True, they're not perfect. But what would the state of our food and drug supply be if the FDA didn't exist at all?
Why shouldn't the FDA interfere?
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True, they're not perfect. But what would the state of our food and drug supply be if the FDA didn't exist at all?
I just hope there will be enough intelligent people who will be able to see that rather than banning it..... which will be tantamount to condemning people to keep on smoking tobacco.......it would be far better to quality control it.
Finally, another reasonable person with a well-thought out viewpoint. Good post, Calaban. As early adopters, we are all lab rats.
I hope the long term safety of our 'habit' is, well safe. The Chinese have killed pets, infants and adults in the U.S. with their tainted products. I, for one, would like to know that what I am ingesting is relatively safe. If that means some sort of regulation, well that is fine with me.
For those of you hell bent on blaming the tobacco and pharmaceutical industries for actions against e-cigs, I think you are way off base. I sincerely doubt the conspiracy theroy. Our hobby is way too small to have any significant effect on the balance sheets of those giganitc multi-national corporations.
Like Calaban, I am using e-cigs in an off-label fashion as my own smoking cessation therapy. Definitely cheaper than Nicotrol inhalers and way more fun. These damn things are changing my life. I want to preserve our right to vape and would participate in any way to ensure we get to continue using e-cig products. Even if that means subjecting myself to further regulation.
Congratulations, Bellinghamster, for your original post. You are quite correct on all points. Well thought out and expressed.
I hope so too, but there are people out there who hate anything that looks like smoking with a passion and who regard using something like nicotine (but not caffeine for some reason) as a weakness to be eradicated. It isn't possible to have a rational discussion with these sorts and they have a nasty habit of getting into positions of power where they can impose their personal preferences on the rest of the world.
I'm ok with the camel poking its nose in the tent so long as its rear end doesn't follow and make a mess on the floor.
The FDA go the way of the $$$ for the most part. Give em enough money and you can probably get anything approved.
An exellent post. I have been failing miserably trying to say the same thing with less than stellar results. We got quite a defensive crowd out there and it seems they have yet to find this thread. Well one day soon the FDA will word it quite clearly for us all...
Lorddrek
Lorddrek
Do it yourself. Take your bottle down to your local college, not community or trade, a real college, walk into the science lab and ask them what's in it. Someone in there will take the time to find out. I have a meeting with a friend from OU tomorrow.
Sorry to disagree with you, Lorddrek - but the FDA will word nothing "quite clearly." It's a government agency, nothing is ever short, sweet, and simple....there will be a 2000 page document with very tiny print that says absolutely nothing, costs a fortune, and will turn the entire thing over to a "govenrmentally approved subcommittee" to discuss the "ramifications and/or impact to the greater good."
i'm in the dark about this stuff too and i have no idea how it all will end, but i am fairly certain of one thing.
the day a child drinks some of this liquid and gets sick, or worse, it's going to be game over.
i think it's inexcusable that all this liquid isn't in child proof packaging.
just my opinion
the day a child drinks some of this liquid and gets sick, or worse, it's going to be game over.
i think it's inexcusable that all this liquid isn't in child proof packaging.
just my opinion
I can't tell you how much I agree with this. The way the juice is currently packaged and shipped is BEGGING for a tragedy. It's been raised many times and most of the suppliers on this forum remain silent.
Kudos to JC for showing a bit of responsibility.
I agree 1000% - anyone with kids or pets should keep this locked up in a VERY secure location! Child proofing the containers will be tops on the FDA list, IMO.
most people don't have the sense to "do the right thing" until it becomes law (eg not smoking in the car with small children).
applying that to the people who make a living as suppliers, where this would also cost them money, i can totally see why most have been silent on the subject.
it always comes down to the bottom line; and some suppliers (people) are willing to make that extra dollar rather than do the right thing until uncle sam forces them to. or shuts them down. we shall see.
applying that to the people who make a living as suppliers, where this would also cost them money, i can totally see why most have been silent on the subject.
it always comes down to the bottom line; and some suppliers (people) are willing to make that extra dollar rather than do the right thing until uncle sam forces them to. or shuts them down. we shall see.
