ruyan vapour, and it was below 25 ppb in a 38 mL extraction. Unfortunately the test equipment used in this research couldn't handle the vapour from a 60mL extraction (which is established as a "usual" drag of a cigarette) and e-cigarette users tend to have longer draws than cigarette smokers. But...

According to the MDSS, while there is no established "safe" level, 20 ppm over 8 hour shift is the usual accepted exposure level. This is three orders of magnitude more than what was possibly in the 38mL puff.

I will get a back of an envelope and figure out a reasonable estimate for the upper bound conversion to ppm in 38mL of the 100ng found in the PG-laced cigarettes. There are a number of problems in this: we are comparing puffs to entire cigarettes of unspecified weight, and differing PG concentrations - hence the upper bound. I doubt it will be anything near 20 ppm, though.

While it's possible, I doubt e-liquid manufacturers get their PG from a dodgier source than cigarette companies.

I apologize for causing unnecessary concern.

 

[Kate]

Lets hope Ruyan isn't the only eliquid that uses 'safe' propylene glycol.

 

[Bertrand]

I smoked a cigarette, and it took 12 puffs. Assuming 60mL per puff, that's 720mL.

According to the ideal gas law, at 25C and 1atm there are 0.72/24.45 mol in there.

The molecular mass of PO is ~58g / mol, so for 100ng that works out at 1.72e-9 mol, so 58.5 ppb in the 100ng cigarette.

The lowest PG content in the cigarettes was 1.7%, and making the worst case scenario assumption that this is the one with 100ng, the usual e-liquid has ~40 times this.

So assuming you get the same amount of vapour weight by weight in the e-cigarette as the regular cigarette (w/w) we should expect 2.4 ppm, which is still well below the 20 ppm threshold limit value. And I think this is a worst case scenario in which the PG in the cigarette was probably tainted.

Again, I apologize for causing unnecessary concern, and please correct me if I have miscalculated anything.

 

[Bertrand]

Lets hope Ruyan isn't the only eliquid that uses 'safe' propylene glycol.

You really think cigarette companies would buy better quality additives? heheheh

 

[Kate]

I don't know about cigarette companies, they've been sued enough to know to be a bit more careful maybe. It's eliquid suppliers I'm bothered about, they haven't had any executions for murder yet as far as I know.

 

[Bertrand]

It's probably more the PG manufacturer who would be at fault than the e-liquid manufacturer. I think they have already gotten into trouble for diethylene glycol substitution. (From memory, it was only about 20% cheaper for them.. hehehe. cold.)

But yes, from those articles about dodgy manufacturers it does sound like a lot of people make these chemicals who don't really know what they're doing even if they mean no harm. I'm now pretty satisfied it's safe enough, though.

 

[Kate]

I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[Silver]

Hi all,

Just a note to say that I have not heard back from Dr. Laugesen on my last e-mail to him yet, will definitely let you know when I do.

Cheers,
Silver

 

[TropicalBob]

It's good that you raised this and saw it through, Bertrand. We have now thoroughly, and I mean thoroughly, reviewed PG and VG on this forum. For me, enough is enough. Thanks for following through on this. You did good.