Aren't we getting just a little panicky here? I've got a little bottle of tincture of iodine which looks just like the e-juice bottles and nobody bats an eye at those (and many other poisons) being sold in that sort of packaging. Sure, making the bottles childproof is a good idea but no more so than lots of other household poisons.
strayling i see your point and i'm in total agreement with it.
the difference, in my opinion, is while the realistic risks may be the same between iodine and e-liquid when improperly consumed; this is not the logic of the average citizen nor most governing bodies.
what were dealing with in eliquid is not a run of the mill household cleanser or wound treatment, its a component to a new and generally untested controvertial product, the electronic cigarette.
so while the potential of harm may be similar to other household products, again in my opinion, its smart business to be ahead of the game rather than risk the consequences later given the situation.
the difference, in my opinion, is while the realistic risks may be the same between iodine and e-liquid when improperly consumed; this is not the logic of the average citizen nor most governing bodies.
what were dealing with in eliquid is not a run of the mill household cleanser or wound treatment, its a component to a new and generally untested controvertial product, the electronic cigarette.
so while the potential of harm may be similar to other household products, again in my opinion, its smart business to be ahead of the game rather than risk the consequences later given the situation.
Not sure on how toxic tincture of iodine is but I do know in Canada most toxic substances use proper packaging.
Here is an example: I recently got a 50ml bottle of Cash Cola in the mail. The bottle just says Coca Cola on it with no poison label or warning labels anywhere. The cap is easy access. Imagine a child comes along and sees a bottle with Coca Cola on it, decides he is going to take a drink, but being a clever child he opens and smells it. Well..it smells just like Coca Cola. One good sip and the child is dead.
I happen to know how dangerous this liquid is but there was no warnings included in the package for other parents. It boggles my mind that something so dangerous is treated so caviler. It is inevitable that children will die needlessly for the sake of a few pennies and to be honest it REALLY pisses me off. We all feign such concern over the FDA but allow suppliers on this board to skate by with irresponsible packaging.
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I see where everyone's coming from and I do agree that childproof packaging is the way to go for the liquids. I commented mainly because I see everyone getting very defensive and a siege mentality would be counter-productive IMO. We need to remember that we aren't doing anything wrong and that
Actually, I'd be more worried about a child swallowing a cartridge than drinking the liquid. That stuff tastes *nasty* as anyone who's accidentally sucked in a drop can attest and it would take a very determined person to swallow any. Carts, on the other hand, could be swallowed whole ...
Nuck, the lethal dose for iodine can be as low as 200mg so there's plenty in one of those little bottles to do serious damage. It was just the first example which sprang to mind so don't read too much into my referring to it.
Tone, I agree that a medicine cabinet is a sensible place to store liquids and carts in a house where there are children.
Elle, I get what you mean about logic going out the window. That's why presenting information calmly and rationally is our best tactic to win widespread acceptance for our hobby/habit.
Actually, I'd be more worried about a child swallowing a cartridge than drinking the liquid. That stuff tastes *nasty* as anyone who's accidentally sucked in a drop can attest and it would take a very determined person to swallow any. Carts, on the other hand, could be swallowed whole ...
Nuck, the lethal dose for iodine can be as low as 200mg so there's plenty in one of those little bottles to do serious damage. It was just the first example which sprang to mind so don't read too much into my referring to it.
Tone, I agree that a medicine cabinet is a sensible place to store liquids and carts in a house where there are children.
Elle, I get what you mean about logic going out the window. That's why presenting information calmly and rationally is our best tactic to win widespread acceptance for our hobby/habit.
It is inevitable that children will die needlessly for the sake of a few pennies and to be honest it REALLY pisses me off.
And your buying from and supporting these child killing suppliers? Sorry, but if I truely felt that way I would run as far away from this site and e-juice as I could get.
I could go on and on about what "might" kill a child this year. over 300 children die every year in swimming pool related accidents, but people still buy them (have one myself).
"in Canada most toxic substances use proper packaging."
Just last year a 2 year old little boy died from drinking nail polish remover and rubbing alcohol. Neither of those products had (and still dont have) child proof caps. You should check your bathroom. I would dare to guess that your rubbing alcohol and fingernail polish remover are not in childproof containers. I could really go on and on with this. There are many dangers lurking in and around our homes.
Nuck - I don't disagree with you about warning labels and child proof caps, just think about what you are saying. There are many toxic substances out there that we must protect ourself and our children from.
And your buying from and supporting these child killing suppliers? Sorry, but if I truely felt that way I would run as far away from this site and e-juice as I could get.
I could go on and on about what "might" kill a child this year. over 300 children die every year in swimming pool related accidents, but people still buy them (have one myself).
"in Canada most toxic substances use proper packaging."
Just last year a 2 year old little boy died from drinking nail polish remover and rubbing alcohol. Neither of those products had (and still dont have) child proof caps. You should check your bathroom. I would dare to guess that your rubbing alcohol and fingernail polish remover are not in childproof containers. I could really go on and on with this. There are many dangers lurking in and around our homes.
Nuck - I don't disagree with you about warning labels and child proof caps, just think about what you are saying. There are many toxic substances out there that we must protect ourself and our children from.
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